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View Full Version : treated lumber for raised bed garden?



Greg Stanford
04-03-2007, 10:22 AM
This is pretty off topic but there is such a knowledge base here that I hoped to get some opinions. I want to build a small raised bed garden, basicly 4 4'x6' beds, not so much for the produce (though we would be eating it) but so that my 2 yr old can have the experiance. I want to do the raised beds because it will look neater in my small back yard & hopefully I won't be doing as much weeding. I was going to use treated 2'x8's but am concerned about eating veggie's grown in contact w/ treated wood. I understand the new treatments are safer but how much safer? I don't have a source (south mississippi) for naturally resistant lumber so my options are limited.

So, if I go w/ "yellawood" will I be poisoning my family?

thanks,

g

Joe Pelonio
04-03-2007, 10:35 AM
Just Saturday or local master gardener, on his radio show, was asked that.

He said not to use any treated lumber for produce to be eaten.

Think about the Trex or other plastic/wood material or just use cheap untreated wood and replace every 8-10 years.

Al Wasser
04-03-2007, 10:44 AM
I have used that green treated stuff in my garden w/o problem. But you might want to go to the store and ask to read the MSDS sheet, at least I think that is close to what they are called. It's the govt required disclosure of of the hazards involved in a given product. Alternative wood would be redwood, cedar (like used for fences), possibly cypress. You might also look at the "TREX" type stuff, but I understand it is pricey.

Greg Cole
04-03-2007, 10:49 AM
Greg,
No cedar at the 'borgs in your neck of the USA? Naturally rot resistant and all that without the chemicals etc....

Just another option from one Greg to another...

Greg

Fred Voorhees
04-03-2007, 10:50 AM
I have used that green treated stuff in my garden w/o problem. But you might want to go to the store and ask to read the MSDS sheet, at least I think that is close to what they are called. It's the govt required disclosure of of the hazards involved in a given product. Alternative wood would be redwood, cedar (like used for fences), possibly cypress. You might also look at the "TREX" type stuff, but I understand it is pricey.
MSDS is the correct set of letters Al. They stand for Material Safety Data Sheet. I would definitely NOT use any kind of pressure treated wood for lining a raised bed garden area.

Anthony Anderson
04-03-2007, 11:07 AM
Greg, If I remember correctly, I used cedar, or just some garden timbers sold at the local borg. Not treated, as others have said, I would not take any chances. I have noticed recently that composite "garden timbers" are available now. Rot resistant and you shouldn't have to worry about chemicals. Regards, Bill

Dennis Peacock
04-03-2007, 11:08 AM
Use "cap-block" type concrete blocks for lining the raised bed. Line the inside with black plastic for weed control and to help contain just the soil for your garden. To make the outside part of the concrete blocks look more "landscapy appealing"...line with small low growing flowers, or decorate as you see fit. Use rebar to help keep the blocks from moving during the gardening season. Just thought I'd toss out an idea or two. ;)

jeremy levine
04-03-2007, 11:38 AM
They are a wealth of information about the composition of a given finish.
Such as what oil is in it (soya, linseed,tung )

Jim Becker
04-03-2007, 5:45 PM
Cedar or white oak works nice and there is no issue with having to read the MSDS...ours are cedar and have been in for 6 years. They aren't in "great" shape, but I suspect they will work for a few more years before they need replaced.

Robert Mickley
04-04-2007, 7:47 AM
Find a sawmill, get locust. you won't be replacing them in your lifetime. Theres locust posts here on cousins farm that are over 80 years old and still strong

Besides most of the green lumber in the borg isn't rated for ground contact.

Greg Stanford
04-04-2007, 7:52 AM
Thanks everybody, that's pretty much what I'd thought. It's really not easy to find much of anything besides pine down here right now, we're still largely in post Katrina mode -- my favorite lumber yard was on back bay, I think there's a slab there still. So it goes. What are your thoughts on using treated lumber for a play set (swings, slide, treehouse . . ) that's another project slated for this summer.

Thanks again, you guys are great.

g

Cliff Rohrabacher
04-04-2007, 8:29 AM
Treated lumber - even the old copper & lead arsenate stuff - isn't harmful and won't be systemically available to plantlife. The molecules are too big to be taken up by plants, and the leachate is too insiginificant.

From what I understand you needed to eat the freshly teated boards top get any toxis effect Now however the yuppies and soccer moms have successfully raised a hue and cry about lead and the treaters have eliminated that from the PT treatment.

Next it'll be the brass castings we have for water faucetts. Yes they want them to be made from a different alloy.

Al Wasser
04-04-2007, 10:48 AM
Cliff, you are right. We find things to worry about. When I am not gardening, working withwood, investing, I go fishing. My Dan Baily catalog, where the flies are shown, notes that the state of Calif. has found something there to be a cancer causing agent. I still scratch what hair I have left about how a fishing fly can cause cancer -- maybe if you eat enough of them?:confused:

Greg Cole
04-04-2007, 11:07 AM
Al I am guessing the process of preserving the fur etc is what is harmful in "flies".
I tied alot of flies when I was living in New England and was always slightly amazed by the squirrel tails and other odd ball part n pieces of animals attached to the hair-fur-feathers.
Back on track, PT lumber is all but harmless unless you eat it shortly after the pressure treating or breathe the dust....

Greg

Jeffrey Fusaro
04-04-2007, 11:18 AM
greg stanford--

PM sent.

Art Mulder
04-04-2007, 12:38 PM
I have used that green treated stuff in my garden w/o problem. But you might want to go to the store and ask to read the MSDS sheet, at least I think that is close to what they are called. It's the govt required disclosure of of the hazards involved in a given product. Alternative wood would be redwood, cedar (like used for fences), possibly cypress. You might also look at the "TREX" type stuff, but I understand it is pricey.

Al,

Just a small suggestion: "... It's the govt required disclosure of of the hazards that they know about involved in a given product. ..."

PT lumber in one form or another has been around for a number of years. But the formulation has changed at least once, if not twice, because they learned something new about the existing product that uncovered new hazards.

I would never put PT lumber, or creosote-impregnated railroad ties, around a garden, or in a play structure.

...art

Rob Bourgeois
04-05-2007, 10:49 PM
Safe in the wood and its been shown to leach a mimimal level only with in centimeters of the wood.. (less than a few inches). Its safe as a playset material..if you dont use wood with the green oozing material on it. Cedar down here cost almost as much as trex(not really but man it high and 4x4s are impossible to find)

Biology geek mode....The toxic material is not "biologically available" in its currrent form. HOWEVER...if you have acidic soil (pH 5 or 4) the metals become biologically available and leach further in the soil. So unless you are planting a blueberry garden with highly acidic soil.... your OK. That being said....I go the cheap route and use regular wood (pine). Treat it with BLO and it seems to keep the termites away but it will rot over time. price per year is less than PT since no doubt your wife will change the design in 4 or 5 years anyway..:p :rolleyes:

/biologist have done a study where water was dripped on PT wood adn flowed into an aquarium. The fish lived. In addition the fish were analyzed and they had no higher concentrations of metals than those fish where regular wood was dripped with water. All a bunch of hoopla. The EPA states 1 to 5 out of 1 million will develop cancer from PT wood...(you have better odds at the lotto).

Wayne Gauthier
04-06-2007, 7:18 AM
If you question the safety of PT lumber, then don't use it. I would never use PT lumber for my garden, pine lasts for about 4 years in my climate, white oak longer still and cedar would last much longer. Go with your initial thought, and use something else.

Check out organicgardening.com

John Shuk
04-07-2007, 9:22 PM
A guy I know who put in Locust fence post says that the hole will
wear out before the locust.

Jim Becker
04-07-2007, 9:42 PM
A guy I know who put in Locust fence post says that the hole will wear out before the locust.

True for the heartwood! It just keeps going...and going...and going...

A lot of the fence posts around the property I grew up with were made of locust heart...all of them are way older than me and are still there.