Domino=biscuit jointer+mortiser?

[Gregg Feldstone]

HI,
My shop is close to complete but I still don't have either a biscuit jointer or dedicated mortiser (still using the drill press). It occured to me that their combined price (good quality) can equal or exceed a Domino. Any reason I should not just get a Domino? I'm interested in craftsman style furniture; do you think a Domino will go well with the style?

[Bob Childress]

No reason at all not to. The Domino will suit that style down to the ground. :)

[Orson Carter]

Hi Gregg,

I think its safe to say that anything you want to use biscuits for, a domino will do and in most cases better. You can also do accurate through mortises with the Domino up to 56mm before you will need to clean out the center. They are fast to do and matching one side to the other is a breeze. As far as the M&T joints go, you're not limited to any particular size as you can cut your own tenons to suit and you have the option of using multiple mortises if you require. I recently bought a book featuring mainly craftsman type furniture and found that all patterns could be constructed using the Domino throughout. If you want to see this for yourself, I suggest looking at some of the latest European and Australian magazines. You will find patterns specifically using Domino joints. I've attached a picture of a base for a work bench, half finished, with all joints dominoed, but dry assembled and a picture of the finished bench. All joints are Domino.

Regards,

Orson

[Serge Pelletier]

Hi Orson,
Concerning the two pictures, are they coming from magazines? If yes, Which one?
Or did you do this bench? If yes, what king of wood did you use for the base and the top of the bench?
Thanks,
Sergy

[Art Mulder]

I've attached a picture of a base for a work bench, half finished, with all joints dominoed, but dry assembled and a picture of the finished bench. All joints are Domino.

Orson, I find it hilarious that you put a Leigh FMT on a bench built with a Domino.

Why do you want the FMT, now that you have the Domino? I know, I know, it'll do more mortise sizes.

I still find it hilarious.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

My shop is close to complete

That is blasphemy!!


Off hand I'd say you can go faster with the dommino but you don't need it.

&& It's a tad pricy just now.

I mean for $434.99 you can get a General Bench top mortiser which, I think, kicks PM's mortiser off the bench.

[Stan Thigpen]

Won't a lot of Craftsman projects use through mortises?

[Dan Forman]

It's kind of ironic that the Domino would be so well suited to the arts and crafts (craftsman) style of furniture, but idealogicaly so opposed to the what the whole movement was about, basically a celebration of hand work, and a rebellion against the mechanized, mass production techniques that were gaining popularity at that time.

Please don't read this as a condemnation of the Domino, for I am not opposed to it, in fact I'm considering getting one, just trying sort out what my own motivations are. I like the idea of doing things the traditional way, but also thinking that I have a lot of furniture to make for myself, and if anyone is likely to forget to add the length of the tenons on that last piece of highly figured stock, it would be me! I think I would be inclined to use the Domino for mission style things (lots of m+t's) , as well as chairs, stools and such, but use other techniques for for a table or other relatively simple pieces.

Dan

[Orson Carter]

Hi Art,
I hadn't seen it before, but the irony is exquisite!:D :D :D .
I bought the FMT prior to the Domino and now would not be without it. I have the luxury of walking into the shed and saying "How do you want to join timber today?"
Also, the FMT does have some flexibility that the Domino does not.

Regards,

Orson

[Greg Cole]

Dan,
You summed up my position, spot on.
Use the best tool for the job, but who's the one ultimately deciding on what's "best"? Rather subjective eh?
My decision making is almost always black & white. I've been kicking this around for awhile and might need a couple more good swift kicks before I make up my little mind.
Maybe some of the very soon posts coming to the Creek will help... until now these Domino posts have been at least fun to read. The "Smiths" sure have opinions about the "Jones" and vice-versa. Now the toys have shipped from the toy store, let's hope we get some good feedback from the toy users.


Greg

[Orson Carter]

Hi Serge,

That's my work. The frame is Douglas Fir and the top is 2x195mmx32mm red gum and the ends are American Black Walnut.

Regards,

Orson

[Rich Stevens]

I hear you, and I agree.

Here's my 5 cents worth.

I will go to the ends of the world (well, almost) for a tool which will speed up the way I work and produce perfect results.

I also smiled at the irony of an Leigh FMT being placed on the bench constructed with Dominos. I too, am guilty of such irony, as I have a Multirouter as well as Domino. The Multirouter is a fine beast, but its a pig to set up. It can take the best part of half an hour to properly position it to cut tenons - especially when mirror matching another compound joint tenon (eg chair side rails which are mirror images of each other). When set up however, the Multirouter can cut piston tight fitting tenons up to three inches long beautifully.

So I am doubling up this capability with a Domino? Absolutely not. I have now changed my approach to woodworking where joints are concerned - especially where the joints are concealed - whether it be solid wood or panel work. It is a godsend because of its alignment precision, repeatability and speed. I used to own a Lamello machine and was never quite happy with it because of constant alignment problems.

As for craftsman furniture, I can't think of a more punishing ordeal having to hand cut or machine potentially hundreds of mortises. I say, bring on the Domino.

Richard

[Orson Carter]

Hi Rich,

One of the things I've found that is great about the Domino, is that it essentially digs holes to any size you want (within limits) and doesn't really care what you put in it. So on chairs, where the back leg is angled, the Domino gives great mortises to match the angle, while I can use the FMT to provide the comfort of solid tenons. Just my choice, you understand. Making Chests of drawers is simple using the domino as well, but so are most rail and stile type joints. In addition, accurate through mortises are easy as well. The two photos below show;
1. A Shaker Chest of Drawers using only Domino and Dovetail joints.
2. A through mortise produced in 65x65mm timber (so the final clearance was done with a drill, chisel and Dremel sander). The shot is taken before final clean up with the Dremel. The two pencil lines on "top" show the cut centers for the Domino. When you cut, you do one side with the centers then turn the piece round and use the same center marks. It's that simple. BTW, this through joint was the first I did, so the edges are a little ragged. After the first, you learn how far to adjust the depth of cut and they become smooth as..

Regards,

Orson

[Rich Stevens]

Orson,

Your project reminds me I have a set of Tasmanian Myrtle panels all glued up and thickness sanded for a chest of drawers I started building 5 years ago. Over the intervening period, other projects seemed to have made it onto the priority list. I must get back onto it now that I have the Domino in hand.

The chest I have in mind is pretty much like yours - Thos. Moser inspired. Very graceful, yet has presence and purpose.

I will most surely use dominos for the rails - I would have preferred the signature sliding dovetail, but it would surely be a bugger to get right for 14 of them (two per rail). Done nicely and tightly, the domino joint will be quite suitable, if not stronger.

The other thing that's got me spooked is the thought of hand cutting the half blind dovetails for the drawers...

Rich

[Gary Keedwell]

I'm a woodworker but dabble occasionally as an antique buff. The casual shopper don't know dung about joinery in general but he'll tell you he's an "expert" by pulling out the drawer and looking at the dovetails that hold it together.
As one woodworker to another....the integrity of the drawer will not be jeopardized by loose tenon joinery. As a woodworker to an uneducated customer: They'll never believe you.
Furniture people ( or those in the market and in the "know") have been looking at drawers and dovetails for literally hundreds of years. It is a sign of quality furniture, in their collective minds.
If I was selling furniture, I would think twice about throwing away my dovetail jigs and gentlemen's saws.
As a side note: I have contemplated loose (floating) tenon joinery and have seriously
thought of the domino as part of my woodworking arsenal.
Gary K.

[Orson Carter]

Hi Gary,

There's no way I would trash my DT Jigs and hand making paraphanalia. But I like the option of using different methods of working with a piece. I would usually discuss the method of construction with a client and go with their requests. Its their money. If given a choice, depending on the timber, I would probably go traditional.

Orson

[Gary Keedwell]

Hi Gary,

There's no way I would trash my DT Jigs and hand making paraphanalia. But I like the option of using different methods of working with a piece. I would usually discuss the method of construction with a client and go with their requests. Its their money. If given a choice, depending on the timber, I would probably go traditional.

Orson
Options are great, huh? Customer considerations is a big motivator. Ya gotta give them what they want.:o

Gary K.

[Bill Leung]

I had the same dilemma recently and decided to go with the mortiser (PM 701). I'm a hobbyist and am currently in the process of getting my shop set up. My decision to go with the mortiser was based on what woodworking skills I wanted to learn and incorporate into my designs. As a mechanical engineer by trade, I've noticed an evolution/maturing of my designs based on the tools I used (CAD and Machining). I can tell you that the designs I did 15 years ago look like chicken scratch compared to the solid modeling stuff that I'm turning out now. So, as you might imagine, starting off with the latest and greatest was very tempting. When I thought about it, I realized that when I look at furniture, I look at the joints because they themselves are beautiful (Dovetails, through M/T, box joints etc). I'm also a fan of modern/craftsman type furniture so hidden joinery will be spec'd often in my designs. I have been using biscuits and pocket holes and decided that adding a Mortiser would complement my shop nicely for now especially since I still need a dovetail jig and a nice router table setup. I am finding it odd that people are getting rid of some of their tools after getting the Domino because as Gary said above... options are great... and for me that was the key.

[Don Bullock]

Hi Serge,

That's my work. The frame is Douglas Fir and the top is 2x195mmx32mm red gum and the ends are American Black Walnut.

Regards,

Orson

Orson, that's a very nice bench. Thanks for sharing it with us.:D

[Gregg Feldstone]

Orson, et al

Was your through mortise produced in just two passes; one on each side? How deep can the domino go?

MY BIG QUESTION IS THIS: Woulndn't one need to square off the protruding ends of any through tennons to be truly craftsman style? It seems the "Domnios" are fairly small to be reshaping just for cosmetic accuracy; and what about much larger through tennons? .....any way to use the Domnio for this?

[Scott Taylor]

Regarding the price of the Mortiser, just wait for one of the woodworking shows to come around. Occassionally, you can find some pretty good deals. Recently, I purchased the Steel City Mortiser for $219 (brand new) at the show in Chantilly, VA. Of course there is the mail in rebate, but that's not a bad price.

I was leary of Steel City at first, but after I read a comparison review (I think American Woodworker sometime last year) I was a little more comfortable with the purchase. It was rated pretty high, not the best, but with the most features. I personnally like it over the others because of the extending side supports on BOTH sides.

[Orson Carter]

Hi Gregg,
The through mortise shown was done in as described below. The deepest cut a Domino can make is 28mm and has a width of 32mm. So as far as depth goes, anything over 56mm will require clearing the remainder using, as I did anyway a chisel and a drill (in this case it was 9mm as the work piece was 65mm square. Width and height of the mortise are really up to you. Off the shelf, the Domino will cut to a 30mm center, but it is possible to increase this, though I won't go into details here. So here's how I did it.

1. Mark up to the bottom of the proposed mortise.
2. Add 16mm to make the first cut center. Make sure you mark across the piece with a pencil and square. This will give you the center on both sides of the mortise for the first cut.
3. Measure up 32mm to reach the second cut center (16mm each side) and so on until you reach the top of mortise, marking across the piece each time.
4. Start cutting at the first center cut mark and proceed along the total width.
5. Lower the cut height by approx. 5mm and work your way back. During all cuts, it helps to use an overlap cut to erradicate any ridges due to the pendulum motion of the cutter.
6. Once you've finished, turn the piec round and just follow the center cut marks you scribed earlier.

When you have finished, you will find that the curves at the corners and very minor compared to the joint itself and can be cleaned up with a chisel or file very quickly. Below is a photo of a finished joint, which is intentionally a little rough in appearance, but has been wedged with two pieces of timber (jarrah). The joints are rock solid.

Hope this helps but I'm happy to help anyway I can.

Regards,

Orson

[Gregg Feldstone]

Very nice looking piece Orson!! Thanks for the advise, also. What kind of wood is the table made of?

[Orson Carter]

Hi Gregg,

Thank you for the kind words and I hope the info was helpful. The timber is highly figured River Red Gum. Here's a picture of the table top (all boards dominoed together) and also some more of the same lot of red gum in the front legs of a dining chair. (Mortises made with the Domino and tenons made using the Leigh FMT). This piece is really quite stunning I think. I didn't realise how beautiful it was until I had cut it, otherwise I think I would have veneered it.:(

Regards,

Orson

[Gregg Feldstone]

I really like that Red Gum. Where did you get it? Have you seen it available from online sources that will ship?