Drawer joinery using loose tenons (Domino)

[Frank Martin]

Has anybody used the Domino for drawer joinery, say out of 1/2 baltic birch ply for a dresser?
Just curious if this is a typical application or is there a concern with strength.

[Ted Miller]

Frank, Check this out:

http://festool.home.att.net/

[Mitchell Andrus]

I picked up mine on Friday. I tested a cool joint that'll do you just fine:

Mate the parts together and run a domino through both pieces at the same time. Glue and insert a domino and after it's set, cut flush. Make the domino out of a contrasting wood and it's a great looking joint.

[Jim Becker]

I believe this could be a very interesting way to create drawerboxes, particularly with "through tenons" as Mitchell describes. It's not going to be for everyone or for every project, but certainly can have its place in decorative joinery situations.

[Frank Martin]

That's great.
I will receive my copy tomorrow. I had not thought about drawer joinery when I ordered one, but this will save me lots of time with my upcoming project.

I really like the idea of using a domino in a through joint (mortise together after the corner is formed) fashion. :)

[Bob Childress]

I have seen pictures of this done (in another forum) and it looks very nice with contrasting wood. BTW, apparently making your own Dominoes from different woods for effect is pretty easy. :)

[Gary Keedwell]

I have seen pictures of this done (in another forum) and it looks very nice with contrasting wood. BTW, apparently making your own Dominoes from different woods for effect is pretty easy. :)

That sounds very interesting. that's something a bloke like me could get into.;)
Gary K.

[Frank Martin]

I have been using loose tenons since I started woodworking. Actually I have used the regular M&T only once and realized it was unnecessarily too complicated (measuring, layout, cutting, fitting, etc). After that, it has been loose tenons for me all the time. I have been using a Woodrat for the mortises and making my own tenon stock.

Domino opens up new opportunities for me because I can take the tool to the wood in a very controlled way, rather than other way around. Drawer jointery is definitely one of them.



I have seen pictures of this done (in another forum) and it looks very nice with contrasting wood. BTW, apparently making your own Dominoes from different woods for effect is pretty easy. :)

[Terry Fogarty]

Has anybody used the Domino for drawer joinery, say out of 1/2 baltic birch ply for a dresser?
Just curious if this is a typical application or is there a concern with strength.

Mr Childress you might have seen it on this very forum on some time back (post No 84) ;)

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=511895&page=7&highlight=tool+decade



Frank, this is the way i do all my drawers now. Apart from being increadably strong it also look terrific. Its amazing the comments i get and how people say they find them refreshing over the boring machine cut dovetail.

The sides as just a simple rebated front and the side sits in a small jig that holds and clamps it together then the Domi is plunged.

The one shown is the 6mm Domi, but i now use the 5mm Domis as they look better.

Also i have included the pics of the hall table the drawer belongs to

The first one shows all the Domi mortices and fitted tenons before assembly and the next pic shows it together, no glue, thats how good a fit the Dominos are :)

[Dan Clark]

The one shown is the 6mm Domi, but i now use the 5mm Domis as they look better :)
I wonder how a mix of dominos would look.

Regards,

Dan.

[Vijay Kumar]

I have seen pictures of this done (in another forum) and it looks very nice with contrasting wood. BTW, apparently making your own Dominoes from different woods for effect is pretty easy. :)
I wonder if anyone that has gone thru the process of making your own dominoes, could outline the procedure. This is not to save money but to make dominoes out of species of wood that are not available from Festool. Bob Marino did indicate that Mahogany was going to be available soon, but I am looking at some outdoor species such as teak or IPE etc.

The process of making tenons to the right thickness is straightforward, but to make the bull nose radius to 5mm , 6 , 8 or 10 mm thickness. This would mean a radius of 2.5, 3, 4 and 5mm. Does anyone make radius bits in these thicknesses? In the US? Inquiring minds want to know.

Vijay

[Mark Carlson]

Terry,

Can you give some more details on your drawer, like the thickness of front and sides. If the tenons are 6mm it kinda looks like your front is an 1in thick and the sides are 3/4in. Just guessing.

~mark

[Steve Roxberg]

Frank,

I'm doing some 1/2 inch baltic birch drawers right now. I can send you some photos if you would like.

It works, but you need to have one cut deep and the other cut shallow.

Here is what I did.

The sides of the drawer run the full depth of the cabinet and the front and back are inset. This puts the Domino in a shear postion to the force of pulling the drawer in and out.

So with that said the front and the back are end grain plunged to a full depth of 20mm. It is important to note that I'm using the 5mm Domino's and the cutter for this Domino only supports the 12, 15 and 20mm depths due to the cutters length.

This leaves the wood Domino sticking out of the front about 8mm or 5/16. The shallowest depth of cut with the normal settings is 12, but it really cuts closer to 13 to allow for glue, which would cut clean through a 12mm or 1/2 Baltic birch side.

The modified manual explains the process of creating custom depths by using 1/2 pvc cut to length and placed over one of the plunge bars.

I didn't have any pvc so I tried to devise another quick and dirty method.

Since the joint is hidden it didn't need to be exact so I eyeballed it. The front curved portion of the motor housing when fully plunged will cover the vertical portion of the fence, or bit protector. By plunging so that the front curve of the motor housing just got to the rear of the fence got me the necessary depth.

I love this machine, I'm building a Sysport for my Systainers and have used the Domino to hold the Melamine sindes together, and now the drawers. It is just plain fun to use.

[Frank Martin]

Steve,

What a coincidence! Please do send photos of your 1/2" BB drawers. Your method of construction is pretty clear from your post, but photos would be really nice.
Thanks!



Frank,

I'm doing some 1/2 inch baltic birch drawers right now. I can send you some photos if you would like.

It works, but you need to have one cut deep and the other cut shallow.

Here is what I did.

The sides of the drawer run the full depth of the cabinet and the front and back are inset. This puts the Domino in a shear postion to the force of pulling the drawer in and out.

So with that said the front and the back are end grain plunged to a full depth of 20mm. It is important to note that I'm using the 5mm Domino's and the cutter for this Domino only supports the 12, 15 and 20mm depths due to the cutters length.

This leaves the wood Domino sticking out of the front about 8mm or 5/16. The shallowest depth of cut with the normal settings is 12, but it really cuts closer to 13 to allow for glue, which would cut clean through a 12mm or 1/2 Baltic birch side.

The modified manual explains the process of creating custom depths by using 1/2 pvc cut to length and placed over one of the plunge bars.

I didn't have any pvc so I tried to devise another quick and dirty method.

Since the joint is hidden it didn't need to be exact so I eyeballed it. The front curved portion of the motor housing when fully plunged will cover the vertical portion of the fence, or bit protector. By plunging so that the front curve of the motor housing just got to the rear of the fence got me the necessary depth.

I love this machine, I'm building a Sysport for my Systainers and have used the Domino to hold the Melamine sindes together, and now the drawers. It is just plain fun to use.

[Terry Fogarty]

Terry,

Can you give some more details on your drawer, like the thickness of front and sides. If the tenons are 6mm it kinda looks like your front is an 1in thick and the sides are 3/4in. Just guessing.

~mark

Mark this is the way i do them now. The sides are 15mm and fronts are 22mm and Dominos are 5mm.

And Vijay, except for 5mm dominos i havnt bought the others for months now as i make my own.

I have always had a problem (like most of us) with strips i have ripped, and now they are saved and every 2 weeks i spend an hour and thickness to 10mm, 8mm and 6mm. I dont bother rounding the ends, instead i have made a small guide that clamps onto the jointer (fence set at 45deg) and i pass the stock through and take a very small chamfer of all 4 sides. That is great for excess glue to escape and provides a beautifull fit. Then i gang dock them to length. Its all very quick and very accurate. I can usualy get over 300 made in an hour and that is a great saving on buying them from Festool:)

Akso dont think you have to stick with the same size as Festool offer. I make sizes to fit the 3 different width settings. The larges i make is 55mm x 32mm x 10

[David Dundas]

Vijay,

I have made my own floating tenon stock, using a thicknesser, and rounding over the ends on a router table. CMT make roundover bits with 2, 3, and 4.75 mm radius, see http://www.cmtutensili.com/prodotti.asp?FamCatalogo=7/8/938 . It is not crucial to have the radius precisely correct, especially if you are using gap-filling epoxy to glue the tenons.

David

[Vijay Kumar]

Thank you Terry and David for your answers. This is enouraging that I can actually use the right species particularly in outdoor situations.

Vijay

[fRED mCnEILL]

"Its amazing the comments i get and how people say they find them refreshing over the boring machine cut dovetail."

I find the above statement to be - er-interesting.

I just finished kitchen cabinets for my daughter's 1900 era house. The cabinets are traditional style to fit the era and, although constructed out of walnut and cherry, are painted(my daughters choice much to the chagrine of my wood supplier)). Therefore there wasn't too much opportunity for me to "show off" my skills, so to speak, as there would be with stained or natural wood.

So the only place I could "show off" was with the drawers. And, of course, they are machine cut dovetails. About the ONLY comment I haven't received on them is "boring". A builder friend simply gushed over the drawers and wanted me to redo his kitchen. But I didn't hear him say "gee, those are fabulous drawers, although the joinery is boring." Interestingly enough, he also didn't say "I see you use machine cut dovetails-can't you do hand cut ones." Nope, not a single "boring" comment. Bit I guess there is still hope.

The Domino looks like a fabulous machine. Although pricey,I'll probably get one at some point. But I find the "hysteria a bit over the top. And, I seriously doubt it will revolutionize woodworking.

BTW, does Norm have one?

Fred Mc.

[Orson Carter]

Hi Fred,

Great to see that the situation worked for you and that Terry also has a winner. I've done both and use one in some situations and the other in different situations. I'll even use finger joints if the mood takes me. Can't there be room for both? I don't understand why if you are happy with your result, there is a need to criticize someone else's result.:) .

Orson

[Dan Lautner]

"I seriously doubt it will revolutionize woodworking."

For the middle aged guy that enjoys playing with power tools in the garage on weekends you are right. For contractors, cabinet makers, remodelers, furniture makers/designers etc...the domino will revolutionize how fast and accurate you can build stuff. For me the fun is in the design and the finished product period. I don't want to have a shop full of 5 hp iron. Also bringing the tool to the work piece is a superior way to work on almost everything I do. Buying a mortising machine or a slot mortiser at this point would be like carrying a 50 lb boom box with you on the treadmill.

Dan

[Terry Fogarty]

"Its amazing the comments i get and how people say they find them refreshing over the boring machine cut dovetail." Fred Mc

Fred each to his own:) Im not suggesting everyone should stop doing dovetails because thats silly. Im just showing a different approach and showing just how versatile the Domino is.

If you go into any furniture outlet anywhere in the world and open a drawer what do you see? Dovetails, and the majority are machine cut. These days most people dont comment because they almost expect to see them and take them for granted.

If you or anyone want to do them thats fine, i have no objection at all. I just find them over expossed and all to common.... In a nut shell... boring:) It would be terrible if we all done things the same way.

[Rob Blaustein]

For the middle aged guy that enjoys playing with power tools in the garage on weekends you are right...
Dan
I'm a member of that group and actually think it could also "revolutionize" ww'ing for those willing and able to pony up the bucks, though I acknowledge that this is likely not a big fraction of hobbyists. Why might it revolutionize? First, it will save time. I realize that is not an important factor for everyone, since there are many hobbyists for whom any time in the shop is a wonderful escape/diversion, and efficiency is by no means paramount. But there are many hobbyists who have limited time and have a backlog of things to build and will benefit from the speed with which one can tackle certain types of assembly. There is also another reason--it may encourage beginners who might otherwise be gunshy about trying more 'advanced' types of joinery like loose tenons. So I guess it depends on how you define 'revolutionize'--on a global scale for hobbyists in general, probably not. But for some individual hobbyists, I think it could revolutionize how they work.

[Frank Martin]

I appreciate everyone's input, especially the pictures and pointers to Rick's manual. Seems like drawer joinery is certainly within the scope of loose tenon joinery.

Thanks again!:)

[Dan Forman]

A procedural question here, do you add the dominos after the drawer has been glues and joined, or hold it together with clamps and do it all at the same time?

Dan

[fRED mCnEILL]

"I don't understand why if you are happy with your result, there is a need to criticize someone else's result."

Gee Orson, I don't recall criticizing some else's result, in fact its just the opposite as the op was suggesting that machine cut dovetails were boring.

[craig lapiana]

"Also i have included the pics of the hall table the drawer belongs to
the first one shows all the Domi mortices and fitted tenons before assembly and the next pic shows it together, no glue, thats how good a fit the Dominos are"

ok i have been on the fence now for a few months regarding a domino purchase. so much that i returned my brand new porter cable biscuit jointer to Rockler 'just in case' i decided to make my initial leap into the 'festool' rabbit hole :) well terry your pictures above regarding the hall table has pushed me into wonderland. i can not wait to see what this ride will entail. bob please ship it today!

as usual many thanks for all the great posts on this board!

craig

ps:also a factor which has played into this decision was the amazing videos of the domino in action located on youtube.com in particular bill esposito's posts.