Question for you trim carpenters

[Gary Herrmann]

SWMBO has asked for chair rail in the dining room. I've done the initial milling of the cherry I'm going to use.

Now for the bad news. Using a ruler and a straightedge, I've determined that the wall undulates up to 5/16" of an inch in and out over several points along the approx 14 foot length of the wall. The moulding will be approximately 4 1/4" wide. I had planned on the base part being 3/4" and the cap being 1 1/2" thick.

I know I should try to scribe the moulding, but any tips you can give me for something this out of plumb would be much appreciated. The amount this wall moves in an out over it's length has me scratching my head. Yes, its an old house.

I don't think this is going to be much fun.

[Per Swenson]

Questions first,

Whats on the wall now? Paint, wall paper, combination, 1/2 panel?

Is it sheet rock or plaster? Is it going around the entire room, or

just one wall end to end?

Per

[Ben Grunow]

Good questions Per. I'll blurt out my ideas before hearing what the conditions are though.

My thoughts would include: scribing the first piece (make from 1" and subtract as needed-get a power plane if you dont have one) and nailing the second now that there is a relatively flat surface OR screwing the first piece to the studs with slight shims in the low spots (fill gaps with caulk or feather out walls with compound to eliminate the gaps where shims are) and lightly scribing what is left out of the second OR cut the mouldings into the drywall at the high spots (not a good way to go AFAIK) OR just use big screws and plug the holes.

Shimming the trim straight and taping the wall flat to fill the gaps is the best way and I dont think either of the methods is more or less work.

Im sure there are other solutions, just wait and see.

BTW, those unulations are WAY less than what the average house has with the crap lumber people are using today (doug fir is all we use and straight studs are rare).

Good luck

Ben

[Jamie Buxton]

Only 5/16"? That's not bad. Nail that thing on! Unless the 5/16 undulation happens in some very short space, the railing should be able to conform to the wall.

[Gary Herrmann]

I think we've got plaster or something similar. Definitely not drywall. House was built in '54, walls have a lot of texture to them. Te architect up the street called it something else once, something that came between plaster and drywall?

Walls are painted. She just wants to put the chair rail on the one wall. Built in china hutch on the other wall, someday...

If I scribe, whats the best way to do it? Geez, maybe I should have started with 6/4 cherry, rather than 4/4...

After initial milling, I've got 7/8" thickness. Gonna let it acclimate for a few days while I figure out what to do next.

Guidance appreciated.

[John Gornall]

A little off topic but I thought some might find this of interest:

Back in about 1964 I watched 2 old men working. They would have been about 70 years old at the time which means they were born in the 1800's and used some old building techniques. They were finishing an addition to an old house which they had worked on during the original construction many years before. One was a plasterer and the other was a trim carpenter. As the plaster was applied and still wet the carpenter would cut and fit the trim including baseboards, chair rails, casings, and crown mouldings. These pieces would be pushed right into the wet plaster and nailed. The plasterer would then use a few trowel strokes for final smoothing. They had worked together for a long time and it showed as they worked along in silence complimenting each other.

I was a kid driving a lumber truck and saw a number of the old ways when I delivered to various jobs. As I remember, I got in a bit of trouble on this delivery for taking too long - I must have watched these old guys for a good hour.

[Tom Sontag]

I agree with Jamie; it seems you ought to be able to nail it flush all along without any scribing. Don't make it harder than you need to! Finish carpentry is only distantly related to woodworking as we know it.

Putty caulk and paint
make a carpenter
what a carpenter ain't.

[Richard Butler]

As bad as it might sound the only way to get this job done is to nail the trim up and let the board conform to the wall.

[Per Swenson]

Ok,

Here is what I would do.

What the old geezers in Johns post did, sort of.

Seeing as its your house, do it right from the begginnig.

Get your self a bag of 45 minute drywall compound.

It is mixed with plaster and sets quickly.

Using thin coats and a 12 inch spackle knife fill in the wall

end to end about 18 inchs wide and feather out and prime.

I would not scribe the wood as it is always a focal point.

Chair rail draws the eye.

1 day job.

Per

[Jason Roehl]

Per--he said the wall was textured. I'd just nail up that chair rail. Any minor remaining gaps would look better than trying to match an old plaster texture. Gaps in naturally finished woodwork are less noticeable than the same gaps in painted woodwork, which is why we caulk the painted stuff. Don't caulk the natural stuff--I know one guy (who is a landlord) who caulks everything, natural woodwork included, even in his own house, and it looks terrible.

[Per Swenson]

Jason,

Thanks, Reading comprehension,d-minus.

Gary, how about a pic of the wall?

See, me, rather then scribe the rail would go the other route

then, cuting thin strips of cherry and adding that to the rail in the low

spots.

If the wall was stucco (very textured), I would snap two lines and cut

the stucco back, nail on a backer piece to get the wall straight.

If you are making your own rail, don't forget to back cut that also.

Folks, this all may seem like a great effort for a chair rail you could just

nail on the wall, caulk and be done with it. That's work's too.

But I like to think my phone rings daily because we put a little extra

effort when we take your money.

Per

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Easy fix....nail the rail up AFTER finishing it. Then you can use caulk to fill any gaps and paint it the wall color after it dries [and it wipes off the finished rail easily]. Problem solved without any gymnastics with the chair rail or drywall mud. 5/16 is not a big deal over a few feet anyway.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Only 5/16"? That's not bad. Nail that thing on! Unless the 5/16 undulation happens in some very short space, the railing should be able to conform to the wall.

What he said.

[Gary Herrmann]

I like that answer Kelly. No scribing, no trying to bend the rail to the wall. I don't have time to scan a pic right now, but the rail is on page 42 of Shop Drawings for Craftsman Interiors, bottom right corner.

Oh and Tom, I'm gonna have to pick another piece of 4/4 to use. I rough milled the one piece and it has a lot of flame figure in the last 2.5 feet of it and a decent amount throughout. Now where did I get that cherry again... ;)

[Mike Ross]

Would it work to add a small quarter round on top of the Chair rail?

3/8ths quarter round will follow the wall where the chair rail will not and will cover 5/16ths gaps.

You could paint the wall above and nail this on last for a nice clean install.

Mike Ross