pocket screws spliting my stiles

[Luis Oliveira]

Hi all, I am using pocket screws to build the face frame for a cabinet I am building. The wood is pecan and it seams quatersawn, very very hard.

while trying to screw the stiles to the rails of the face frame the stiles are spliting as I am driving the screws.

Is there any thecniques I can use to prevent this from happening?, Is there shuch a thing as pre-drilling the stiles if I am using pocket screws.

Oh I forgot in a couple of cases, I actully manage two break two screws while attaching the rails to the stiles.

Any help woule be great.

Thanks.

[Joe Chritz]

Pecan is a subspecies of Hickory and I have had the same problems when using Hickory.

Try driving the screw a short way then backing it out, then back in. Do that a few times, in effect making a pilot hole. Be sure to use fine thread screws and I have had some luck in using 1" in stead of 1 1/4" screws.

Be sure you have the piece clamped down well and I go and clamp them together also. Lastly when you drill the pocket hole leave it as far from the edge as you can.

If all else fails you could predrill if needed but I have had good luck doing that above.

Joe

[Roy McQuay]

Predrilling is required and the bit must be large enough so only the screw threads, not the shank, touch the sides of the hole. That way, the wood is not stressed and there will be no splitting. Buy a few bits of the right size for your screws as you will likely break some. I predrill almost everything.

[Per Swenson]

And lube that screw up, oil from the side of your nose works.

Plus everything Joe said.

Per

[glenn bradley]

From your description ("while trying to screw the stiles to the rails of the face frame the stiles are splitting as I am driving the screws.
") the screw heads are in the stile and it is splitting under pressure, yes?

Are these panhead / washerhead screws and not flathead? If I misunderstand and the splitting piece is where the screws enter; yes pilot hole on harder woods. Also, fine threads only.

[John D Watson]

Nose Lube, Ya thats the ticket. LOL

[aaron allen]

Hi all, I am using pocket screws to build the face frame for a cabinet I am building. The wood is pecan and it seams quatersawn, very very hard.

while trying to screw the stiles to the rails of the face frame the stiles are spliting as I am driving the screws.

Is there any thecniques I can use to prevent this from happening?, Is there shuch a thing as pre-drilling the stiles if I am using pocket screws.

Oh I forgot in a couple of cases, I actully manage two break two screws while attaching the rails to the stiles.

Any help woule be great.

Thanks.
What is the distance from the edge to the bottom of the 'pocket and please tell me width and thickness of Pecan. If spacing isn't correct splitting will occur. Do you clamp with wide washer vise grip pliers??

Dare I ask what the volts of the screwgun and torque setting?? Are you using 4" or better drive shank?

Are you using fine thread or course thread screws??
I should think, fine are best.

[J.R. Rutter]

I used to have this problem with brazilian cherry, which is also very hard and somewhat brittle. The solution was to get an aircraft drill bit, which is a good 6" long, to use as a pilot bit. After the parts are glued and clamped (I use a C-clamp to hold them to my assembly table.) Use the long bit to drill through the rail hole and into the stile. Then you can screw them together.

[Walter Yamamoto]

One thing I learned awhile back with pocket joinery is that you have to take the cross-grain direction of the wood into consideration.

Look at the ends of the piece that the screw will be going into (not the one with the pocket drilled into it). As you know, the screw goes into the wood at an angle. Make sure that the direction the screw will be biting into the wood is across the cross-sectional grain and not with it.

If the screw bites into the wood in the same direction as the cross sectional grain, the wood is more prone to splitting.

Does that make sense? I tried to explain it without pictures, but I can make a diagram if needed.

[Pete Brown]

I've had pocket holes do all sorts of funky alignment things to me before, but I have never had a split.

I assume you are drilling the pocket into the stiles and that is where the split happens. Some things to check:

1. Are you drilling the pocket holes too close to the sides of the stile?

2. Are you using the correct screws? You should be using washer-head FINE pitch pocket hole screws. Don't substitute other types of screws, and definitely don't use coarse pitch; save that for softwoods and plywood. Breaking screws makes me think you're using coarse pitch or a non-pocket hold screw.

3. Are you drilling the pocket hole at the correct setting for the thickness of the wood?

4. Is your wood 3/4" or thicker? I have never tried it with 5/8 or 1/2, but I doubt the experience would be good.

Pete

[Dave Mapes]

It could be as simple as switching type of screws. If you are using kregs course screws on hardwood, spliting is quite common. Try using the kregs fine screws and I wouldn't be supprise to see your problem resolved.

Dave

[Ben Grunow]

I have polished small soap stone sculptures with nose grease but not lubed screws (yet). How much McDonalds are you eating (Per)?

[Ted Miller]

Let that screw have a bit of self tap after drilling.

Nose lube works for strikes as well, try it sometime for a quick lube when your door latch is sticking...

[Luis Oliveira]

Hi all I wanted to add a bit more info.

I am trying to use the Kreg R2 Pockethole system.
http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-R2-Rocket-Pockethole-System/dp/B00002240J/ref=sr_1_6/102-8974997-1812114?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1175484138&sr=1-6
I am also using fine thread kreg screws and I am using pecan 3/4" material.

I am using the kreg clamp and other clams to make sure I have a tite fit.

I place the kreg jig on the rails so the pre-drilling is on the rails and I am trying to attach the rails to the stiles. The stiles are the one that are spliting or breaking the screw

I heard some interesting comments:
1. screw and un-screw until rail is completely attach to the stile.
2. Lube the screw - I will not forget the nose possibility... :-)
3. Wood direction grain...

I will give these a try.

I don't know of any way to pre-drille the stiles right how would you pre-drile at an angle since the rails are already pre-drille.

I hope this gives more color in the problem.

[Ted Miller]

I don't know of any way to pre-drille the stiles right how would you pre-drile at an angle since the rails are already pre-drille.

Luis, Did I read this right?, when you are using the jig to drill the pilots they are going in at a angle, yes?...

[Jules Dominguez]

I would think the only way you could predrill would be to set everything up and do the pre-drilling through the pocket holes.

I recently used two pocket hole screws in each corner of an 1 1/2 wide white oak face frame, using Kreg fine thread screws, with no splitting.

All of the previous recommendations are good advice, but you might want to try them on scrap pecan of the same thickness and same distance from the edge, and see how it works. The pecan you have may just not be a good application for pocket holes.