Faced frame/unfaced hybrid?

[Al Willits]

In the continuing battle to please Beasty, I now am faced with building a faced frame kitchen cabinet with out the protruding edge of the face frame in the interior of the cabinet.
It seems she likes the smooth interior of the frame less design and the look of a framed outside...does seem like a good idea...maybe..
Is it possible to do this?
I understand the cabinet might be a bit smaller than a frame less design, but she says OK on that.
So...if any of this has made any sense, is it possible?
Would there be a problem with a euro style hinge?

Al..........anybody got any Thorazine I could borrow?

[Jeff Kerr]

Interesting idea. It seems to me that it would work. Looking at my own they have 3/4-1" of FF on the inside and the concealed hinge mounts to the frame.

I would think that you could find a hinge to do this with.

Good luck

[frank shic]

It'd be a lot easier to build the cabinets WITHOUT the frame altogether but if you're wife (NOT beasty!!!) insists, you can easily use the regular straight arm 107 degree euro hinges made by blum just bore the holes to account for the additional face frame. So for instance, if you're going to use 3/4" stock that translates into roughly 19mm. Subtract that from 37mm and you get a 18mm boring distance for your hinge plates (0mm).

[Jim Becker]

I'm having trouble assuredly visualizing what you mean, Al...are you saying that the "face frame" is offset to so that its inside edges are common with the interior surfaces? If so, it's doable, but you'll need to build up on the outside of the carcass to support a counter, if any, and to hold end panels. Frankly, ithis is exactly how my vanities are being constructed at least relative to the sides and the bottom. The face frame components at the top that surround the drawers are "normal" for face frames. My inset doors use normal frameless hinges with this method.

[Joe Chritz]

I have read of several cabinet shops doing just that so they can use standard euro hinges. Using 3/4 material you would have 3/4 reveal on the outside of the cabinet.

The only tricky area would be the top, but since you wouldn't ever touch that part I would flush the insides of the stiles and bottom rail and flush the outside(top) of the top rail so there isn't a problem with the counter top.

Joe

[Al Willits]

Thanks all, Jim yes, we wanted the inside edge of the rail and stiles to be flush with the case, mainly for pull out drawers, shelfs and personal taste in how they look.
The top could be conventioal frame with the edge inside, just need the three others flush.
I was thinking of the upper cabinets when I posted this, but now that you mention it, there will be bottom cabinets too...thinking the top being the standard frame and the other sides frameless might be the way to go...I hope. :)

Frank, Beasty/Shebeast are terms of endearment, there's a long story behind it, but just trust me, they are meant in humor.

Al

[Jim Becker]

Think: "Proportion". No matter how you build it, the proportions for your rails and stiles need to be appropriate for the style, etc.

[frank shic]

al, it's touching to see that you and your wife have such a relationship that can enable you to call her "beasty" in affectionate terms although it makes me wonder what she calls you!!! keep in mind that flushing the bottom of the face frame edge is the most critical so that you can slide glasses and plates in and out without catching the edge. for the sides, you actually have approximately 1/16" leeway before it'll interfere with the hinge 's positioning. the top is noncritical. i say all this because it can be pretty frustrating trying to flush up ALL FOUR sides unless you've got a lot of patience as well as a decent belt sander!

[Bruce Wrenn]

Beg, borrow buy, or steal a copy of Danny Proulex's book "Building Your Own Kitchen Cabinets." He uses almost this exact system. There are cut lists for various sizes of cabinets using either 5/8, or 3/4 stock. He makes his rails 1/16 shorter than top/ bottom of cabinet. This means stiles project into cabinet the thickness of a credit card (hint, hint). Euro hardware works perfectly. Look like face frame cabinets from outside.

[Ted Miller]

Al, You would be proud of me this weekend, cleaned and did some fixing up in my shop this weekend.

I wish I could see a picture of what you mean, how wide and what thickness would the flush frames be?...

[Al Willits]

Ted, does that mean I should quit waiting for them plane tickets?
I was looking forward to seeing the left coast...O-well...:D

Jim, I think I'll build a smaller version of what I'm trying to do out of MDF and see what it looks like, I think when you say "proportion" you mean how it looks to the eye?

Bruce, I have a copy of his book...er...in fact it looked so good I bought three of them..(darn CRS disease) :)
I'll go though it again and pay attention this time.

Ted, think framed face cabinets, like most of the old fashion cabinets you see in older homes, the face frame is visible around the doors, they have a lip that extends into the carcass frame about a 3/4" around the opening.
I (she) wants that look, but with out the interior lip running around the edge of the door opening, like the euro style cabinets.
Main reason is to put sliding drawers and such in the cabinets.
So there could be a lip on the top of the cabinet and flush on the other three sides.

I was unsure of what hinges would work if I did that, but it sounds like the standard frame less euro hinge will work....I think

Frank, what she calls me all depends on what mood she's in...and what little annoyance I have got into...at the risk of giving out more info than I probably should, she normally calls me Bear and I call her Snooks....
But after almost thiry years and the hell she's gone though, I mostly call her my Life.

Al

[Craig Feuerzeig]

I've done a few that have face frames along the sides and top, but not on the bottom. The doors were flush inset, and the cabinet walls were doubled up to flush the interior side wall...and inset hinges. Nice look actually.

[Mike Palmer]

Al, I did my entire kitchen the way you described. I wanted open cabinets with no center stile in the way. I used Blum clip on 125 deg hinges for the cabinets. It is the same hinge used on euro's except you use a FF base. This method gives you the best of both worlds.

[Laurie Brown]

Beg, borrow buy, or steal a copy of Danny Proulex's book "Building Your Own Kitchen Cabinets." He uses almost this exact system. There are cut lists for various sizes of cabinets using either 5/8, or 3/4 stock. He makes his rails 1/16 shorter than top/ bottom of cabinet. This means stiles project into cabinet the thickness of a credit card (hint, hint). Euro hardware works perfectly. Look like face frame cabinets from outside.
That's exactly the book I used to make my cabinets (pictures at www.aerth.org/woodworking ). The sides extend into the inside only about 1/16" so they're more or less flush and I use Euro hinges without any problems. The top is flush with the top of the cabinet and extends into the interior, so countertops are not a problem. The bottom is flush with the bottom shelf and extends below the cabinet.

[Al Willits]

Had a chance to look at Danny Prolux book again, looks close to what we want, maybe add a bit to the bottom rail piece (upper cabinets) to give frame look around doors (page 24 of his book).
I think I'll have to build a few different, and see what they look like.
Thanks all, getting closer I think.

FF base? same as flush frame?

Al