Stuck with Chineeeeese crap!

[Paul Zonneveld]

I just took on a job for a client to do a fireplace (fake one) surround and much to my shagrin he bought Birch plywood for me to work with. Well one look at it and well its just plain crap. I am having a heck of time with warping of the sheets of ply and the veneer was put on using some glue but cetainly not very much and not over the whole sheet. The veneer pops off with a hard sneeze. He bought several sheets of the stuff so there is not much I can do about it now. I told him about my concerns, but he said he was not worried and that I will make it work. Well I can tell you for sure I will never use this stuff from China again if I can avoid it!!!! I think I feel embarassed for my table saw just cutting the stuff.

[Jim Becker]

Paul, if the material is not workable, don't work with it...or get it in writing that you are not responsible for defects in the project resulting from the material provided by the customer.

[Tim Martin]

I just took on a job for a client to do a fireplace (fake one) surround and much to my shagrin he bought Birch plywood for me to work with. Well one look at it and well its just plain crap. I am having a heck of time with warping of the sheets of ply and the veneer was put on using some glue but cetainly not very much and not over the whole sheet. The veneer pops off with a hard sneeze. He bought several sheets of the stuff so there is not much I can do about it now. I told him about my concerns, but he said he was not worried and that I will make it work. Well I can tell you for sure I will never use this stuff from China again if I can avoid it!!!! I think I feel embarassed for my table saw just cutting the stuff.
Do as Jim says.

What sort of veneer is applied to the plyboard? At the moment we don't have any manufactured board from China here in Australia so I am not familiar with it, but I am sure with time that will change.

Maybe the Chinese manufactures are new to producing veneered ply, so they are yet to get the techniques down.

Can you post a pic of the problems? I would be interested to see.

Like everything else they do, their techniques will vastly improve with time. Remember the times when you would steer clear of anything made in Japan? Now anything made in Japan is highly sought after and highly regarded.

Either way, we will have to get used to basically everything being manufactured in China.....like it or not.:(

[Paul Zonneveld]

Exactly what I did Jim. The client is a former neighbor of mine and I went through the sheets with him and pointed out the defects, but they seemed minor to him and he was willing to amend the quotation sheet to include a statement about the qualiity of the wood. To me well it may have well have had bullet holes in it. The veneer seems very fragile as well. I know I can put together the piece for him, but I am really dreading the fininshing now. I just can not believe how bad this stuff is.

[Don Bullock]

I would have charged the difference in price between what he bought and the "good" stuff as an extra fee to have to work with the wood.

[Jack Ganssle]

It's interesting how things haven't changed. I owned a 1963 Cheoy Lee Lion sailboat for many years. She was built of all teak on iroko frames - teak hull, teak deck, just stunning. But the deck was laid on Chinese plywood, which was famously bad. It delaminated, as happened on just about every other Cheoy Lee. All that wonderful teak, yet the boat was cheapened by saving a few bucks on cruddy plywood.

Jack

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

much to my shagrin he bought Birch plywood for me to work with. Well one look at it and well its just plain crap.

Many years ago I ran into problems like that. I solved it by adopting a policy that under no curcumstances would a customer ever purchase any materials. they never know what they are doing and they end up cheaping out sticking you with their mistakes and poor judgment.



I told him about my concerns, but he said he was not worried and that I will make it work.

Sounds like a guy who has learned how to use his employee's sense of dignity and desire to please to their dis-advantage putting them behind the 8-ball then watching them fail and undercutting them for it.

Expect the price to get renegotiated - by him.


Well I can tell you for sure I will never use this stuff from China again if I can avoid it!!!!

Unless you have a prior agreement with the guy that he would buy the materials I think you should simply reject it out of hand - even now that you tried to use it and somply tell him that it's inadequate and you will not use it. Then stick to your guns. You are the tradesman and you are the expert - not him. He's also not your boss or employer. That's what I think anyway.

It's your business and your client and you are in charge.

[Bob Marino]

Paul,

Excellent advice here. Also, it's your reputation - if a couple of months/years down the road, the defects become noticeable, he's not going to say "Well, the materials were poor, so don't blame the contractor".

Bob

[Don Wurscher]

:mad: Ran into the same thing when I brought a sheet of 3/4 Oak Ply from HD.

When you sight down over the top, it looks like it is suffering from the mumps, there are humps and dips (caused from voids), makes you seasick.

I made the mistake of using it anyway, when I cut though I found 10 voids in a 24" section. When I finally got the case finished, I then discovered that the stuff had warped, Now I have an opening 32" long with a 1/8" curve in it, NICE.

I made myself swear on a stack of wood working magazines, that I would never buy a sheet of Chinese made stuff again, and put HD way at the bottom of my sheet buying list

I did however find the guy responsible for all my problems, I see him every time I walk past a mirror:D .

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Bad plywood seems to be a regular occuring post these days. The theme is that Home Depot stuff should be avoided and inquiries must be made at other suppliers before you purchase.

I found decent North American made plywood (Canadian) at a local hardwood supplier. The propieter said that he will not buy Chinese plywood again. He upset his customers and lost money on the deal.

On another quality note, I bought some drywall screws from Home Depot. I thought this was a safe bet. I was wrong. Many of the screws would not receive a philips driver in them because the slot was not formed properly. Simply amazing!

-Jeff :)

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

On another quality note, I bought some drywall screws from Home Depot. I thought this was a safe bet. I was wrong. Many of the screws would not receive a philips driver in them because the slot was not formed properly. Simply amazing!

That happened to me recently at an Ace hardware store. I was in a hurry and didn't want to drive to the borg.
The bloody phillips recievers were malformed.
I won'g buy screws from them again.

When I buy from the Borg I usually get the DECK MATE branded screws with the dual drive. I have had great success with them.
Recently I got a couple of boxes of their self drilling SST square drive screws for building outdoot furniture. Haven't had occasion to try 'em yet tho.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I don't use that Chinese Birch anymore...wayyy to many problems with veneer lift.

[Marc Casebolt]

We recently built some heavy duty roll around carts for some large video projectors (300lbs). They didn't need to be pretty, just really solid. Our supplier (not a BORG) had some Chinese birch ply that was just the nicest looking stuff I've ever seen. No kidding. Minimal voids, perfect face, straight as any ply you can get today. When the customer ordered more carts we were lucky that we could get some more from the same batch.

I usually feel the same as most of you, that Chinese products are inferior, but I guess we just got lucky with this plywood.

[Dennis Peacock]

Yea...been there and done that as well. I have learned to always request "domestic" plywood. The veneer is thicker and the overall quality of the plywood is much better. Needless to say that my lesson was learned.

[Byron Trantham]

I buy my cabinet grade sheet goods form a local wood distributor not HD or Lowes. I got the same Chinese stuff from him. I told him the stuff warped and when you rip it, it pulls away from or pinches into the cut just like solid wood!!!!! I also told him the moisture content is 14%! He said no way so he got our his meter and guess what!? 14% with his meter too! The only other option I have is to drive 50 miles north to a bigger distributor whom I am told will sell Canadian stuff for $11 a sheet more! I'm not a fan of driving down I95 at 60+ miles per hour with 4x8 sheets of plywood in the back of my truck (a Nisan) no matter how well its tied down. My local guy says he will look into alternative sources. At this point I can only wait for enough people screaming to get the problem resolved. Good luck everyone.

[Paul Zonneveld]

Sounds like a familar situation for many. Well this weekend while working the project I called the client and told him that I was abondoning the project using the sheets he provided as I had one begin to bend on a rip and begin to bind (despite the riving knife). The sheet was actually begining to move once cut. At that point I used my knee to shut the saw down (good thing it was near the end of the cut so I could reach the switch). I called the client up explained the situation and he was actually appologetic about the plywood. I explained about the different grades of plywood and we have come up with an agreement (in writing, well email) that I will source new ply and will cover the cost. Nice guy. I think he got a little nervous once I told him about the near kickback. So I leared a lesson here No customer supplied materials of any kind not sourced by me.

Thanks for all of the replies.

[Kyle Kraft]

Sounds like a good idea to call ahead and ask the lumberyard (non-BORG) where they buy their plywood prior to making a trip.

[John Schreiber]

Isn't there an American Plywood Association or something like that? I mean in the building trades I see "approved" materials and the like. If I built my house with crummy plywood wouldn't the insurance company object? Why can't we just look for some label?