Rikon Model 10-325 or Powermatic 14" Bandsaw?

[Ken Massingale]

Happy Saturday everyone.
Searching the Creek on this topic didn't show any recent posts on the 10-325 or comparisons to the PM. I 'thought' I was set to get the Rikon but the PM was suggested by a couple of folks who I consider better informed than myself, so I'm looking for feedback from owners of these saws and am open to other options in my price range.

I can get the PM with riser for a tad less than the Rikon, after rebate. My needs are for primarily resawing, I realize 1 1/2hp is minimal but ~$750 is all I can spend on the new bandsaw.
Thanks in advance, this is not a small purchase for me and hopefully I won't regret my decision.
ken

[Brad Townsend]

First the disclaimer: I don't own either saw. That being said, I do own a Craftsman 14", which is very close to the Rikon (only 1hp and 4" less resaw capacity, but virtually identical otherwise). I love the saw and it is a good value, but I paid about $350 less than you are going to pay.

I have examined the PM and read enough favorable owner comments on it to suggest that for equal money, I would go with the PM. Also, when you are ready to move up to a bigger saw, there is little question which one will bring the higher resale.

[Andrew Chavchich]

A few month ago I had exactly the same dilemma.
After reading very positive comments on Rikon I've bought PM with a riser block.
Only when I saw them both I realized that Ricon has steel frame which deterred me.
Powermatic 14" is very good one. When the blade is sharp it resaws 12" oak very well.
The fence sucks big time, hard to imagine anything more ridiculous.
Another problem is slight misalignment after istalling the riser block, so I've shaved riser block pins a little. That alleviated the problem but not fully eliminated it.

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

I can't remember which 14" the 10-325 is, but, if it is the 14" with a 13" cutting height, you are getting more saw for less money. If you can wait a little while, the Rikon 18" usually goes on sale for $999.99 several times a year.

I'v used all three and for cutting quality, I see no difference.

Bruce

[Curt Harms]

Happy Saturday everyone.
Searching the Creek on this topic didn't show any recent posts on the 10-325 or comparisons to the PM. I 'thought' I was set to get the Rikon but the PM was suggested by a couple of folks who I consider better informed than myself, so I'm looking for feedback from owners of these saws and am open to other options in my price range.

I can get the PM with riser for a tad less than the Rikon, after rebate. My needs are for primarily resawing, I realize 1 1/2hp is minimal but ~$750 is all I can spend on the new bandsaw.
Thanks in advance, this is not a small purchase for me and hopefully I won't regret my decision.
ken
Hi Ken

I don't think I've ever seen the Powermatic, let alone used it so I can't comment on it. I did write a review of my Rikon 10-325 a few months ago. If You haven't seen it, do a search under my name and it should show up. I went with the Rikon because it is designed from the get-go to cut 13" vs. being designed to cut 6" with another 6" afterthought. I may be nuts but that's how I figured it. I haven't really done much with the 10-325 yet but what I have done has been as expected, accurate, stable and adequate power. The Rikon fence is kinda clever once I figured it out; high and low sides, the fence is easily replaced by a higher resaw fence if desired, adjustable for drift. There were motor issues with the early Rikons but I think that problem has been resolved. Rikon's customer service is very responsive.

HTH

Curt

[Kent Novick]

Ken -

I can't comment on the Rikon, but I do have some experience with the Powermatic. I purchased, and subsequently had to return one, about six months ago. I've read some good reviews on it as well, but there are issues to be aware of.

First, there are a number of documented problems with the riser block as Andrew alluded to. I had the same problem, and tried 3 different blocks. Some fit better than others, but I had the following problems with and without the blocks...

The blade wouldn't track any closer than 1/8" off center on the bottom wheel when centered on top. Further, the wheels were no where near coplanar. There really wasn't any good way to adjust them. Either the pins provided good alignment or they didn't.

I did receive excellent customer service from WMH (Jet/Powermatic) in trying to get the saw working properly. The gentleman I worked with, Rick, first sent 2 new riser blocks to try, both to no avail. He then sent over some local saw techs to try to help. They couldn't help fix it either, and definitely believed that the saw (mine at least) had an integral design flaw in the size/alignment of the pins and holes for the upper arm and body. There was way too much play in the way the body/block/arm fit together. When they passed this feedback to WMH, Rick then sent me an entire new upper arm assembly. Unfortunately, all of problems were still there.

After investing way too much time with the saw, I ended up sending back the extra stuff to WMH and returning the original purchase to Woodcraft. There are a lot of good reviews of the saw, and I may have just had some bad luck, but it didn't work out for me. You may also want to call WMH and ask about the riser block and if the problems with it have been fixed. That issue is definitely out there. Good luck!

Kent

[Keith Beck]

Ken,

What a coincidence. I went through the same dilemma yesterday. I went into Woodcraft with the money I had saved all set to buy the Rikon and the guys there tried to steer me towards the PM. They couldn't give me a specific reason why, other than the Rikon Deluxe BS was too new and didn't have an established track record.

I kinda like the fact that the Rikon was made specifically to resaw whereas the PM wasn't, hence the riser block. My brother has the PM, and while he hasn't had any specific issues, he hasn't raved about it.

Anyways, the guys at Woodcraft screwed up my head so much, that ended up not getting any BS and instead, spent my savings on the Performax 16-32 drum sander. :)

Guess I'll need to start saving some money for a BS again and hopefully in the meantime, we'll see some more feedback on the Rikon Deluxe.

Keith

[Charley Preston]

I'm in the same position - ready to buy my first BS. The bummer is that I'm located in Alaska, and all I have access to locally is the PM and going the riser block option. I'd really like the Rikon, but we have no local dealers, and shipping from Woodcraft would probably be about $350.

[James Carmichael]

What Bruce said.

If I were going to spend more than say, $600 on a bandsaw, I'd save a little more and go for a 16-18" machine. The Griz G0513 is under $1000, shipped.

[Ken Massingale]

Thanks for all the replies. I certainly have more information than I did yesterday. I have contacted Powermatic and the local Woodcraft owner for their side of the riser/alighment issue. I absolutely don't want to buy a problem, that's what I'm wanting to get away from with my current bandsaw.

[Scott Rollins]

:o I have the Rikon 10-325 deluxe BS. As long as you rewire it 240V you will have no issues resawing Oak at the full 13". I had some initial issues with the set-up (the fence leaves much to be desired after using the Kreg Fence), but I am pleased with the saw and I would purchase again.

[Randy Klein]

Hi Ken

The Rikon fence is kinda clever once I figured it out; high and low sides, the fence is easily replaced by a higher resaw fence if desired, adjustable for drift.


Curt, I have the Rikon Bandsaw, but I haven't figured out the fence yet. The manual is somewhat lacking on how to adjust for drift.

Can you clue me in on what I'm missing?

[Ken Massingale]

:o I have the Rikon 10-325 deluxe BS. As long as you rewire it 240V you will have no issues resawing Oak at the full 13". I had some initial issues with the set-up (the fence leaves much to be desired after using the Kreg Fence), but I am pleased with the saw and I would purchase again.
Same here, Scott. I have a few weeks of use with the 10-325 and don't regret the purhase at all. I made the multi-use jig from a recent issue of Wood and use that instead of the Rikon fence.
ken

[Randy Klein]

Ken, which issue of Wood is that in?

[Doug Shepard]

I've never used a PM bandsaw, but I've never been real impressed by them any time I've looked them over at WW shows. Dont get me wrong - I generally love Powermatic stuff. I own a PM66 and a PM54 6" jointer, and their lathes are to die for (no room or $$ for one of those yet though). Their bandsaws dont wow me though, and any comparison reviews I've read in the past generally dont have them stacking up all that well against other brands.



... My needs are for primarily resawing, I realize 1 1/2hp is minimal but ~$750 is all I can spend on the new bandsaw.
...
I know there are folks that seem to get good resawing results from a 14" BS, but I wasn't one of them. I finally bit the bullet and upgraded from a Jet 14" w/riser and a bunch of aftermarket accesories to a Minimax. If you're buying primarily for resawing, this might not end up being your last BS purchase. You might be better off in the long run saving up a bit more or shopping for a used machine. I'm not suggesting you go with a MM but something with a heavier, stiffer frame and more HP than the 14"+riser block option. Just my 2 cents.

[Curt Harms]

Curt, I have the Rikon Bandsaw, but I haven't figured out the fence yet. The manual is somewhat lacking on how to adjust for drift.

Can you clue me in on what I'm missing?

The manual is not this machine's strong point:rolleyes:. I did play with it when I was setting it up. I think I loosed the nut under the table and turned the collar with the two flats on it to move the fence bar toward or away from the table. The problem I have with this is that each blade may have its own drift angle so each time I change a blade I'd have to change the fence. I don't think so. I've had excellent success with T'wolf blades not requiring drift correction but I did buy one of these in case I needed it: http://kregtool.com/products/pms/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=42
I just drilled holes in the fence and in the resaw guide so I could use if if necessary. So far, it hasn't been necessary.

HTH

Curt

[Randy Klein]

I thought that's how the drift was adjusted, but it seemed overly complicated compared to the 4 (or 2) bolt method found on most others.

[Az Fred]

No hi-jacking intended....
I would be interested in some comments or discussion of the different frame features of these saws, Pro and Con. The Rikon or steel frame and the PM or 'C' frame.

Most of the newer and larger bandsaws seem to be embracing the steel frame. I need to "pull the trigger" on a small 12" or 14" band saw for a project that I plan to start in 30 to 45 days and this info is both timely and most interesting. I expect that a larger band saw will be in my future as well.

I think this is relevant but if I should start a new thread for this question, please advise.

[Dewayne Reding]

Just bumping this one to the top in case A Rikon 10-325 owner missed the thread. I am seriously considering the Rikon. The resaw capacity is what draws me to it. Barely in my budget though. The Craftman lesser clone looks very good too. (for the money)

[Curt Harms]

Just bumping this one to the top in case A Rikon 10-325 owner missed the thread. I am seriously considering the Rikon. The resaw capacity is what draws me to it. Barely in my budget though. The Craftman lesser clone looks very good too. (for the money)

Hi Dewayne-

If the Craftsman and Rikon aren't legally brothers, their parents had the same milkman:eek::D. I haven't used the Craftsman but did look at it. I do have the Rikon 10-325 deluxe. If I were going to be resawing 100 bd. ft.every day or week, the Rikon 10-325 would probably not be a good choice, get a heavier machine. I may resaw a couple hundred board feet/yr. From what I've heard a carbide blade won't work on 14" wheels, they'll crack and fail prematurely and at $1.50/inch I'm not going to experiment. Some say even 16" wheels are marginal. It may happen that manufacturers will come up with steels that are flexible enough yet strong enough to use carbide tips and run it on 14" wheels. I don't know that is reality yet. I've also heard that carbide blades require a BUNCH of tension. Another choice for longer blade life on 14" wheels might be bimetal blades-I don't have any first hand experience yet with bimetal. I use Timberwolf mostly because given my level of usage, T'wolf blade life is fine. It probably wouldn't be if I were sawing teak or something like that. On ash, oak, walnut & cherry a 2/3 variable pitch 3/4" T'wolf blade provides a surface such that a trip or two through a drum sander yields a surface ready for a quick pass with a ROS and finish. If I get another blade I'd be tempted to get one with more teeth/inch just to try it. Resaw speed would be less but the surface should be even better. I tried a 1/4" 6 tpi blade and that little guy leaves a nice surface, no much sanding required at all.

One lesson I did learn. With my previous band saw I was using a T'wolf blade and resawing fine. One day that thing just would NOT track either horizontally or vertically. I fooled around thinking something happened to the saw. Tinkered & tinkered, no luck. Finally tried a new blade-Eureka!!. If the set of the teeth get messed up the blade will not work. Time for a new blade or at least resetting the teeth if You know how.

Enough random blabbering. Feel free to P.M. me if I can answer any questions. Good luck with your choice.

Curt

[Eddie Darby]

14" bandsaw review:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/upload/contents/335/NOV06PW_40-44_BAND%20SAWS.pdf

nice article:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/upload/contents/335/bandsaws.0603.pdf

[Dewayne Reding]

Thanks to both of you for the info. The reviews were very helpful. The Rikon is clearly better for my needs. Whether it is worth $300+ extra is certainly questionable. The 12" of resaw capability will be nice, though I won't be doing that so much. I won't waste so much lumber running it through the planer.

Curt

What's your opinon of the Rikon fence? Does it need to be upgraded?

[Curt Harms]

Thanks to both of you for the info. The reviews were very helpful. The Rikon is clearly better for my needs. Whether it is worth $300+ extra is certainly questionable. The 12" of resaw capability will be nice, though I won't be doing that so much. I won't waste so much lumber running it through the planer.

Curt

What's your opinon of the Rikon fence? Does it need to be upgraded?

In my opinion, no but You know what they say about opinions;). I've never had to adjust for drift; if I had I might feel differently. In view of the fact that every blade with drift has its' own drift angle every time I changed a blade I'd have to change the fence adjustment. I did make some changes to the Rikon fence. I tossed the knobs and bolts that hold the fence to the "stub"-too light and small-and replaced them with T bolts and better quality larger knobs. Now if I want a 10" high resaw fence, no problem. Get some T track and flat sheet goods and go to work. I use the Rikon fence a little like a unifence. The fence can be slid back to create a European short fence. Why would I want a short fence that ends at the blade? Have You ever ripped a piece of stock that moves big-time as soon as it's cut? With a long fence the stock pushes against the fence and because the fence won't move, it pushes against the blade instead. Real thrill with a table saw, huh? With a short fence the stock can move after being cut without pushing against or binding the blade, circle or band. A band saw isn't as bad but it's still nice if the wild stock isn't pushing against the blade. I also made a high fence with a point guide like the Kreg mentioned above or simply half a large dowel fastened to a "resaw fence" and mounted to the Rikon fence "stub". I'm not home now or I'd take some pics. Here's a couple of my posts if You haven't already seen them:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=49937
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=51342

There's a couple pics of the fence half way down the second post. One thing about the way the fence slides back and forth is when using a single point type fence, I think the high point of the point guide should be lined up with the teeth of the band or nearly so. Construction of the single point fence is less critical when I can slide the fence back & forth to get the point guide properly placed relative to the band teeth.

HTH

Curt

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

To possibly answer the "tracking" question, when re-sawing. There is a round rod extention to the fence. When re-sawing, if you draw a line where you want to cut, you can ride against the rod and follow your line. This should do away with any drift.

Bruce

[Andy Pratt]

I recently purchased the powermatic and used it for a few months before adding on the riser block a couple weeks ago. I haven't done any fine measurements on it, but the saw cuts the way I expect it to with no obvious alignment issues. In general the entire thing is very solidly built. My only complaint would be with the resaw fence attachment which is a ridiculous 2-3" plastic block. Maybe I don't understand how to use it correctly but this just doesn't seem to cut it for resawing. I imagine you would want to build your own fence add-on if you intended to use this extensively for accurate resawing.

[Mike Minto]

I have had the Rikon DeLuxe for a couple of years, now - my only issue with it is my inexperience with bandsaws - this is my first. I am having trouble adjusting the upper guides - I get sparks, and damage more blades than I should. Rikon sent me a new bearing for free, when I told them of my problem, but to no avail. I'm looking into Kreg's blade guide now. The saw seems plenty powerful, and I resaw white oak with little problem (unless it closes up on me during the cut, which will stop the machine). Any other owners replaced their guides? Mike

[Stephen Edwards]

Since you also asked for other options, here's a good 14" BS that's currently on sale. With the riser block added it's right at your budgeted price:

http://grizzly.com/products/14-Extreme-Series-Bandsaw/G0555X

Here's a review that I wrote about this saw last year:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=81302

The resaw fence that comes with this BS is excellent. Furthermore, I've never had to do any adjustments for drift. None.

I'm still a happy customer after using the saw for more than a year.

Good luck with your decision.

[Chris Brault]

I've got the powermatic and am real happy with it. Had some troubles getting everything lined up when I put the riser on,, (everything was on the money before that) had a friend help me do some fine tuning and we got it. I use the timberwolf blades and haven't had any trouble resawing with it. Just my 2 cents, I'm sure the rikon is a nice machine also-

[John Thompson]

Same here, Scott. I have a few weeks of use with the 10-325 and don't regret the purhase at all. I made the multi-use jig from a recent issue of Wood and use that instead of the Rikon fence.
ken

Missed this original post but glad to see you are satisfied with the Rikon. I would have chose to avoid the riser also if in your postion. Just curious as to what blade you are running on re-saw on that 14"?

Regards...

Sarge..

[Nick Mastropietro]

I purchased the PM with the riser block and am pleased with the saw. I have pitched the blade that came with it and armed it with a Timberwolf; it cuts like a hot knife through butter. Pretty well built and for the price you suggest your getting it for, it's a no brainer to me.

[Ken Massingale]

Missed this original post but glad to see you are satisfied with the Rikon. I would have chose to avoid the riser also if in your postion. Just curious as to what blade you are running on re-saw on that 14"?

Regards...

Sarge..
Morning Sarge,
That is the Iturra Blade Runner (Woodslicer) 5/8" blade.

take care my friend.
ken

[Larry Rose]

I have the Ricon and a 14" jet with a 6" riser. The Ricon is smoother running and and able to resaw better that the Jet. I keep a 1/4" blade on the jet and a resaw blade on the Ricon. If I could have only one, it would be the Ricon.