A Sawmill Creek FIRST! (I think?)

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Some of you have heard the "Coffin Story" in the past few days, and I thought I would share it with the rest of the SMC Gang. In short, the College where I work has a Funeral Service/Mortuary Science Department, and I have become good friends with the Department Chair/Professor. Seems he had this neat Coffin that a manufacturer gave him some time ago, and he always wanted to make it into a Bookcase. He found out that I am a Woodworker, and he has been on me for about a year to take on this project. After mulling it over, and growing tired of him asking me to do this for him, I figured, "Why Not"? So, I now have a Coffin in my Shop! :D Solid Cherry, and a beautiful Coffin, as Coffins go, I guess? In the coming months, I will be adding shelves to the interior of the box, and building a base to support the Box, and also to display the top. The Lid will be standing upright on the base, to the left of the Coffin. The challenge will be matching the stain as close as I can to the original finish. I have done some preliminary Staining of some scrap Cherry, and I have come close with Red Mahogany over Wood Conditioner. If anyone has any idea for getting a close match on the new Cherry to the original finish, I would appreciate it VERY, VERY much. I have little experience staining Cherry, and the customer realizes that it won't be an exact match, but I would like to get it as close as I can. Any ideas on staining Cherry, to avoid the blotch's and get a decent match? Thanks in advance for any and all help on this project. The pictures could be better, but a very shiny Coffin is kinda hard to photograph indoors! :D

[Joe Tonich]

Some of you have heard the "Coffin Story" in the past few days, and I thought I would share it with the rest of the SMC Gang. In short, the College where I work has a Funeral Service/Mortuary Science Department, and I have become good friends with the Department Chair/Professor. Seems he had this neat Coffin that a manufacturer gave him some time ago, and he always wanted to make it into a Bookcase. He found out that I am a Woodworker, and he has been on me for about a year to take on this project. After mulling it over, and growing tired of him asking me to do this for him, I figured, "Why Not"? So, I now have a Coffin in my Shop! :D

Any ideas on staining Cherry, to avoid the blotch's and get a decent match? Thanks in advance for any and all help on this project. The pictures could be better, but a very shiny Coffin is kinda hard to photograph indoors! :D

Hi Kevin,

I'm not too good at finishing but I had a thought. If you do get a good match now on Cherry, Wouldn't it still darken more in time and be different? I don't know if I'd like a coffin in the shop, the way my lucks been going. :eek:

Good luck & Happy Holidays.

Joe

[Todd Burch]

Kevin, let's see a picture of you IN that coffin - albeit ALIVE AND WELL! Todd.

[Bob Lasley]

Kevin,

Well, if it doesn't come out to your liking, you could always................bury it! :D I know that's sick, but I have a tendency to make jokes about things that creep me out. I'm with Joe, I don't think I would want a coffin in my shop, as if there would be room for one.

I have to agree with you, it is kind of pretty. I will be looking forward to seeing a pic of the finished project.

Bob

[Chris Padilla]

Kevin (gee, that's my bro's name!),

You might have some luck contacting the manufacturer of the coffin...usually there is some indication of who built it. They might be able to tell you exactly how the finished it.

Before I went to college, I worked for a company out of Spokane, WA, called National Music Service and they almost exclusively dealt with installing music systems (background kind) in funeral homes. I was able to see A LOT of gorgeous caskets (all a lot of other stuff I'd rather not get into :) ) in the funeral home showrooms. I'd often have to wheel them out of my way to run wire!

Chris

[John Miliunas]

Hmmmm...."Count Gersty". Kinda' has a nice ring to it.... :D :cool:

[Keith Starosta]

Kevin,
While I don't have any advice to offer you along the lines of staining this piece, I will say that I am very much looking forward to pics of the final product!!! Good luck with it!

Keith

[Jim Becker]

LOL! That's not a project that I would have thought of, even with my demented mind!

Joe's comments about cherry darkening over time are very important. You may want to use an "alterno-wood" for your shelves that is less prone to this and match the color the way most furniture manufacturers do...building up a lot of color on the surface with glazes and toners. Very rarely do they use "stain" in the context that most hobbyist and small-pro woodworkers do...it takes too much time. Many so-called cherry pieces are birch, maple or alder treated as above.

Hoppy Halidays!

[Dave Richards]

Interesting project.

Is matching the color a requirement? What if you did something as a contrast like maple with a claer finish or only slightly tinted?

I also will be interested in the final results.

Don't get to laying around in it. You might fall asleep and someone would come along and nail the lid on. :eek:

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions so far Guys! No, I have not tried it on for size yet, but at 6"3" long, I think I would fit! ;) I mentioned contacting the manufacturer for information on the finishing process, but we have no idea who made this Coffin. There are no markings on it anywhere, which I found to be unusual? I also mentioned the use of a Contrasting wood, such as Maple, but he really would like the additions to match the best we can get it. My thoughts were leaning toward another wood species besides Cherry to increase the likelyhood of a decent color match...........I know Cherry does not stain well. That is still a possibility at this point. The Coffin is indeed Solid Cherry............under the inside liner, which will be removed, the wood is not finished, and it is definitely Cherry. Perhaps Maple would offer a better opportunity for color matching for the finish? Like I said, I am in no hurry to start or complete the job, so suggestions are very welcome. It needs to be done by April.............but I would just as soon get it done and out of my Shop sooner than later. (Not that it creeps me out, it is just in the way of EVERYTHING!) Keep the thinking caps on fellers....................the more ideas the better for this project! :D

[Dave Richards]

Maybe you hit on it with the maple. A really plane grain and some cherry or mahogany? stain would be the way to get the match.

Do you think the coffin is real cherry or something "white" with stain?

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Kevin. The approach I would take is to get the name of the casket manufacturer from the professor. Then contact them to find out the type and formula of the finish they used. If they are really nice, they might even sell you a quart. Even if it doesn't match exactly, you still have a base-line from which you can work.

For grins, and since this is a once in a lifetime chance, get someone to take some photos of you in various poses in said container, with the lid open, of course. :D

Merry Christmas :)

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Dave, the Coffin is Solid Cherry.............if you would have been here to help carry it down to the shop you would have known right away..........this sucker is HEAVY! There is an area on the inside, under the liner, that is unfinished, and it is for sure Cherry. I think I may take the Maple Approach and do what I can to match the finish. What do you all think, would Maple be more acceptable to an even stain finish than Cherry is? I have not stained Cherry much at all.............I always cringed at the thought of staining Cherry myself. The Wood Speices is not important, just the color match. Man, I love a challenge! :D

[Eric Apple - Central IN]

I think that I could match that color by shooting with alcohol transtint in "antique cherry brown". It would take lot more dye then usual, as it first develops a familar cherry pumpkin color. If you keep laying it on, it will develop the dark red/brown that would match the color you have show pretty well. You can also tweak the color more reddish or brown as needed with additional colors. If you want to avoid the latter dakening of cherry, you can first treat the cherry with lye (I would use about 2 tbs. in 16 oz of water) and give it a real jump start on the aging process. You can also fume cherry to predarken prior to staing for a color match. Both processes do have some danger so be sure to read up on it before trying either method for the first time.

Also, when using dye in very heavy amounts, be sure to make your first top coats very light - and just mist on a sealing coat to avoid resolving the dye into the heavier top coats.

[Mike Evertsen]

are the shelves going to be removable so the the casket can used later??? why put legs and glass on the top it would make a nice coffee table,,,,,

[Alan Turner]

I'm with Eric on this one. I described a process I used on Cherry in the Sideboard/Hutch post, and you might want to take a look. I sanded in the varnish to avoid any blotching, and it worked fine. Once you are using tinted shellac or lacq., just creep up on the final color slowly, and the build up of the film will give you that french polich effect that is already on the coffin. As to the darkening with age, it is sulight which does this, so just take you wood outside for a bit and you will advance the porcess. In addition, since you are going so dark, I am not sure that the slight darkening of the underlying wood will matter/show that much.
Have fun with a fun project.

[Jim DeLaney]

Kevin,
I'd try using a lye solution to 'instant age' the cherry. If the color in your photos is close to accurate, a lye wash will probably darken fresh cherry to something very close to what you've already got.

Using the lye has the advantage of doing the aging all at once, so there will be very little (if any) additional darkening over time.

Of course, the lye is a very caustic and potentially dangerous solution. Be very careful! Eye protection and rubber gloves (at the very least) are mandatory.

[Tony Mazzeo]

Kevin, I know the wood is cherry but it appears to look like mahogany.
If you happen to have some mahogany scraps in the shop, you may want to try staining them to see if you get a good match.

Good luck.

[Mark Hulette]

Kevin,
I know your main conundrum is matching the existing finish but I had a thought while reading the thread about something that might be a neat use of the top.

Since the lining will be removed, and I assume the top is somewhat hollow could you scribe and install smaller shelves in the top for knick knacks and the like? Just a thought.

What's the plan to make it stable when it's standing on end? Interesting project.

[Jim Becker]

Kevin, I know the wood is cherry but it appears to look like mahogany.
If you happen to have some mahogany scraps in the shop, you may want to try staining them to see if you get a good match.
.

Where you run into problem with mahogany is not with color...but with grain and pore size...much larger than cherry. Alder, Maple and Poplar are generally a better match in that respect. They all have "similar" grain patterns to cherry and have a small pore structure that doesn't really show.

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Mark, the top is solid. The Top is actually 2 layers of solid wood, which makes the top flat on the bottom and at least 1" thick, perhaps more, I have not measured it. The plan is to make a base for the box portion to set on, and it will be bolted thru the bottom to the base. That should hold the box portion and be plenty stable, as the base will be wider and deeper than the box. The top, or lid, will be displayed standing on end, just to the left of the Box, which will be the Bookcase itself. I plan on using a cleat on the bottom of the lid, and attach the lid with screws from the rear, thru the cleat and into the lid. I will then secure the lid about 1/2 way up the lid using a kicker if you will, angled down toward the rear of the base. I know this will show some, but that is not our concern at this point................the lid weighs about 50 pounds or so, and we want it secure. The kicker will be on an angle, and screwed to the base and also to a cleat on the back of the lid. This is a Coffin, and was not meant to be a Bookcase, so some sacrifices must be made to make the whole assembly stable. The Color of the Coffin resembles Dark Red Mahogany, and I think that using Alder or perhaps Poplar is my best shot at getting a decent match. I will be picking up a sample of Poplar tomorrow, and seeing what I can accomplish with that. Thanks so much for all the advice, comments and suggestions..........I knew I could count on my Sawmill Creek Friends to help me out with this. I will keep you all updated as to the progress of the project. :D

[Ace Karner]

I think that Jim is on the right track, I'm enclosing a pic of a clock I made that I aged with a lye solution, I finished it with oil and wax but I think with a gloss finish it would be a close match


Kevin,
I'd try using a lye solution to 'instant age' the cherry. If the color in your photos is close to accurate, a lye wash will probably darken fresh cherry to something very close to what you've already got.

Using the lye has the advantage of doing the aging all at once, so there will be very little (if any) additional darkening over time.

Of course, the lye is a very caustic and potentially dangerous solution. Be very careful! Eye protection and rubber gloves (at the very least) are mandatory.

[Tyler Howell]

Creepy

Surfin the net a while back, I ran across some plans to build two coffins. His and hers that make an entertainment center until they are ready for there intended use. EEEEYUUUE!

I also saw “Live” in person a home made coffin for a Packer fan with his team colors, logo, blah, blah, blah, that he displayed in his living room. Nice craftsman ship, looked comfy, didn’t care much for the finish.

TJH

[Jim Harsha]

Kevin, you might try Jeff Jewitts forums at homesteadfinishing.com. I'm sure you would get some very good info from there. That is definately a "once in a lifetime" project.

[David Rose]

Kevin, wound't Mike's idea be a "coffin table"? :D I think some of the coffin kit places suggest doing that as a hedge against the future. :(

The cherry I bought about a year ago for LOML's blanket chest has already darkened a lot on uncovered pieces. There is very little outside light directly where it is racked. I guess it is just reflected sunlight or artificial lights that have done it. What would happen if you just "aged" the wood by leaving it in direct sunlight for a time? After it was milled of course.

David

[Stewart Crick]

Kevin,

On a recent job involving cherry veneer plywood and solid cherry banding I had good luck sealing the units with a 1 pd cut of clear shellac before staining. HTH

Stu

[Terry Quiram]

Kevin

Are you sure the Cherry is stained? Do you have access to a tanning bed? Take a couple of test pieces and "nuke" them with UV. I bet you can get a pretty good color match without frustrating yourself with stains.

Terry

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Yep Terry, the Cherry is stained. You can see on the under side of the Top where the stain finish was what appears to be sprayed on........they feathered the stain just into the field of the top about 6" or so from the edges. I will attach a picture of the underside of the top to illustrate this. We have a tanning salon a few blocks from me, what a great idea................I think I may give that a shot. Thanks for the idea Terry! :D

[Noah Alkinburgh]

Kevin,

How is this going?

I had two thoughts on the shelves, sorry I missed this earlier.

One was to go with temprered glass shelves and add some lighting in the top and bottom...would look pretty cool :D

Two was to use a contrasting wood for the shelves and not match at all but sort of compliment the existing wood...like using flame maple or something.

I did read in detail all the other responses so if this has been covered and ruled out forgive my ignorance.

Noah

[Chris Padilla]

This is funny...I was thinking about this coffin yesterday but only made a meager attempt to locate the thread. Noah found it straight-way, however!:)

So how is it going, Kevin?

:D Buried up to your armpits, yet? :p

Chris

[Steve Inniss]

Kevin,
Just saw this thread for the first time today.
Along the lines of 2 posts by Jim, I'd use a substitute wood and match it up. I recently matched some shelves for cherry cabinets using poplar. It was exactly the same color as what you are trying to get- in the photo anyway. The process was: wood conditioner, minwax cherry, minwax early american.

If you have some poplar around, might be worth a try.
-Steve

[Lynn Sonier]

Just a note to wish you luck on your project and to say that is one gorgeous casket!!!

[Lynn Sonier]

Just a quick note to wish you luck with the project. That is one beautiful piece of cherry wood.

[Larry Harman]

try this site....http://www.boomspeed.com/firstfinish/CherryFinishes01a.htm. plus the "Bible" of finishing is a book called "Understanding Wood Finishes" by Bob Flexner. hope this helps. Larry

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Noah and Chris..............I am getting a few things done with the Coffin Project. I have the stain match just about perfect, and that took quite a bit of trial and error, but I think I have something that will work very well. As far as using glass shelves, lighting, and a contrasting wood, these are all very good options IMO, but the proud owner of this Coffin just wants the shelves, and base to match the exisiting finish. This "Box' belongs to the Program Director of Funeral Service/Mortuary Science Education at the College where I am employed. He knows little or nothing about Woodworking, and I think he has a hard time visualizing how the Coffin would look with Glass Shelving and low voltage lighting, or the use of a Contrasting Wood. The customer is always right, so I will give him what he wants. I will probably pick up the Lumber for the project this weekend, and get started. I have some final details to work out, but I pretty much have the major hurdles covered. I will keep you up to date as to how this project is progressing...........it is a first for me..........but a fun project nonetheless! :D

[James Carpenter]

LOML loves the dark cherry. It took me 3 years of making projects out of cherry before i found out it was just the dark color time gives the cherry. However, with that said my wife always wanted the dark tone. I picked up a can somwhere, sometime of "dark cherry" stain that she really loved, unfortunatly i have been unable to find this since throwing outthe can like a dummy. I have been searching frantically to find it but to no avail (yet). Today though, i received a can of "dark cherry" in the mail from a company named Woodfinishingsupplies.com. I have opened it and it looks very promising. It has a nice deep reddish hue to it, much better than that pumpkin look from other cherry finishes. Blotching can be controlled with a conditioner but even still i have never been able to get rid of it completely. Oh, the coffin looks great, i have been wanting to make one just for the experiance but my wife thinks thats morbid.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

sdsdsdsdsdsdsd

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Aw, come on Alan....................it ain't THAT creepy............heck, I even took the corpse out of it before I brought it home! :p The way I look at is this: The money from this project will spend just the same at the money from any other project! Besides, how many Woodworkers can say they have built a Bookcase from a Coffin!?!? :D

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Aw, come on Alan....................it ain't THAT creepy............heck, I even took the corpse out of it before I brought it home! :p The way I look at is this: The money from this project will spend just the same at the money from any other project! Besides, how many Woodworkers can say they have built a Bookcase from a Coffin!?!? :D

Hi Kevin, With all the turning you've been doing, I thing you'll find some way to turn that baby into a bowl. I've got some ideas on how to mount that on you lathe. Just tell the customer a bowl is a lot nicer than some shelves in a COFFIN. That wood is purdy though. :) Alan in Md.

[Wes Bischel]

Kevin,

Looks like you have things under control, but just FYI. I watched a local cable show a while back that does tours of local manufacturing facilities - and yes they toured a company that made caskets. This company sprayed all of their finishes. From what I could see, the first station laid down a sealer, then after a light sanding it went through 2 or 3 color steps, then finish coat and finally polish. IIRC their finishes were UV cure. It looked like the color coats were something like a tinted laquer.
I may be off a bit - the steel caskets were actually more fascinating especially when they got into all of the mechanics to seal them.

Well, it is definitely a project for the scrap book!!

Wes

[David Blangger]

It must have been given to him a verry long time ago...it is old and the manufacturer was probably York... at any rate they will be glad to help with your questions,,,,, http://www.yorkgrp.com/

I use to be a regional VP in sales for a major marketing company...don't ask :D

[Ken Frantz]

Here is another point to remember.

Some back ground information first.

I built the bookshelves in my study/den using just 2 X 6 white wood and splined them together to make the shelves 11 inches wide. (could have used 2 X 12's but couldn't pick my lumber since it was a special order.

I went through a bunch of 2 X 6's to pick out the nice looking grain and knots etc and used clear Minwax wipe on for the finish.

Now that I have them install and LOADED with books---now where is all of that nice grain and knots I wanted to see???? You guessed it--under the books!!! Should have paid more attension to the edge grain and pretty knots there!!!!!

What I am getting at is make the edges of the shelves that are seen the best looking and pay a little less attention to the surfaces that will be covered with books etc. anyway. Even with just a few things on the shelves, you will not be able to stick your head inside to see what it looks like. And the color of shelves may look just like the rest of the cabinet, but when installed it will have a different look.

IMHO Its like rearends, some have more than one "openion" (sp?)

KEN