Concealed hinge boring jig?

[Hal Flynt]

I will be using compact 35mm cup hinges on a kitchen project and since I have never drilled the cup holes before on any scale, I am defering to the Creek so as not to reinvent the wheel.

So far I have drilled a couple of doors on my small bench top drill press and it’s ok, but I need a jig to at least save time, and avoid the skipping bit that I get when the clamp slips ever so slightly. At present I am thinking a simple plywood surface with a fence that will index off the post f0r the correct depth (distance from the door edge) and then two corner “L’s” to index the desired spacing from top and bottom.

It appears to me that it would be best to set up for say all the top holes, drill them and then set for the bottom holes. I looked at the Jig at Rockler for about $35 that has a big 3-4” hole to index a nother matching device that houses the 35mm bit and includes the depth stop. I don’t have the big bucks for one of those Blum jigs.

How do you guys do it is my question, and thanks in advance.

[Larry Fox]

When I did it for my kitchen I clamped a piece of straight stock to my DP table. This indexed the distance from the side. I then clamped a stop to that board that would index the distance from top to bottom. I drilled all tops and then all bottoms and it worked out great. One thing that I will say about drilling those blasted things is - watch your depth. Don't rely on your DP's depth guage as the last word. For me, I used it as an approximation and kept a hinge close by and "snuck" up on the final depth. Depending on the edge treatment you use on the door things can get pretty close and you don't want to bust through.

All that said, I am just a hobby guy and have only done one kitchen. There are some folks on this board for whom time is money and will likely have better ideas.

Hope it helps . . .

[Bob Lang]

You don't need anything fancy-a fence across the drill press table will set the edge distance consistently. Double check this and the depth of the hole by mounting a hinge in scrap and attaching it to another scrap to see that it swings OK.

I lay out the hinge locations so they are an equal distance from the top and bottom of the door. With a small square mark the center of the bit on the fence, then make a mark on either side the distance you want. As you drill, line up the corner of the door with the mark on the fence. If you stray slightly from the mark, you'll still be OK, the height adjustment in the hinge plate can compensate. If you do this, you can do the top and bottom holes without going through the stack twice, or fiddling with stops on the fence. It will also save you from drilling a left handed door with right handed holes.

My book "The Complete Kitchen Cabinetmaker" covers this in excrutiating detail.

Bob Lang

[Nissim Avrahami]

As Bob Lang said, just mark the center 3"~4" (in EU we use 100mm (4") from the door top and bottom).
The Depth should be aroud 1/2".
The center of the 35mm hole should be 22.5mm from the edge or in English, 57/64" (29/32" is also ok).

I made a jis like in the pic, you just push down the drill with the drill press, into the hole and clamp a fence on the drill press table, at the same time, note the depth on the drill press scale.

niki


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Doorhingejig.jpg


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Doorhinge.jpg

[Jim Becker]

Stick with the drill press, but set up a way to index fence to bit setup as well as right/left. The Rockler Jig-It setup is ok for a very occasional cup hinge, but gets old fast when you have a lot to do. (I bought and used on for my cherry vanity and am going to the DP for the rest of the cabinetry for the addition) A setup block like is shown in previous posts is the way to do your DP setup for bit location relative to the fence as well as setting your depth stop.

Oh...and put your money into a quality 35mm forstner bit if you have not done so already and set your DP to a relatively slow cutting speed. Don't do the entire cut in one plung...several steps so material is cleared from the hole make for best results.

[Nissim Avrahami]

Hal and Jim
There is also a carbide tips 35 mm drill.
I bought it in Israel and it's manufactured by "Woodpecker" (Israel).

Please have a look at this web site
http://wpw.co.il/products.htm

Roll down to "WPW General Catalog" and click on the "Boring and countersink tools (3 pages) to download a PDF.

I made hundreds of holes and still I get nice clean holes

Regards
niki

[frank shic]

hal, your idea of the two L's will definitely work but may introduce a margin for error when you swap the fence to bore the other side. nissim's alingment jig is one of the fastest ways to set the fence. i simply marked 1/8" from the edge of a scrap piece of mdf and then positioned it to correspond with the outer edge of the forstner bit. once you've got it aligned, you can simply slide another scrap up to its edge and clamp it down like he stated. if you want to get really fancy, you can also buy one of the kreg miter tracks with the flip stops which make it pretty easy to swap between the two settings. if you're going to be doing this fairly frequently and especially if you're using inserta hinges (clip-on without ANY screws), i'd highly recommend the euro-eze hinge drill press jig that's sold by woodworker's supply. larry's right about watching the depth. you'd be surprised at how that little bit of difference using stock that's a little shy of 3/4" with a roundover profile plunged 1/8" can cause your forstner's to nibble through the other side!

[Hal Flynt]

I knew I could count on you guys.

Bob, I may even have your book, if not I will look for it. Thanks

Larry, Jim, Niki, and Frank thanks for confirming no need to spend more money on jigs and your tips. A fence it will be, speed noted Jim

Niki, I have a jig from Rockler that is basically yours except in UHDMA (?). No picture in the catalog so I ordered it with some other items. I especially like your dimensions that you have written on the jig. I could never see it in my head why the offset for the center was different between hinges, now I see that it is a function of the thickness of the door, thanks for the light bulb!

I have a carbide bit from WWSupply that seems well made.

Only question in my mind right now, is keeping my doors steady on my rather small table. 80 grit glued to the fence maybe or maybe it’s time to mount a larger table.

Thanks!

[frank shic]

hal, bolt a 2 foot wide board on to your drill press and you won't have problems trying to hold it steady while you're boring away. it takes a little bit of time locating the holes and then finding the right screws at the hardware store but it's well worth the investment. another tip is when you're boring and spinning the handle to try to position your elbow on top of the handle so that you're pushing down with the whole weight of your body instead of just pulling down with your biceps.

CHECK that depth, ok???

[Steve Clardy]

Before I bought my door hinge machine, I used a drill press.

I had a 5' long board bolted down, with a 3/4" high fence attached.

I just a a center mark on the fence for the bit.
Then I had two other marks on the fence. For each door edge. 3" from the center.

And I had the drill stop set on the drill press to just a tad past 1/2" for the cup depth.

Once you get your fence distance set for the door edge, make a setup block to hang on the wall.

[frank shic]

which one are you using, steve? the blum minipress? how much did you get it for? i've heard that professional cabinetmakers can sometimes obtain "loaners" from the hardware company if they buy enough!

[Bruce Wrenn]

They aren't loaners. Just buy a couple of thousand pairs of hinges a month and any supplier will furnish you a hinge boing/ insertion machine. It's your to keep!

[Steve Clardy]

which one are you using, steve? the blum minipress? how much did you get it for? i've heard that professional cabinetmakers can sometimes obtain "loaners" from the hardware company if they buy enough!


Red Baron. Made on Austria
Bought it used from a gal here that listed it in the classifieds last year.

As Bruce said, there are several that furnish hinge machines if you use their hinges.
Last time I checked on that, about three years ago, salice would furnish a machine if I used, bought 300 hinges a month, for two years:eek:
No way I use that many hinges

[frank shic]

well, i guess i'll need a little bit more in the way of clients besides my family before i start cranking out 2 or 3 kitchens a month!!! anyways, here's my low-budget solution for now weighing in at a little more than $600.

[frank shic]

steve, out of curiosity, does the red baron bore the same hole configuration as the blum hinges or will it only work on salice hinges? also, will it bore for metaboxes (10mm holes spaced 32 apart)?

[Bob Lang]

You have to be careful of the hole configuration, some manufacturer's have this in common and some don't. Finding a used machine isn't an everyday thing, but lot's of cabinet shops go out of business. I'd consider $500-$600 for a used machine a good deal. If you're really serious and have the need the boring/inserting machines speed up the process in a mind-boggling way. Most distributors of hardware will sell you a new one for $2000-$3000

Bob Lang

[Steve Clardy]

steve, out of curiosity, does the red baron bore the same hole configuration as the blum hinges or will it only work on salice hinges? also, will it bore for metaboxes (10mm holes spaced 32 apart)?

Not sure Frank.
I've never investigated what all hinge patterns it bores

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello Hal,
Only thing I can add to the above - after doing 19 doors on my DP is:
Use a lot of suction for your chip removal. A lot.

Next to my powered hand planer,,,nothing tosses wood chips like a 35mm forstner bit.

I also used one of the hinges as a go/no go guage and frequently checked my depth and "snuck up on it".


P.S. (huge red faced embarresment - rookie mistake) Be sure to double/triple check the orientation of the doors before you bore.:o :o
Let's just say that it takes a huge amount of water putty to fill the cavity and leave it go at that,,shall we??

[frank shic]

rich has brought up a good point about door orientation. the best way to avoid PAINFUL mistakes is to make sure that the hinges are equidistant from the ends. it also helps if you're not making arched doors which commit you to a direction.

[Steve Clardy]

Hello Hal,
Only thing I can add to the above - after doing 19 doors on my DP is:
Use a lot of suction for your chip removal. A lot.

Next to my powered hand planer,,,nothing tosses wood chips like a 35mm forstner bit.

I also used one of the hinges as a go/no go guage and frequently checked my depth and "snuck up on it".


P.S. (huge red faced embarresment - rookie mistake) Be sure to double/triple check the orientation of the doors before you bore.:o :o
Let's just say that it takes a huge amount of water putty to fill the cavity and leave it go at that,,shall we??



Hear that.
Straight top rail doors aren't to easy to mess up.
But them arched ones--------:o :o

[frank shic]

...not to mention the sizing for the wider rails, rough cutting the profile with the jigsaw/bandsaw, fine trimming with a router and then coping and sticking (make sure you make a couple extra just in case you get major blowout) and then repeating most of that for the raised panel... they sure do look pretty though, dont' they?

:D

[Nissim Avrahami]

Hi Al

I posted a new thread "Amatorski Patentski"
Please have a look at it maybe the first part will "light'" a few more bulbs:)

Regards
niki

[Hal Flynt]

Well this thread has been most helpful!

And your other points about door orientation now have me thinking I like the idea of equal spacing and see where it would certainly solve problems with doors with equal rails. I have always sized my bottom rail about 20-25% larger for base cabinets, and maybe equal to 10% larger on uppers (I have only made a handful of upper doors). Now I have to be careful.

Niki, awesome patents, I Like your boring jig a lot.