Domino Sold Out In Usa!!!

[Dan Lautner]

According to my sources in Germany the Domino will be sold out in the US by the end of next week. Festool had an enormous pre order demand and expects inventory to last no longer than one week from the release date. I was told early august will be the soonest we will see new shipments in the states. I will be at my local festool dealer on friday morning at 6:00 a.m. with an ak-47 in one hand and a machete in the other. Stay out of my way. I plan on making more MT joints friday afternoon than Chippendale made in his lifetime.

Dan

[Bob Childress]

If true, this is the same thing that happened when it was released in Europe and Australia. Sold out almost immediately and then backordered for a month or two. Based on that experience, they must have built a pretty large inventory in anticipation, but still apparently not enough. Once the initial flurry settles down, they will be able to predict the flow of equipment and adjust their manufacturing accordingly. :)

[Glen Blanchard]

Hmmmmm......Lets' see..........Domino sold out...........Next shipment from Germany may not be until August..........Mine should get here next week.............Hmmmmmm.........Anyone want to buy a brand new, never used Domino? Of course, considering the supply and demand issue at hand, there will be a "slight" premium to pay. ;)

[Loren Hedahl]

Sounds like they're selling them too cheap.

Loren

[Bob Marino]

Dan,

I haven't heard that, though the pre-orders are tremendous.

Bob

[glenn bradley]

Remember Cabbage Patch Dolls, Beanie Babies and Play Station 3's???

[Cary Falk]

EBAY. If you act quick enough you could get probably 1.5 times the cost out of it.

[Per Swenson]

Cary,

For me that would be plain silly.

I like math. Go figure.

For every single hour of uninterrupted use, this machine pays for itself.

Its not like scalping tickets and to be profitable you would have to own

10 or 20 and still keep one. Providing you are a builder and not a tool

speculator.

Per


EBAY. If you act quick enough you could get probably 1.5 times the cost out of it.

[Greg Cole]

Bob,
Mind sharing how many domino's you have been alloted or maybe how many of them are already spoken for?
Just curious....

Greg

[Mark Engel]

Remember Cabbage Patch Dolls, Beanie Babies and Play Station 3's???

Don't date yourself. My wife waited in line all night one Christmas season many years ago to get a cabbage patch kid for my daughter. My daughter will be 31 in a couple of weeks. ;)

[Bob Marino]

Bob,
Mind sharing how many domino's you have been alloted or maybe how many of them are already spoken for?
Just curious....

Greg

Greg,

There is no shortage of Dominos...at this point.

Bob

[Mark Singer]

My test drive cd had this Superman like descrition...

"More flexible than a biscuit joiner "

"able to leap large workbemches with a single bound...."

"look in the sustainer.....its a mortiser ...its a wafel maker ...no ....its a new joint maker from Festool...."


"Hey man.......dude .....I still just do them by hand......cooooooool.... like back in the 60's when we played records and sat around and listened":confused:

[Glenn Clabo]

LOL...And this was real woodworking put to use...

[Per Swenson]

Oh to return to the good old days, sigh.

You remember, uphill too school both ways, barefoot in a blizzard,

south of Miami. When Mom and dad traveled like this....

Per

[Mark Singer]

LOL...And this was real woodworking put to use...
That is a great design!

[Ted Miller]

Per, My pops used to use the uphill to school both ways in the snow with no shoes. My pops grew up in SE Michigan during the depression with 13 brothers and sisters and they ate lard sandwiches. Now that one scared me a lot when I was growing up. So I got a job as soon as I could walk...

[John Gornall]

When using a bisquit joiner handheld there is often a little movement when cutting - place it on the mark, cut, and on the return it's a little off the mark. The design of a bisquit allows for movement and it's easy to align the parts when gluing.

Is there any movement with the Domino and if there was is there any wiggle room with the Domino tenons?

[Art Mulder]

Is there any movement with the Domino and if there was is there any wiggle room with the Domino tenons?

John, I watched the festool demonstration videos on youtube, and yes there is wiggle room. First you cut all the mortises on one piece of wood, with the hole set "tight" then when you switch to the next piece of wood, you turn a dial that makes the mortises just a bit wider, which gives some wiggle room. Looks ingenious.

[Pete Brown]

When using a bisquit joiner handheld there is often a little movement when cutting - place it on the mark, cut, and on the return it's a little off the mark. The design of a bisquit allows for movement and it's easy to align the parts when gluing.

Is there any movement with the Domino and if there was is there any wiggle room with the Domino tenons?

I haven't tried one yet (mine is coming soon), I don't think this will pull in quite the same way a biscuit jointer does. A Biscuit Jointer has a circular blade that spins in one direction and tends to pull just a tiny bit that way. The domino exerts force both left and right with its oscillating motion

It'll be interesting to see.

Pete

[Bruce Page]

Remember Cabbage Patch Dolls, Beanie Babies and Play Station 3's???
Don't forget Elmo..:rolleyes:

[David Dundas]

My experience during the six months that I have owned a Domino is that you have to be much more careful than is the case with a biscuit joiner to ensure that the fence is held flat on the workpiece, and that the workpiece itself is square. Unless the mortises for a domino are exactly perpendicular to the face of the joint, the joint will not fit together properly. For this reason I have found it necessary, when cutting a mortise in a workpiece with a relatively small cross-section, to clamp a cleat behind the workpiece, and level with it, in order to ensure that the Domino's fence stays flat on the workpiece. With a biscuit joiner, it would not matter much if the slot were cut at 89° to the face of the joint, but, with a Domino, it would, because the domino tenons are such a snug fit in the mortises.

David

[John Gornall]

Like every tool there will be a few little tricks that will have to be learned. I look forward to trying a Domino someday.

Thanks for the insight.

[Rick Christopherson]

According to my sources in Germany the Domino will be sold out in the US by the end of next week. Festool had an enormous pre order demand and expects inventory to last no longer than one week from the release date. I was told early august will be the soonest we will see new shipments in the states. I will be at my local festool dealer on friday morning at 6:00 a.m. with an ak-47 in one hand and a machete in the other. Stay out of my way. I plan on making more MT joints friday afternoon than Chippendale made in his lifetime.

Dan I believe this is a troll, and an irresponsible one at that. Domino inventory is not kept in Germany, it is kept in the U.S. Moreover, anybody that knows how the Festool production system works (a.k.a. this supposed German insider) knows that it does not take 6 months to switch the production line over to produce U.S. models---it takes 60 seconds, and it is done EVERY day, SEVERAL TIMES a day.

It is discrepencies like this that tells me that there is no insider, but the story was invented by Mr. Lautner for sensationalism. Taking a look at this poster's history further supports this notion.

There is no doubt that Domino pre-orders are very high, and I have predicted as much ever since I first became aware of its existence two years ago. But presenting such information without foundation is extremely irresponsible.

[Pete Bradley]

I'm with Rick. Enough breathless posts about tools, especially Domino.

Pete

[Alan Schaffter]

Forget the Domino, what about the Kapex?

[Gary Keedwell]

A couple months ago there was alot of incendiary remarks made before knowledge of said tool was readily available. I have filtered useful information from the murky waters from various sources in the interim. Alot of my information has been from reputable and knowledgeable woodworkers who have actually used this tool and reported on it. Consequently, I have gained respect for what the tool is and what it can do.
I just hope in the future that when a new tool comes out, that we ALL can refrain from the hoopla and just talk about it without inflaming each other.
I know I will try harder.
Gary K.:o

[Mark Hudson]

Isn't Kapex a Kevin Spacey movie?

[Greg Millen]

It will be interesting to see some actual sales figures. If it isn't exceptionally well received I for one would be interested to know why. Not because of the tool itself but it would indicate a significant difference in the US market to the rest of the world.

And what about the safety recall? Has anyone got any info on that? Rumour has it the release will be delayed for three weeks while they sort it out.




(just joking folks, there's no recall :D )

[Rick Christopherson]

Greg,
It's a good thing you are from the far side of the planet or I would have to walk over there and slap you for that little joke :D. (or swim over there, as the case would be.)

I don't have any Domino sales figures, and if I did, I probably couldn't post them, but I suspect the sales figures for the U.S. market are going to be higher than average from other markets, as compared with other Festool products.

Festool's target market is not the DIY'er, and they have no interest in pursuing this. This comes first-hand from a presentation by the head of Festool-Germany (I'm sorry, but I can't find his business card at the moment, but he is like the CEO of all of Festool). This is part of the reason why Festool will not permit big-box stores to carry their products, and why they will never cut corners on product development in exchange for cost.

The bottom line is that they don't want to be competitive with DeWalt and the like. They don't want to sell the high-volume, low cost tools. This is written right into their published, corporate business plan. There was a graph of the market they presented. There is a competative market in the low-cost tools, and another competative market in the high cost tools. Between these two areas is the "black area of death" where a tool is neither the best, nor the cheapest. Festool strives to stay above this area, whereas DeWalt (and others) strive to stay below this area. Any company that operates within this black area, doesn't do so for long.

Festool-USA on the other hand understands that the DIY market in the U.S. is far stronger than it is in other parts of the world, so they do make attempts to reach out to this market more than other divisions of the Festool group.

It isn't so much that Festool is reaching down toward the DIY market, as it is that the U.S. DIY market is reaching upward toward Festool. Ten years ago the average DIY woodworker could only dream of the day they could buy a full cabinet saw (Unisaw). Today, the percentage of DIY'ers that have Unisaws is much, much higher. The market has moved upward in the U.S. DIY market.

The thing with Domino, is that it is a product concept that, by its very nature, spans both professional and DIY markets. So regardless of Festool-Germany's published business plan, this tool will have deep-reaching impact into the DIY market.

[Bob Marino]

Greg,
It's a good thing you are from the far side of the planet or I would have to walk over there and slap you for that little joke :D. (or swim over there, as the case would be.)

I don't have any Domino sales figures, and if I did, I probably couldn't post them, but I suspect the sales figures for the U.S. market are going to be higher than average from other markets, as compared with other Festool products.

Festool's target market is not the DIY'er, and they have no interest in pursuing this. This comes first-hand from a presentation by the head of Festool-Germany (I'm sorry, but I can't find his business card at the moment, but he is like the CEO of all of Festool). This is part of the reason why Festool will not permit big-box stores to carry their products, and why they will never cut corners on product development in exchange for cost.

The bottom line is that they don't want to be competitive with DeWalt and the like. They don't want to sell the high-volume, low cost tools. This is written right into their published, corporate business plan. There was a graph of the market they presented. There is a competative market in the low-cost tools, and another competative market in the high cost tools. Between these two areas is the "black area of death" where a tool is neither the best, nor the cheapest. Festool strives to stay above this area, whereas DeWalt (and others) strive to stay below this area. Any company that operates within this black area, doesn't do so for long.

Festool-USA on the other hand understands that the DIY market in the U.S. is far stronger than it is in other parts of the world, so they do make attempts to reach out to this market more than other divisions of the Festool group.

It isn't so much that Festool is reaching down toward the DIY market, as it is that the U.S. DIY market is reaching upward toward Festool. Ten years ago the average DIY woodworker could only dream of the day they could buy a full cabinet saw (Unisaw). Today, the percentage of DIY'ers that have Unisaws is much, much higher. The market has moved upward in the U.S. DIY market.

The thing with Domino, is that it is a product concept that, by its very nature, spans both professional and DIY markets. So regardless of Festool-Germany's published business plan, this tool will have deep-reaching impact into the DIY market.Rick,

Rick,

Well said. That was either Horst Geiger or Dr. Weiss from Festool and some 4 years ago, myself and some other Festool dealers were invited to Germany and given a similar presentation by Mr. Geiger.
When the initial price of the Domino was announced, I recieved an email from a very thoughtful and well meaning (potential customer), who said the Domino is priced too high for the American hobbyist market. Although he could afford it, Festool could do better (sell more/attract the hobbyist) if they priced it lower, essentially making more profit by the vast increase in the number of units sold. This was the marketing strategy that was used successfully, according to him, by some high other high end (non tool) companies.
The reply from Festool's USA's CEO, mirrored Mr. Geiger's comments. Yes, Festool could sell way more Domino's that way, but high volume at the expense of quality is not Festool's marketing strategy.
Maybe this has to do with the fact that they are still (after 85+ years) a privately owned, and if memory serves, a family owned company. Of course I am biased concerning Festool, no question, but I am so glad that they are not following the trend to compromise quality for next month's sales reports.
I don't have figures, but my guess the Domino will be one of Festool top 3 or 4 top sellers.

Bob

[Jim Becker]

Let's be careful of, umm...April Fools Jokes...on contentious subjects, folks... ;)

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Mike Goetzke]

Sounds like they're selling them too cheap.

Loren

.....I'm waiting for the HF knock-off.

[Dan Clark]

...
The bottom line is that they don't want to be competitive with DeWalt and the like. They don't want to sell the high-volume, low cost tools. This is written right into their published, corporate business plan. There was a graph of the market they presented. There is a competative market in the low-cost tools, and another competative market in the high cost tools. Between these two areas is the "black area of death" where a tool is neither the best, nor the cheapest. Festool strives to stay above this area, whereas DeWalt (and others) strive to stay below this area. Any company that operates within this black area, doesn't do so for long.

Festool-USA on the other hand understands that the DIY market in the U.S. is far stronger than it is in other parts of the world, so they do make attempts to reach out to this market more than other divisions of the Festool group.

It isn't so much that Festool is reaching down toward the DIY market, as it is that the U.S. DIY market is reaching upward toward Festool. Ten years ago the average DIY woodworker could only dream of the day they could buy a full cabinet saw (Unisaw). Today, the percentage of DIY'ers that have Unisaws is much, much higher. The market has moved upward in the U.S. DIY market.
...

Rick,

Excellent post.

I view Festool's strategy to stay at the high end as extremely positive. Over the last 5 years (10 years?), the quality of tools sold by the big box stores has gone steadily downward. Prices have dropped or stayed the same, but quality has decreased.

For example, consider the Dewalt DW718 replacing its predecessor the DW708. (I almost bought a DW718.) The 718 has new and better features, but a commensurate drop in quality. The 718's head is floppy compared to 708 and the castings aren't as good. Dewalt used to make higher-end tools. Now they are in the middle tier and dropping.

Unfortunately Dewalt is in the "black area of death" as you call it. They chose to go down the price curve.

Like many other companies, Bosch has followed them. Some of their tools are still quite good, but many (most?) are produced at the lowest cost and are now mediocre.

Now match this with another trend - baby boomers retiring. I'm 60. I'm a contract software developer and am still happy doing what I do best - developing database software. But sometime in the next ten years, like many other baby boomers in the last five years and many more in the next ten years, I'll retire. I've worked hard for the last 40+ years and like many baby boomers have reached a point where I can afford better things. My point is that after accepting mediocre quality much of my life, I now choose not to.

In the next 10 years, you will see a flood of relatively affluent retirees hitting the streets. We will have excess available time, some available funds, and the willingness to spend both time and money on satisfying and fun pursuits. These retirees are thinking... "I've worked all my life. Why struggle with poor quality tools!?! It's time to treat myself!"

Into the path of this incoming flood of retirees steps Festool with high-quality (albeit expensive), innovative, effective, compact, light weight tools that meet their needs. Keeping the price high is unfortunate, but it allows Festool to keep the quality high and the innovation continuing.

IMO, retiring baby boomers now and in the future comprise and will comprise much of Festool's DIY market in the US of A.

Regards,

Dan.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

the Domino will be sold out in the US by the end of next week.
Wow. They really generated some industry buzz. I wouldn't be a pioneer for a tool that pricey but ya might be OK with FesterTool cause they do make pretty good tools.

Maybe in a few years I'll think about getting one. By then inventory should have recovered.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

.....I'm waiting for the HF knock-off.

Ha Ha

Word dude !

[Gary Keedwell]

Just a little to add on to the baby boom theory stated above. I have put position in the position to be fairly comfortable (I'm a boomer) in my retirement years but many have not. I personally know of boomers who have no retirement plan and no savings. They tell me they will have to rely on Social Security (ha! ha!) or work till they drop.
I don't think SS will handle 75,000,000 baby boomers. I do not think that the retiring people will effect the sales of very high end tools. Most boomers have been preparing by collecting as we go along. I personlly think that the 40- 60 year age group will continue to dominate the sales. I think people buy more when paychecks are still coming in and don't want to dip into retirement money for a hobby. If you don't believe me ask my LOML. She has plans for ALL our re tirement money!!! :D
Gary K.

[Bill White]

Goes to show ya that all the grousing about the prices on Festool products is reflected in the supply/demand stream. Sold out? Too high? NAAHHHHHH.
They have a great product, and we want 'em. Guess that they aren't too high after all. (Chuckle.)
Bill

[Dan Lautner]

"It is discrepencies like this that tells me that there is no insider, but the story was invented by Mr. Lautner for sensationalism. Taking a look at this poster's history further supports this notion.

There is no doubt that Domino pre-orders are very high, and I have predicted as much ever since I first became aware of its existence two years ago. But presenting such information without foundation is extremely irresponsible."


Don't get so offended by an april fools joke big fella. You sound like the FBI analyzing a homicide case. Relax a bit and go buy a domino.

Dan

[Al Willits]

"""""""""""
For every single hour of uninterrupted use, this machine pays for itself.
""""""""""

$900 an hour????
Boy did I pick the wrong profession....;)

Is kinda like PS3 and Stones tickets....:)

Al

[Pete Brown]

So for those of us who pre-ordered (from Mr Marino in this case), when will Festool drop them to us?

I know the release day is today, but I assume that is the day they'll be shipped, not the day they'll arrive.

Anyone have Festool drop ship before? I've always picked my bits up locally.

Pete

[Gary Keedwell]

Goes to show ya that all the grousing about the prices on Festool products is reflected in the supply/demand stream. Sold out? Too high? NAAHHHHHH.
They have a great product, and we want 'em. Guess that they aren't too high after all. (Chuckle.)
Bill

Who is this WE you are talking about? Did you take a poll? Who and where did you poll? Inquiring minds would like to know.:confused:

Gary K.

[Per Swenson]

Al,

I have had a Domino for 3 months or so.

Lets do the math.

I can cut a mortise with setup one every 10 seconds.

6 a minute.

360 in one hour.

On the job. In your house. With No dust.

Any project I make for you that needs 360 M/T joints

is going to cost about 10 dollars less then a year at Yale.

So what's 900 clams?

Bait at that point.


Per

[Jim Becker]

I don't know about machine shipments, but I DID get my brochure in the mail today...quite a centerfold... :)

[Bill Esposito]

When using a bisquit joiner handheld there is often a little movement when cutting - place it on the mark, cut, and on the return it's a little off the mark. The design of a bisquit allows for movement and it's easy to align the parts when gluing.

Is there any movement with the Domino and if there was is there any wiggle room with the Domino tenons?John,
Did you get your answer? The answer is sure, if you're not careful the Domino can move. I've seen it move a bit when plunging quickly into hardwood before I was really ready to plunge and hadn't securely placed the Domino. The Domino has a pair of plastic grippers which help prevent the tool from moving as well.

Another thing I noticed is that the cutter tends to self center. You might see the Domino move a hair to the left but then because the bit is swinging left and right, it seems to pull itself back on center.

In my review there is a test where I use the Cross Stop to position the mortises. Four mortises in each piece indexed off four different places, using the exact fit setting and everything goes together perfect.

When doing a long run of mortises like in an edge join, you just set the width for the middle setting and you'll have plenty of play. You will find however that you can place the mortise so precisely that you really dont need to use the wider settings all that often.

[Bill Esposito]

So for those of us who pre-ordered (from Mr Marino in this case), when will Festool drop them to us?

I know the release day is today, but I assume that is the day they'll be shipped, not the day they'll arrive.

Anyone have Festool drop ship before? I've always picked my bits up locally.

PeteFestool shippng has always been pretty quick in my experience. I just hope all you guys getting Dominos dont slow up my receiving my second MFT, I'm only home for a few days next week in order to receive it off the truck before I head out again :)

[Bob Childress]

So for those of us who pre-ordered (from Mr Marino in this case), when will Festool drop them to us?

I know the release day is today, but I assume that is the day they'll be shipped, not the day they'll arrive.

Anyone have Festool drop ship before? I've always picked my bits up locally.

Pete

Bob told me they would ship today. Should have them early next week. :)

[Rich Person]

So for those of us who pre-ordered (from Mr Marino in this case), when will Festool drop them to us?

I know the release day is today, but I assume that is the day they'll be shipped, not the day they'll arrive.

Anyone have Festool drop ship before? I've always picked my bits up locally.

Pete

I received my email notice today that the shipment was on its way. It won't arrive until next Thursday for me. But, that is okay because I won't have time to use it until then anyway.

[Ken Milhinch]

Don't get so offended by an april fools joke big fella. You sound like the FBI analyzing a homicide case. Relax a bit and go buy a domino.

Dan

An April Fool's joke posted on 29th March ?? What calendar are you using ?

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Don't get so offended by an april fools joke big fella.

I thought jokes were supposed to be funny. :rolleyes:

[Greg Millen]

Greg,
It's a good thing you are from the far side of the planet or I would have to walk over there and slap you for that little joke :D. (or swim over there, as the case would be.)... ... snip ... ...

The thing with Domino, is that it is a product concept that, by its very nature, spans both professional and DIY markets. So regardless of Festool-Germany's published business plan, this tool will have deep-reaching impact into the DIY market.Rick, that's well written and easily understood. Funny thing about it though, if I replaced the references to the US with "Australia" no-one over here would blink an eye. Having lived in the US for a number of years I'd say the levels of DIY are pretty much equal, with the US leading (generally) with tool ownership by maybe a year or two - although we did get the domino first :p:D.

I used to live next door to a builder in GA and over the years we shared a LOT of tricks and suggestions. Often we would just watch how the other went about things as our approaches were quite different. Generally though we both liked to do things ourselves, or with a friend, and derived a lot of satisfaction from it. In that respect we are no different at all.

[Ken Milhinch]

Generally though we both liked to do things ourselves, or with a friend, and derived a lot of satisfaction from it. In that respect we are no different at all.

You are talking about woodwork aren't you ?;) :D

[Dave Falkenstein]

Just a little to add on to the baby boom theory stated above. I have put position in the position to be fairly comfortable (I'm a boomer) in my retirement years but many have not. I personally know of boomers who have no retirement plan and no savings. They tell me they will have to rely on Social Security (ha! ha!) or work till they drop.
I don't think SS will handle 75,000,000 baby boomers. I do not think that the retiring people will effect the sales of very high end tools. Most boomers have been preparing by collecting as we go along. I personlly think that the 40- 60 year age group will continue to dominate the sales. I think people buy more when paychecks are still coming in and don't want to dip into retirement money for a hobby. If you don't believe me ask my LOML. She has plans for ALL our re tirement money!!! :D
Gary K.

Gary - My own personal experience is that your theory works just the opposite. Although I am a few years beyond the baby boomer era, I did collect tools when I was younger - mostly Sears Craftsman stuff. I was reluctant to spend for the higher quality tools when I was younger, because there were so many other priorities for our money - kids, college, house, etc.

When the kids were grown, educated and on their own, and we downsized our house to something more easily affordable, I found that even though we had less income, we had more money to do things we wanted to do. I began replacing the Craftsman tools with better brands. At this point I have no Craftsman power tools and a shop full of pretty good quality brands, including quite a few Festool products.

I am even thinking I might buy a Domino for my next project that requires a bunch of biscuits. I can't "justify" one - I just want one.

[Gary Keedwell]

Gary - My own personal experience is that your theory works just the opposite. Although I am a few years beyond the baby boomer era, I did collect tools when I was younger - mostly Sears Craftsman stuff. I was reluctant to spend for the higher quality tools when I was younger, because there were so many other priorities for our money - kids, college, house, etc.

When the kids were grown, educated and on their own, and we downsized our house to something more easily affordable, I found that even though we had less income, we had more money to do things we wanted to do. I began replacing the Craftsman tools with better brands. At this point I have no Craftsman power tools and a shop full of pretty good quality brands, including quite a few Festool products.

I am even thinking I might buy a Domino for my next project that requires a bunch of biscuits. I can't "justify" one - I just want one.
Dave-
I also down-sized a few years ago but now I have the shop (size-wise) I always wanted. Although the money situation has definetely improved, I still find myself trigger shy where buying tools is concerned. I'm in a unique position because LOML actually encourages me to buy more material possessions. (tools)
I'm ready to place a big order with uncle Bob, but find myself procastinating. I hate to say this, but it was alot easier to spend money before I went " on the wagon" last year.:o

Gary K.