The best 3HP router for a table: one of two

[Michael Marcinelli]

Folks, i need you! Having trouble deciding between 2 routers: Bosch 1619, Milwaukee 5625. I dropped the PC 7518 from the list only because I'm trying to avoid the $300 lift expense and the other two seem to have adequate lift mechanisms built in. Although not quite as convenient as a lift I can't justify the extra expense. It'll be mounted to a table nearly all of the time. I'll use a smaller/lighter router for handheld.

The plunge-type of the 1619 seems less than ideal than the 5625 fixed base but I haven't heard too many negatives about using a 1619 in a table. Around the forums the 5625 seems to be more loved and used in a table and the 1619 gets less attention for a table mounted use but it has several features the 5625 doesn't have: 2.75" cut depth (vs. 1.75" for the 5625), spins down to 8k for larger bits (vs only 10k for 5625), self-releasing collet for one wrench bit removal and it has a plunge if I ever do need it.

Anyone out there with experience with these? Gulp!

TIA,
Michael

[Jim Becker]

Of the two, I'd likely choose the red one...but those extra features on the Bosch could be nice if you really feel them to be important.

[Mark Engel]

I guess I can't help you there.

I have been using the PC 7518 for many years in my router table. Haven't really found a pressing need to have one of those lift mechanisms you speak of. The PC 7518 has a very nice 'lift mechanism' built in. You simply rotate the motor in the base. There are markings on the ring to tell you how much you have raised or lowered the bit in 64th of an inch with plenty of room to figure half of one of those, so 128th of an inch. I guess you can get more accurate, but for what reason, when wood will expand or contract more than that when it thinks about moisture.

[Dan Drager]

I have the Milwaukee and could NOT be happier! I keep it fixed to the table. Power, smooth start up, and everything is tight so sawdust does not build up in any moving parts.

[Jeff Weight]

I guess I can't help you there.

I have been using the PC 7518 for many years in my router table. Haven't really found a pressing need to have one of those lift mechanisms you speak of. The PC 7518 has a very nice 'lift mechanism' built in. You simply rotate the motor in the base. There are markings on the ring to tell you how much you have raised or lowered the bit in 64th of an inch with plenty of room to figure half of one of those, so 128th of an inch. I guess you can get more accurate, but for what reason, when wood will expand or contract more than that when it thinks about moisture.

I second everything Mark said.

[Peter Elliott]

I have to dig around but a WW mag did a review on best routers for tables. Triton won... I look around for it Tues and post. Not that WW mags are gospel but could help.

Peter

[Bob Malone]

I agree with Mark and Jeff regarding the PC7518. Mine stays in the table and it is the workhorse of the shop. Dead accurate and it never gives me any grief. It isn't as sexy as many new routers but it is still does the job it was intended for.
Good luck on your search.

[Michael Marcinelli]

bob/mark/jeff,
do you use a lift with the pc 7518 or is it reasonable to raise/bit change without a lift?

[Michael Marcinelli]

for the 5625 owners out there, do you use a plate or just cut a small hole in the table and direct mount? do you use a lift?

[Don Selke]

I have the Hitachi M12 router in my router table at the present time. It has been a real work horse for me and is still going strong. If and when I have to replace it, I will go with the PC 7518. Hitachi had a real winner with the M12 and M12V but from what I have heard, the current replacement unit has some problems.

[Scot Ferraro]

I have the 5625 mounted in a Bench Dog table and plate -- works great. I drilled a 3/4 inch hole for the height adjustment. Everything about this router is beefy and the size of the opening will swing the biggest of bits. It is also light enough for such a big router that hand-held is possible and it comes with two styles of grips if you are inclined to use it that way. I myself mounted it in the table and I have left it there. IMHO I think that a fixed base is the way to go in a table and save the plunge router for hand-held use. I do not think that using two wrenches is that big of a deal (I have both styles). The wrenches are heavy-duty forged also (not stamped).

[scott spencer]

I've got the 5625 and am happy with it. I have a good friend with a 1619 and he's thrilled with that as well. Not sure you can go too wrong with either one. The 5625 has received several high ratings as a table router. Mine's mounted on a phenolic plate that works out well for me.

I'd go with whichever one you like best or can get the best deal on.

http://www.epinions.com/MW5625 (http://www.epinions.com/content_245903494788)

[CPeter James]

I have the 5625 and use it a lot. It stays mounted to a phenolic plate. When you mount it, turn it 45º so the the lift adjusting hole is not under the fence. I find it easy to adjust. I bought a switch from Rockler so that I can control the off/on from the front of the table. It is mount on the right end of my 52"+ saw table. To change bits, I just drop it out and set the router on the table and do it. It goes in and out so easy it is not worth trying to do through the table.

CPeter

[Michael Marcinelli]

don and bob (and anyone else),
why would you go for the 7518 rather than the 5625?
same question for 5625 lovers. why the 5625 over the 7518?

[pat warner]

Some notes on router selection at the link. (http://patwarner.com/selecting_router.html)

And some current notes on the 2 below:
____________________

Both (7518 & 5625) routers rout well on wood but the mill finish on wood, plastic and alumium is superior and remarkable with the 5625.
There are advantages and tradeoffs with both machines with respect to performance and adjustment.
Neither, in my view, wins over the other if you weigh each feature against the other. Both are relative headaches used right side up or upside down. You must (choose one or the other) because there is no third choice in this category.
The 7518 wraps its wire up as you change depth and its motor jams in the base casting if left upside down working with the same cutter too long. Its electronics are less than stellar but its motor travel and strength are second to none. The 7518 is the better, heavier motor with more travel through its casting with the worst motor lock in history. Its armature is very well journaled in its barrel and 2 out of the 4 well used units I have, have no axial or radial play. Both the 5615 and 5625 motors were sloppy when new!
The 5625 has a first class motor lock, switch, electronics and collet. A lousy acme screw depth adjuster, numbers you can't read upside down, hard to hit target depth, no motor escape lock, a switch that is hard to find, a hard-soft start, and a light weight motor, armature and base casting. Lacks the momentum of the 7518.
Both are great value but neither is a great router. There are a couple of near perfect routers but these are not in that class.

These comparisons can go on. Neither tool is great for this user. Notwithstanding, mill finish, a critical variable for me at this time, is as good as it get in the MIlwaukee 5625.
Upshot; Even tho the 5625 is sloppy, imagine how good a new one must be. And even if it wears it will work admirable with substantial axial & radial play. A craziness I can't believe.

[Brian Weick]

PC 7518 - spend a little extra and get the Cadillac - I own one and it is well worth the money.
Brian

[glenn bradley]

I have the 5625 and need to remind myself to take multiple passes on deep cuts because it just doesn't care. It's pretty powerful. The above the table adjustment is "OK" and I am using it. The downside is that the cam-type locking mechanism means that for the motor to be moved the cam is open. This allows a little slop during adjustment and the height increases about .001 -.002 when you lock it (just my experience).

While I wait to justify a lift, this is working well and I would buy one again in a heartbeat. You'll notice that several vendors now make lifts and other goodies that are designed for this router without adaptation.

The electronic speed control is great and the motor removes easily for bit changes. I pulled the handles and mounted the base in the table. Other than an old 2HP that I keep a chamfering bit in as a task-specific router, the Mil stays in the table all the time.

[Stephen Clem]

Why do you need a lift for the PC when it has depth adjustment by turning the base? Can someone elaborate a bit more on how a lift works and why they are used despite the router already having the adjustment?

Pat,

You say you have to choose one or the other because there's no others in that class. For those of us who don't need this much power, what is the "near perfect" routers that you speak of. I am looking for a dedicated table router with decent height adjustment. Was thinkning about the DeWalt DW618PK (wanted the multi-based just in case the need ever arose to plunge). THANKS!

[Michael Marcinelli]

thanks, pat, for sharing your immense wealth of knowledge. its been a big help. i assume you'd go with the 5625 over the bosch 1619 (mainly for table use)?

also, i think i'll take your advice and direct mount it but how do you mount a 5625 to a table w/o a plate? are there exposed, but recessed, flathead screws/washers on the top of the table? if so, will the recessed screws dig into an MDF table over time?

michael

[Mark Engel]

bob/mark/jeff,
do you use a lift with the pc 7518 or is it reasonable to raise/bit change without a lift?
I do not use a lift with the 7518. I just rotate the motor in the base for height adjustment. It IS a bit of a pain though. You have to reach under the table to un-screw the locking mechanism and then turn the motor to raise or lower the bit, then tighten the lock down. A lift would make this process easier for sure. I guess I have just gotten used to doing this way and haven't justified the expense of a lift, yet.

[Mark Engel]

for the 5625 owners out there, do you use a plate or just cut a small hole in the table and direct mount? do you use a lift?
I do have the router mounted to a plate. I purchased the plate, I think from Rockler, quite a while back. I wanted to the different sized removable rings for different sized bits and didn't want to spend the time making my own.

I have a couple of pictures of my Norm hybrid router table:



http://www.truckblog.com/gallery/Mark05KR/27848.JPG



http://www.truckblog.com/gallery/Mark05KR/27850.JPG

[Hank Knight]

Michael,

I'm a fan of Bosch routers. I've never used a PC, so I can't compare the two. I've had an older Bosch 1615 EVS 3 1/4 HP router in my router table for many years and it is a workhorse. I bought it before manufacturers started designing routers to go into tables, so I have to work around the spring loaded plunge mechanism which has always been something of a pain. But I've gotten used to it and I can't say enough good about the router itself. Bosch fixed the spring issue with the 1619. If the need ever arises, I will replace my 1615 with a 1619 - or maybe a Triton which looks like it would be a dream in a router table and has gotten excelent reviews.

My $.02.

Hank

[pat warner]

"thanks, pat, for sharing your immense wealth of knowledge. its been a big help. i assume you'd go with the 5625 over the bosch 1619 (mainly for table use)?

also, i think i'll take your advice and direct mount it but how do you mount a 5625 to a table w/o a plate? are there exposed, but recessed, flathead screws/washers on the top of the table? if so, will the recessed screws dig into an MDF table over time?"
__________________________________________________ _______
1619 feature ready for table use, big motor, viable option, if you like plungers upside down.

Casting screws: On 5625 & 7518, 5/16-18, big screws (5/8" flat heads), will not pull through or spin out, will last as long as the table.
_________________________

Wonderful routers: Best plunger: DW 621 (http://patwarner.com/dw621.html), (not for table use).
OK Small routers for table use: PC 690/890, DW 618, Mlk 5615, Bosch 1617. There are features that make these & others more suitable for upsideddown use. But they all cut well when the cutter diameters & lengths are <1.6"
__________________________________________________ ____
Routers (http://www.patwarner.com)

[glenn bradley]

5625 owner. I use the Rockler plate.

[Michael Marcinelli]

pat,
since the bosch 1619 has the spring disable what's the downside to putting a plunger in a table?

also, re: direct mount, isn't the loss of bit stroke an issue by not using a plate?

michael

[glenn bradley]

don and bob (and anyone else),
why would you go for the 7518 rather than the 5625?
same question for 5625 lovers. why the 5625 over the 7518?

I liked that the handles were removable so that my dust compartment wasn't as crowded to reach into (petty, I know but when you use it all the time . . . ). Also, several very positive reviews were out at about the time I was looking to buy and Amazon was having a sale. Add it all up and I went with the Mil.

I have no experience with the PC but judging from the PC tools I have and the opinions of many respected Creekers, I don't think you could go wrong either way.

[Scot Ferraro]

also, i think i'll take your advice and direct mount it but how do you mount a 5625 to a table w/o a plate? are there exposed, but recessed, flathead screws/washers on the top of the table? if so, will the recessed screws dig into an MDF table over time?


Hi Michael,

You can direct mount the 5625 direct to a table if you prefer -- the one drawback I see to this is not having the ability to easily closing up the diameter hole to fit the bit -- small bits in a big hole is dangerous. The 5625 uses the same mounting screws as the PC 7518 and it takes big screws -- if you recess them you should be fine as long as your top is thick enough. Personally I like the phenolic or aluminum plates that are out there -- easy to level and switch out as needed and if you ever get multiple routers for the table it is also easy to change them out without having to drill multiple holes in your table. Bench dog makes a nice one in aluminum with reducing rings to match the size of the bit you are using and their phenolic plates (which I use) work well too.

I have used 7518's in the past and they work well too -- spinning the motor to raise/lower the height is not the most convenient, especially in a table -- that is why the router lifts work so well with this type of router. The supplied wrenches are stamped (harder on the hands to loosen) than the 5625. The 5625 has infinite speed control whereas the PC 7518 has a sliding switch with set speeds -- this is not that big of a deal, but sometimes I find that certain bits and certain woods work better with an in between speed.

In a router table I have mine wired to a switch so I do not need to fumble under the table to turn it off and on. I also find that mine starts soft and there is really not a big difference between the 7518's I have used and the 5625 (this is more of an issue when hand routing anyway, IMHO).

Something else you might want to consider:

5625 has 5 year warranty
7518 has 1 year warranty

Good luck -- I think that with either one you will be happy -- they both work well, are solid industrial routers built to withstand years of heavy use. Each has its quirks to work around, but once you know what they are it is not a big deal.

[Jerry Olexa]

I have the 5625 mounted in a table on a Woodpecker 1/4" plate. I'm very happy w this powerful setup...

[pat warner]

MM.
Plunger in a router table (http://patwarner.com/plunge_or_fixed.html): Not a biggee, common, but something I would not do.
Screw the bugger right to the top?
Indeed, you will lose plunge stroke, 1619 = 2-9/16".
Not a lot (of stroke) for such a big router, expect 3+" from PC 7518.

[Craig Walls]

I agree with Mark and Jeff regarding the PC7518. Mine stays in the table and it is the workhorse of the shop. Dead accurate and it never gives me any grief. It isn't as sexy as many new routers but it is still does the job it was intended for.

My 7518 is extremely sexy! It's the second LOML!!

[Grant Lasson]

I have two 3HP routers: the Bosch 1619 which I use in my router table and the PC 7518 which I use on my router lathe. There are several things I like about the Bosch. #1) Very smooth and quiet motor with great speed control. #2) My eliminator collet that makes bit changing so fast and simple--and above the table. That said, the DC is fairly mediocre and it doesn't seem as powerful as the PC 7518. In addition, there is a noticeable upgrade to the PC build quality. Lots of plastic on the 1619. On the other hand, the speed controls for the 1718 are more limited and it is one loud motor. It doesn't have the Bosch's smoothness or refinements. Finally, height adjustment on the Bosch is just "OK." While I like the Bosch, I don't think I would buy one again. Too big for hand held work and too many compromises to be a great table-based router.