Freud Diablo or Avanti?

[Clint Gauthier]

I need a fine 10" TS blade for cross cutting and ripping laminate flooring. What is a good tooth count, and is there any preference between the Diablo or Avanti line of blades?

[scott spencer]

Those two lines are pretty much made to the same standards. One's aimed more at contractors, and they tend to be sold by different vendors.

A triple chip grind will hold up best to the tough flooring, I think something in the 60T range should do...tough to find a TCG in a tooth count that will perform both ripping and crosscutting tasks well. Freud's LU82M010 from their Industrial line would likely workout well.

[Charles McCracken]

Scott is correct that the Diablo and Avanti blades are very similar. He is also correct that a Triple Chip Grind is best. However, for laminate flooring ripping and crosscutting are the same as far as the blade is concerned. In solid wood ripping the chips are much larger and so you need larger gullets and therefore fewer teeth. With manmade products the chip size stays the same regardless of orientation through the saw so more teeth is generally better.

One more note, never plunge cut into laminate flooring or attempt to cut it on a non-sliding miter saw. This will dull blades VERY quickly.

[Bob Childress]

One more note, never plunge cut into laminate flooring or attempt to cut it on a non-sliding miter saw. This will dull blades VERY quickly.

Boy, are you right! DAMHIKT. :D :(

[Richard DiCerb]

With respect to the TK906 blades , is it a negative that there are no laser slots
on the blade? I always had good luck with the Hitachi blades and was considering giving these freud Avanti blades a try.

[Charles McCracken]

With respect to the TK906 blades , is it a negative that there are no laser slots
on the blade? I always had good luck with the Hitachi blades and was considering giving these freud Avanti blades a try.

Richard,

There are two types of slots used by Freud: Expansion slots and Anti-Vibration slots. Expansion slots are cut from the rim of the blade inward and typically have a question mark shape. They are necessary to keep the blade flat in operation. Anti-Vibration slots are cut into the body to dampen vibration. The TK906 design features a deep gullet every fifth tooth which not only allows for more efficient ripping, they also perform the same function as expansion slots so additional slots are not required. The Anti-Vibration slots are only available on certain Freud models, primarily in our Industrial and Diablo lines.

[James White]

Hi Charles,

I found the below posted on another forum. Can you tell us if it is true.

NEWS FLASH: As a past employee of a saw blade company I can tell you and others here that ALL of Freud's "Made in Italy" are in fact made in China, they sharpen them and paint them red....or silver in Italy but they are manufactured in China. And now wholly owned by Bosch.

James

[scott spencer]

Hi Charles,

I found the below posted on another forum. Can you tell us if it is true.

NEWS FLASH: As a past employee of a saw blade company I can tell you and others here that ALL of Freud's "Made in Italy" are in fact made in China, they sharpen them and paint them red....or silver in Italy but they are manufactured in China. And now wholly owned by Bosch.

James

Hi James - I'm not Charles and I'm not associated with Freud, but I suspect there's some confusion. It's true that Bosch bought the Freud cutter business some time ago. I don't believe it's true that the Freud blades are now made in China, but as of June 2009, Freud discontinued their Freud TK Avanti line due to a lot of overlap between their existing lines. Recently HD started selling a line of blades marked "Avanti" and "Avanti Pro" that aren't made by Freud, don't resemble the Freud Avanti blades, aren't labeled Freud, are made in China, and AFAIK have no association with Freud whatsoever but could definitely lead to some confusion....something I suspect whoever is marketing these blades was banking on. The blades in question look remarkably similar to the Oldham contractor series and the DeWalt construction series, neither of which are suitable for fine woodworking IMHO. Oldham and DeWalt are both owned by B&D.

Buyer beware and know what you're getting. As I like to say, "buy the blade not the brand".

[glenn bradley]

NEWS FLASH: As a past employee of a saw blade company . . . .

I feel sorry for these folks who so want to be thought of as having the "inside scoop" that they spread this king of misinformation. I hope this isn't like the member who always posted false info about anything other than Grex guns. He would follow his poor reviews of whoever he was slandering with remarks about how great his Grex tools are blah, blah, blah. The guy turned out to be a Grex retailer.

Grex does make nice stuff. I don't know why the guy felt he had to do what he did. Maybe its the same with the blade guy(?).

[Randal Stevenson]

Hi James - I'm not Charles and I'm not associated with Freud, but I suspect there's some confusion. It's true that Bosch bought the Freud cutter business some time ago. I don't believe it's true that the Freud blades are now made in China, but as of June 2009, Freud discontinued their Freud TK Avanti line due to a lot of overlap between their existing lines. Recently HD started selling a line of blades marked "Avanti" and "Avanti Pro" that aren't made by Freud, don't resemble the Freud Avanti blades, aren't labeled Freud, are made in China, and AFAIK have no association with Freud whatsoever but could definitely lead to some confusion....something I suspect whoever is marketing these blades was banking on. The blades in question look remarkably similar to the Oldham contractor series and the DeWalt construction series, neither of which are suitable for fine woodworking IMHO. Oldham and DeWalt are both owned by B&D.

Buyer beware and know what you're getting. As I like to say, "buy the blade not the brand".

I am hoping Charles will pop in and post, as several posters on this and other forums are wondering if Freud/Bosch sold the Avanti name. If not, are they going after Home Depot for trademark infringement, due to the confusion? (my father just bought a Avanti on closeout by Lowe's which adds to this confusion as he asked about the Home Depot ones).

Thanks

[glenn bradley]

I am hoping Charles will pop in and post, as several posters on this and other forums are wondering if Freud/Bosch sold the Avanti name. If not, are they going after Home Depot for trademark infringement, due to the confusion? (my father just bought a Avanti on closeout by Lowe's which adds to this confusion as he asked about the Home Depot ones).

Thanks

Charles answered this pretty well on another forum:

"Glenn,

I am happy to hear that the LU87 is working well for you. The Freud Diablo line of blades is essentially unchanged except for some new offerings. Here's the official word on Freud Avanti:

In an effort to continue to deliver excellence in the cutting tool market, Freud consistently evaluates its product offering and brand strategy.

Freud has expanded its Freud Industrial Thin Kerf line to the point that it would be a replication for Freud to continue its Avanti line of saw blades. Therefore, Freud has decided to discontinue the Freud Avanti saw blades to streamline our saw blade strategy. We will be transitioning all Avanti saw blades over to Freud Industrial Thin Kerf line due to the significant increase in features and performance.

Freud will no longer manufacture the Avanti brand of saw blades effective June 2009.

Freud will continue to manufacture our premium brands including Freud Industrial & Diablo (premium construction line) from its manufacturing headquarters in Udine, Italy.

Because of this decision to discontinue the Freud Avanti saw blade line, consumers may see discounted Avanti product on the market until the completion of all existing inventory."

P.s. Have your dad check his blades; if they say made in Italy right on the blade, he got a deal. If they say made in China, well, they're just Chinese blades.

[James White]

Scott/Glenn,

Thank you for posting what you now about the situation. I was at Lowes yesterday and they didn't have any Avanti blades. I wonder if we missed some clearance deals or they just sold out. Looks like Irwin will take there place.

James

[scott spencer]

Scott/Glenn,

Thank you for posting what you now about the situation. I was at Lowes yesterday and they didn't have any Avanti blades. I wonder if we missed some clearance deals or they just sold out. Looks like Irwin will take there place.

James

Yikes...not a fan of the Irwin Marathon or Spring blades, and IMO those are a poor substitute for the Freud TK/Avanti line. There used to be a very good line of Irwin "Woodworking" blades made in Germany by Leitz, but those are a rare siting these days, but are still seen as the H.O. Schumacher line. Again, buy the blade, not the brand.

I don't know if Bosch sold the Avanti name, or if someone else (B&D?) just seized the opportunity to cash on a recognized name...either way, the new "Avanti" and "Avanti Pro" are not made to the level the former Freud Avanti blades were.

[Charles McCracken]

Hi Charles,

I found the below posted on another forum. Can you tell us if it is true.

NEWS FLASH: As a past employee of a saw blade company I can tell you and others here that ALL of Freud's "Made in Italy" are in fact made in China, they sharpen them and paint them red....or silver in Italy but they are manufactured in China. And now wholly owned by Bosch.

James

James,

I don't know where you found that quote so I can't say for sure, but it sounds distinctly like the same drivel that was being spread by a disgruntled former Freud employee a short while back on Knots. This is absolutely untrue. All Freud blades are made in our factory in Italy - start to finish. We have a separate carbide foundry (also in Italy) and purchase the steel from Germany.

[James White]

Hi Charles,

Thank you for putting that strait. Not only for me but for anyone else who may have seen that on the net.

I hope that Freud continues to make an excellent product at an affordable price point. I have always been very happy with the Freud products that I have purchased. That would include the Diablo, Avanti, and Industrial lines. My next blade will be a glue line rip.

James

[Michael Schwartz]

I need a fine 10" TS blade for cross cutting and ripping laminate flooring. What is a good tooth count, and is there any preference between the Diablo or Avanti line of blades?

No experience with the Avanti (weren't carried when I lbought my diablo blades) but I have a freud diablo 12" crosscut blade in my SCMS, as well as a 24T 10" rip blade and 10" X-cut blade for my tablesaw. All are very fine blades.

I normally run a 10" 40t Tenyru Gold combo blade in my tablesaw, but once again the freud diablo line work very well.