20 x 21 Shop Layout Suggestions

[Jeff Grimes]

We recently moved (2 years ago) and I'm just getting around to arranging my basement shop. The area is 20 x 21, 3 poured walls (concrete) and the fourth will be framed partition with the finished basement, and it must include a door.

I had things layed out great in a 14x28 shop...and am finding this square shape harder to "think of flow" Where I place the machines I plan to run hard-wire electric and DC ports accordingly...

I currently have:

Delta 52" Unisaw with 4x5 Outfeed table
Jet 14" Band Saw
Jet 17" Drill press
Jet 6" Jointer
Dewalt 12" Planer
Router Table
Dewalt 12" CMS
Dewalt Scroll Saw

I still need/plan to acquire eventually:
Radial Arm Saw
Lathe
Sanding Station and/or Drum Sander
Frame in a finishing booth???

I'll probably use CAD software to actually layout the machines...but figure I'd tap the experts for suggestions. I doubt I could even get a 4x8 sheet down the stairs...so I won't need to "protect" for that...

Based on your work (and I know this will vary) How much space do feel is ideal for:

a) infeed/outfeed on table saw
b) infeed/outfeed CMS
c) infeed/outfeed RAS
d) infeed/outfeed BandSaw
e) How much wood stage (length) is minimal?

I'll probably position the planer under the saw extension table...

Any thoughts on where to "view" layout ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I want to capitalize the web, and only iof necessary buy the "Workshop" books.

Thanks in advance.

[Todd Burch]

Jeff, here's my two centavos.

First, in a basement, or even a small commercial shop, toss any ideas of "flow" out the window, it's a waste of time. Fine if you are setting up an assembly line and you have 8,000 square feet to deal with and you plan on making not less than 10 of everything you make. In a 20x21 shop, what are you, maybe, 6 steps from EVERYTHING?

Second, put everything on wheels so you can cram it out of the way when you are not using it, which is most of the time.

Third, reserve the largest spot you can for open floor space, unless all you are ever going to make will fit on your tablesaw table.

Fourth, floor space is THE commodity. Keep everything off the floor that you can. It's easier to sweep, you won't trip over it, and it will force you to have dedicated storage places for everything.

Fifth, don't get a radial arm saw. You don't have room.

Sixth, unless your desired spray booth is a cardboard box laid up on edge, good luck on finding a place for that too.

Lastly, for the operations that you dislike (ie, some people dislike finishing, some designing, etc.), set up your shop to do that with the least number of excuses to avoid it.

Todd.

(Your post caught me in a frustrated mood with my own setup. Hope I didn't sound like I was biting your head off.) ;)

[Keith Starosta]

Jeff, here's my two centavos.

First, in a basement, or even a small commercial shop, toss any ideas of "flow" out the window, it's a waste of time. Fine if you are setting up an assembly line and you have 8,000 square feet to deal with and you plan on making not less than 10 of everything you make. In a 20x21 shop, what are you, maybe, 6 steps from EVERYTHING?

Second, put everything on wheels so you can cram it out of the way when you are not using it, which is most of the time.

Third, reserve the largest spot you can for open floor space, unless all you are ever going to make will fit on your tablesaw table.

Fourth, floor space is THE commodity. Keep everything off the floor that you can. It's easier to sweep, you won't trip over it, and it will force you to have dedicated storage places for everything.

Fifth, don't get a radial arm saw. You don't have room.

Sixth, unless your desired spray booth is a cardboard box laid up on edge, good luck on finding a place for that too.

Lastly, for the operations that you dislike (ie, some people dislike finishing, some designing, etc.), set up your shop to do that with the least number of excuses to avoid it.

Todd.

(Your post caught me in a frustrated mood with my own setup. Hope I didn't sound like I was biting your head off.) ;)


As soon as I read that Jeff needed to buy a radial arm saw, I knew that you were going to have something negative about it!
:D Back when I first joined the Creek, I made mention of my radial arm saw, and you made the same comment. I'm beginning to think you are a radialist. ;)


Jeff, I have almost the exact dimension in my shop, however it's an attached two-car garage. I am just about done designing the layout of my shop (complete with my new DC. Thanks, Santa!) using the CAD-challenged woodworkers best friend.....SketchUp. I'm going to post the picture, so hopefully that will help.

Keith

[Scott Coffelt]

I have a small basement shop roughly the same size as your last. What I found was it took me several times to get things right. I always came back to the TS being in the center with the outfeed table. I made sure I had plenty of room for floor assembly. I also made sure I had 9' in front of the TS so I could go to that length of board. Everything else was mobile. I eventually located everything else around the outside. I have a bank of cabinets that works as a miter, morticer and 12" disk sander station. I have upper cabinets above it. I positioned my lumber storage on adjustable shelves over the jointer, drum sander, etc. Since these tools usually need some space away from the walls, I can have up to 12" wide storage above not in the way. Once I finally got a design I liked. I built the cyclone and ducting. The ducting and electrical for the TS, Planer and outfeed table all come down the corner of the TS. My planer (lunch box size) fits on a steel stand I built that attaches to the outfeed side of the TS about 8" above the table. I made cabinets for everything and got away from the steel stands that came with tools. Two reasons (1) the cabinet allowed me to store things (2) I could build to my height requirements. I make sure that my long lumber can be cut without hitting something else. For example: my lathe is behind me when working on the TS. The wood easily can be handled without hitting the lathe, but I do not have tons of wasted space between them.

One final thing. Take some graph paper. Make a scaled version of your shop, tools and planned cabinets. Move them around to find out spacing and work flow. Think above and below. Are there tools that can fit below or above something else and still be easily and comfortably used. Also think about what you plan to build and size of material. I don't normally do large things on the bandsaw or drill press. They are in corners or in areas that I do not have to move them much. You might think about building a bank of cainets that support a Radial, CMS and Morticer. If you have a 12" disk sander, it can be built onto a stand that over hangs the support table for the three tools above.

I have fit: Grizzly 1023S (30" fence), 3x5 Outfeed Cabinet, 12" Sears Tilt-head Bandsaw (large footprint), 15" Sears Floor Drill Press, Ridgid Lathe, Dust Eliminator Cyclone and filter stack, 6" Jet Jointer, Ryobi 16x32 Drum Sander, 12" Grizzly Sander, Jet Bench-top Spindle Sander, Router Cabinet, Dewalt 12" CMS, Reliant 12" Planer, Woodtek Morticer, 2 compressors, two shop vacs and several feet of cabinet and wood storage all into a 13x28 shop. I don't trip over things, and so it can be done.

Good luck.

[Jim Becker]

Good advise already listed, so I'll only emphasize to keep things flexible...your needs will change, sometimes with each project. Plan things so that you can easily move things around.

One other thing...make arrangements for a "tool corral" where you can wheel everything that you don't use all the time. Examples would be things like sanders, drill presses, etc. Bring 'em out only when you need to use them. Keep the major space occupied with your three core tools--the TS, J and PL. and leave plenty of floor space available for things like assembly and finishing. Make your assembly table/supports knock-down so you can put them away and also have them at variable height to accommodate different kinds of projects. Flexible is the name of the game no matter what size your shop, but especially when space is constrained.

[Jason Roehl]

I gotta second Todd's recommendation against the radial arm saw. You already have a sweet tablesaw, and a very good CMS. Your need for an RAS would be rare, and it would only take up precious space in which you could stick other tools. Heck, alot of Todd's suggestions are good (and he's in the biz, so he's got some experience). You could also build some sort of "flip" cabinet to house both the planer and the scroll saw. I'd probably also put the door as close to a corner as I could so that wall space doesn't get broken up as much. My $.02...

[Jamie Buxton]

Jeff, my advice for a small shop is to put all the big things on wheels. You get to move them around to reconfigure the shop depending on what you're doing. You also have the flexibility to add new machines in the future. And maybe, just maybe, you'll find machines just kinda find their own spots in the shop and don't move. That'd be a nice but unexpected result.

[Jim Young]

For me the best way to figure out shop layout was to use cad. I added all the walls, poles and ducts. Made a copy of the structure and then cut out the machinery. This gave me the ability to move thigs around quickly. When I came up with a plan I put the machinery in to the cad drawing so I could measure the clearances.

The only permanent items in my shop are the table saw, drill press, band saw, workbench and lathe. The lathe has it's own alcove. I put all the machinery in one area.

Once the plan was done I was able to plan out my DC system and lighting.

[Mark Singer]

We recently moved (2 years ago) and I'm just getting around to arranging my basement shop. The area is 20 x 21, 3 poured walls (concrete) and the fourth will be framed partition with the finished basement, and it must include a door.

I had things layed out great in a 14x28 shop...and am finding this square shape harder to "think of flow" Where I place the machines I plan to run hard-wire electric and DC ports accordingly...

I currently have:

Delta 52" Unisaw with 4x5 Outfeed table
Jet 14" Band Saw
Jet 17" Drill press
Jet 6" Jointer
Dewalt 12" Planer
Router Table
Dewalt 12" CMS
Dewalt Scroll Saw

I still need/plan to acquire eventually:
Radial Arm Saw
Lathe
Sanding Station and/or Drum Sander
Frame in a finishing booth???

I'll probably use CAD software to actually layout the machines...but figure I'd tap the experts for suggestions. I doubt I could even get a 4x8 sheet down the stairs...so I won't need to "protect" for that...

Based on your work (and I know this will vary) How much space do feel is ideal for:

a) infeed/outfeed on table saw
b) infeed/outfeed CMS
c) infeed/outfeed RAS
d) infeed/outfeed BandSaw
e) How much wood stage (length) is minimal?

I'll probably position the planer under the saw extension table...

Any thoughts on where to "view" layout ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I want to capitalize the web, and only iof necessary buy the "Workshop" books.

Thanks in advance.


Jeff,
I hope this helps it is similar to my layout which works well. You should not need a radial arm saw if you have CMS and unisaw. You can't aford the space I don,t think.
Mark

[Jeff Grimes]

Mark, Great Sketch...Thanks...

I appreciate all the feedback...For those recommending against a RAS, how do you cut fixed-depth dado's across long boards (i.e. cabinet sides, etc). Do you route or risk it on the table saw?

By the way, just how much more room would a RAS take/ I assumed 34" from the wall, and incorporated into the same long bench as the CMS??? Having never owned one, am I missing something on the size?

My dust collector and 60gal Compressor will be located in the garage, much quieter and frees up some space. Also, I'll be putting double-doors into the finsihed part of the basement...and shifting the table saw to within 4' of the doors.

I like the idea of the jointer next to the saw like Mark shows...but my jointer is 3" taller than my saw????? And based on experiences in my past shop WILL get in the way.

I'm going to do some cad work too...I have a couple of support posts in this area...which will drove some machine placement...

[Mark Singer]

Mark, Great Sketch...Thanks...

I appreciate all the feedback...For those recommending against a RAS, how do you cut fixed-depth dado's across long boards (i.e. cabinet sides, etc). Do you route or risk it on the table saw?

By the way, just how much more room would a RAS take/ I assumed 34" from the wall, and incorporated into the same long bench as the CMS??? Having never owned one, am I missing something on the size?

My dust collector and 60gal Compressor will be located in the garage, much quieter and frees up some space. Also, I'll be putting double-doors into the finsihed part of the basement...and shifting the table saw to within 4' of the doors.

I like the idea of the jointer next to the saw like Mark shows...but my jointer is 3" taller than my saw????? And based on experiences in my past shop WILL get in the way.

I'm going to do some cad work too...I have a couple of support posts in this area...which will drove some machine placement...



Jeff,
Make your dadoes withe router handheld and guided between to boards leave the thickness of the shelf and a couple of sheets of paper for fit on the jig width. Just clamp them down. If you do it a lot make them "T " squares.
Radials are not very accurate .. not as good as your Unisaw or dewalt CMS ...it is redundant nd you need the space. I would never have another radial arm saw!
The higher jointer should not be a problem. Just make sure you have 50" of clearance on on side to the blade so you can cut to the center of an 8' sheet. Also keep a hand circular saw around to downsize`your material.
I don't know where your doors are , but maybe you can infeed or outfeed through them. I rip lots of stuff 12' long or longer!
Mark

[Jim Becker]

I hope this helps it is similar to my layout which works well.

Mark...where is/are the door(s) located?? BTW, good example of keeping the three main tools as the core of the shop. If I didn't have that dang stairwell where it is in my shop, I'd have my J/P right where you have your jointer no question!

[Jeff Grimes]

had several hours to play around with placement...

Here is a screen dump of what I ended up with. The Sanding Station and lathe are Future tools, the rest I have.

The Area is 20' Top/Bottom, and 21' left to Right. The doors on the left open to the finished part of the basement (future bar and game room). On the righ wall is a small regular basement window, which may end up being an egress window (or door)...

Please leave comments and suggestions. Walking through the layout it seems to have plaenty of room...Every piece of equipment can support a 10' board 12" wide infeed and outfeed.

The Blue circles are steel columns

[Jim Becker]

One suggestion I have is to move your sharpening station closer to the lathe...you'll be sharpening turning tools very frequently and having your grinder only steps away makes for efficiency. Other tools you take to that station sporatically or on a "scheduled" basis for the most part.

I think I'd also see if the jointer can go where the router table currently is and the band saw where you are showing the sanding station or on the opposite side of the column it's current at to make the assembly/finishing area larger. Keep the sanding station, scroll saw and router table mobile and only bring them out when you need to use them. Or maybe build the router table into your CMS bench for even more space economy.

Where do you intend to put the dust collection system and compressor?

These are just some ideas that may or may not work for you.

[Mark Singer]

had several hours to play around with placement...

Here is a screen dump of what I ended up with. The Sanding Station and lathe are Future tools, the rest I have.

The Area is 20' Top/Bottom, and 21' left to Right. The doors on the left open to the finished part of the basement (future bar and game room). On the righ wall is a small regular basement window, which may end up being an egress window (or door)...

Please leave comments and suggestions. Walking through the layout it seems to have plaenty of room...Every piece of equipment can support a 10' board 12" wide infeed and outfeed.

The Blue circles are steel columns

Jeff,
A couple of concerns and coments. The bandsaw is better against a wall. I have 2 1 for resaw (Agazanni 20" Lenox !" vadible pitch) and 1 for scrolling (jet 14" 3/16" blade). Since you are feeding parrallel to the wall thru the saw it is natural and that will free the space around the jointer. The Jointer must be higher than the workbench and that does not seem likely. The workbench heigth should be about 35". This way you won't be leaning over and tiring your back. It also brimgs work closer to your eye level....better quality work. Make sure you can cut to the center of a 4x8 sheet (50" with clearance) at the tablesaw. The router table could stay ther ...I perfer it aginst a wall, leaving extra hose for times when you want to run long boards thru... Some of the tablesaws place the router in the lateral support table ....then you have to move all your stuff to rout something.
Mark

[CPeter James]

I agree on the RAS. I have one and have not cut a board with it in over 2 years. After Sears recalled all 3,000,000 that they made, I decided to stop using mine and bought a 12" Dewalt slider. One of my better moves. I have had the RAS for over 30 years and it has given me good service. I did not have a table saw until about 6 years ago and built furniture and a house and barn with only the RAS so I do have some experience with one.

Wheels are the answer. Even my 12" table saw with sliding table on one side and 60"(I moved the 52" fence rails when I put the sliding table on) fence on the other. I fabricated the base and wheels. When I need a large chunk of floor space, I can move it, or I can cant it to allow ripping a 12' or 16' board.

My shop floor is 19' x 23' and I have too much stuff in it. I am a slef admitted pack rat. I use a large temporary workbench when I need it and a small bench that is set up against one wall. Other things move around to fit the space needs at the time.

CPeter

[Jeff Grimes]

One suggestion I have is to move your sharpening station closer to the lathe...you'll be sharpening turning tools very frequently and having your grinder only steps away makes for efficiency. Other tools you take to that station sporatically or on a "scheduled" basis for the most part.

I think I'd also see if the jointer can go where the router table currently is and the band saw where you are showing the sanding station or on the opposite side of the column it's current at to make the assembly/finishing area larger. Keep the sanding station, scroll saw and router table mobile and only bring them out when you need to use them. Or maybe build the router table into your CMS bench for even more space economy.

Where do you intend to put the dust collection system and compressor?

These are just some ideas that may or may not work for you.

I've never turned wood before, so this is great. Are we talking several times during the turning of a table leg?? I would have never guessed that!

This recommendation is easy to accomplish, I'll move the lathe next to the sharpening station, placing the sanding station in the corner (which can also double a s a tool coral.).

The view doesn't demonstrate the spacing well...every machine seems to have excellent in-feed and out-feed space...except the router...which I am struggling with. I have an intellifence (which I'm not happy with, and will post a question on shortly)

Their is a pole between the jointer and the bandsaw...Excellent for electrical and DC drops. Infeed/outfeed for the Jointer is over 9'...While it appears to interfere, the bench would likely shift toward the top of the image, and be a little smaller (see new post). Infeed/outfeed for the band-saw is also approaching 9'. Moving either along the wall won't accomplish anything, unless I'm missing the intent?

The drill press and scroll saw are small enough to allow the edge of my table saw to be 4' from the door. If I ever have to cut a board longer than 4 3/4' I can open the door. Same with the planer which is UNDERNEATH the saw's outfeed table.

Many of you are recommending the jointer go next to the table saw extension table. In my case, the current location increases its capacity...as the doors to the shop will be strategically located to allow a 4x8 sheet of plywood to get ripped to 2'x8'. But I'm curious, with the jointer taller than the saw's extension table, don't you ever have issues with it interfering? Especially if you don't have a radial arm saw.

I apologise for the some of the ignorance...I'm really just getting started, and "expect to" build larger pieces at some point. And while flexibility is great, I do prefer that each tool have its place..so that appropriate electrical and DC needs can be met.

If the router table moves...that location may become my roll-away tool usae spot. With a generic DC drop (ceiling, and 110/220 electrical available).

I like Terry Hatfields downdraft box...and may incorporate one into the long bench, somewhere to the right of the CMS. Other "infrastructure ideas would be great...

Thanks everyone...

[Bill Roland]

Jeff,
Send me your e-mail address and I will send you a program called Shopdsn that will help you lay out your shop. It comes complete with Icons for your tools that allows you to place your tools for best flow. I will bo off from after today until Monday so it maybe Monday before I can send.

Bill Roland

[Don Abele]

Bill, is that a commerically available program? shareware? I did a search for it and didn't come up with anything. I move a lot (in the Navy) and each new move brings the challenge of laying the shop out in whatever location I get at the new place. I usually use graph paper and little cut outs for each tool. A computerized version would be nice.

Thanks, be well,

Doc