Grizzly gripe

[Craig D Peltier]

Well this monday I ordered a 8" jointer from them from 80 miles away.They want me to wait 3-5 business days for it. Okay, so i check status online of there freight compoany, yesterday it says "in transit", then it says "at terminal" later at night. Ok, look this morning it says "in transit" , so I think its coming here.Nope I call freight co. they say no, not till next thursday you missed cut off time yesterday and we only deliver once a week to your town.
So I call Grizzly and they tell me, sorry we cant do anything about it until the 5 days are up and it didnt ship till wednesday.I said well I placed order Monday and it was in stock you figured it would go out Tuesday. "no" .So I say well next thrusday will be 8 days from day after ordering and 6 days after you guys actually shipped it.
She says " well we cant trace it until the 5th day" I said what goods that going to do me, dont you have the frieght companies policies for delivering to certain areas? She couldnt answer but it was obviously no. Not very good customer service for me on this machine.I call on 5th they trace and say it will be there next day right.
I hated to be pushy but I really need machine Monday to joint some 8/4 white oak. Plus this is the second time Oak Harbor Freight has doen this to me.

PS Grizzly did say I could go pick it up at freight terminal but it will be the same cost of freight.She told me this several times.I think thats kind of honory of them.

Sorry just needed to vent.I know its tought when you order things but you would suspect 5 days ffrom 80 miles away would be more than enough and Grizz would know more than they do.

[Paul Johnstone]

That's part of the price you pay when you mail order tools though (uncertainty of when it arrives). It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

If it's really critical to get a tool fast, it's best to use a local dealer.

No offense intended, but when I mail order something, I just assume it will take 2-3 weeks.

[Doug Shepard]

I'm guessing this is for liftgate service? That wouldn't be real uncommon for any of the carriers. Most of them have a limited number of liftgate trucks and only do certain areas on certain days of the week. If it's not liftgate though and you were prepared to offload with a forklift or have access to a dock well, I'd keep complaining. There shouldn't be any excuse for that long a wait for an 80 mile trip for a normal freight delivery.

[Joe Chritz]

I placed an order for the same unit on 03/18/07 late at night and I picked it up at the freight terminal this morning. I am a lot further than 80 miles.

I would assume it is a lift gate truck and it should still be at the terminal and available. If it is then the gripe is with the freight company. While a 600 pound machine is big to me it is very small potato to a shipper.

If a payment was arranged for lift gate service and they want the same to pick it up then that is pretty weak. My shipping was the same curbside or pickup but no lift gate. Since I couldn't off load a 350# 7 foot long box with my tractor bucket I went to pick it up.

I was a little disturbed my Byrd head is backordered and I didn't hear about it until I called to check.

Joe

[Matt Day]

It sounds like it has a lot to do with your location and lack of truck routes. I picked up my jointer at the shipping terminal 2 days after I ordered it from a SF dealer that was a few states away.

[Ryan Myers]

Sorry to hear that you had trouble. I had a better experience with Grizzly.

In Janurary, I ordered the 1023SL tablesaw on Wednesday morning. To my surprise, it was delivered in my garage by noon on Friday of same week. I live approximately 275 miles from their Springfield warehouse. I didn't pay extra for lift gate service as I figured I would scoot the saw into back of my truck and then deal it with it from there. The truck showed up with a liftgate and rolled it on the pallet jack right into my garage.

[Shiraz Balolia]

Well this monday I ordered a 8" jointer from them from 80 miles away.They want me to wait 3-5 business days for it. Okay, so i check status online of there freight compoany, yesterday it says "in transit", then it says "at terminal" later at night. Ok, look this morning it says "in transit" , so I think its coming here.Nope I call freight co. they say no, not till next thursday you missed cut off time yesterday and we only deliver once a week to your town.
So I call Grizzly and they tell me, sorry we cant do anything about it until the 5 days are up and it didnt ship till wednesday.I said well I placed order Monday and it was in stock you figured it would go out Tuesday. "no" .So I say well next thrusday will be 8 days from day after ordering and 6 days after you guys actually shipped it.
She says " well we cant trace it until the 5th day" I said what goods that going to do me, dont you have the frieght companies policies for delivering to certain areas? She couldnt answer but it was obviously no. Not very good customer service for me on this machine.I call on 5th they trace and say it will be there next day right.
I hated to be pushy but I really need machine Monday to joint some 8/4 white oak. Plus this is the second time Oak Harbor Freight has doen this to me.

PS Grizzly did say I could go pick it up at freight terminal but it will be the same cost of freight.She told me this several times.I think thats kind of honory of them.

Sorry just needed to vent.I know its tought when you order things but you would suspect 5 days ffrom 80 miles away would be more than enough and Grizz would know more than they do.
Craig - sorry to hear about the delivery issues.
Clarification:
1) You placed your order at 3:28 pm on the 20th (Tuesday).
2) Our records show that it was scanned out of our system around 10:00 am the next morning, and picked up by the trucking company that day (Wednesday).
3) You live in Duvall, which is out of their normal service area and mostly residential. Oak Harbor Freight only delivers to those type of areas two days a week.
I am sorry that you are frustrated, but hope that you understand logistical issues sometimes prevent timely deliveries, not due to Grizzly's mishandling. We got that order out within 24 hours. Now if you lived in Metro Seattle, you would have had that machine the next day because Oak Harbor Freight has a major terminal there.
Thanks.

[Charles Green]

Not trying to sound heartless but I don't see this as being anyones fault. I understand that desire to get a tool quickly but I don't see anything wrong or negligent in their actions thus far.

Grit your teeth and wait it out. You'll forget all about the wait as soon as you get it anyway.

[Ted Miller]

Since I run a warehouse for my 40 hour job and do shipping all over the US, its always a good idea to find out who the seller uses for shipping. Lots of freight companies work within two or three other freight companies to get freight where it needs to go across country. I often make phone calls to find out what size trucks they use and time they usually deliver to my address. If I know a freight company is the worst for deliveries on time or damaged goods then I will set up the pick up via another freight company. Dealing with claims on damged freight is a real PITA...

[Bill Eshelman]

Kind of off topic, but since you started talking about Grizzly, it reminded me of how fun it is to drive up to Muncy and buy stuff. I think I am going to drive 2 hours tommorow to buy a 25 dollar router bit. Sometimes I drive another hour from there to Wilkes Barre just to get a slice of killer pizza. There is also a little store in Muncy called Orlies that carries some sweet micro brews. Now I promise not to drink them while routing. Going to Grizzly makes for an AWESOME saturday roadtrip.

Sorry about having to wait for your gear though. I feel for you. I actually measured my car (Honda Element) to the quarter inch to see if I could fit my 0490 Jointer in if I unskidded the boxes. It fit, but I had literally 1/4 inch to spare. I drove up there on a friday after work and drove home smiling ear to ear.

Alright, I'll stop gloating.

[Richard Niemiec]

Delivery logistics are always an issue, and while I know how it is when you pull the trigger on a big purchase it can be frustrating to wait for the package to arrive. I can't really fault Grizzly here, they were pretty prompt on their end and its just the delivery route schedule that's the issue. I, for one, have made the drive to Muncey from Central NJ several times, about 175 miles each way, and on two occasions came back with a table saw in the back of a Nissan 300ZX on the first trip, then a 6" joiner in my pickup on the second. And the staff helped me unpack the table saw so I could fit the pieces in the hatchback of the 300ZX. I'm sure you will be happy when it arrives.

rn

[Mark Carlson]

If I placed an order for a large piece of equipment and received it sometime the next week I'd be very happy. If I payed extra for priority shipping because I needed it within a week, I'd think different. I cant fault Grizzly or the freight company in this case.

~mark

[Craig D Peltier]

1)I had to call my wife cause I was sure it was monday but she looked up the number for me and you are right it was tuesday.My internet was down at home.MY apologies there.
2) As a company that ships all the time you figure Grizzly might say , well your residential an they only deliver twice a week or whatever it is and say the cutoff time will be yada yada yada, so it may be close or it probaly wont make it for cut off etc.
3) I still find it very weak that if I were to pick it up 55 miles closer than where it was that I have to pay full delivery.They dont have to go out of there way, theres no extra $25 liftgate service etc. etc.
4) To all others yes its a liftgate delivery. I have a trailer but was afraid how was I going to get it off of it.I mean I could roll it on pipe but then the 1 foot drop was an issue with no ramps and the not knowing if the capability of the trailer to hold that on its end.
5) Im not bagging on quality if Grizzly as a whole.Im just letting others know of how things can happen.
6) Oak Harbor delivered me a crate around jan. They called me and said we will be there tommorrow.I waited around all day an they never showed.I called and they said sorry we couldnt make it. I said you didnt call me, the dispatcher said I dont know what the night dispatch does.Pretty bad service.I know there used to delivering to business that may be open 5 days a week, maybe they should stick to them then.IMO.

Craig - sorry to hear about the delivery issues.
Clarification:
1) You placed your order at 3:28 pm on the 20th (Tuesday).
2) Our records show that it was scanned out of our system around 10:00 am the next morning, and picked up by the trucking company that day (Wednesday).
3) You live in Duvall, which is out of their normal service area and mostly residential. Oak Harbor Freight only delivers to those type of areas two days a week.
I am sorry that you are frustrated, but hope that you understand logistical issues sometimes prevent timely deliveries, not due to Grizzly's mishandling. We got that order out within 24 hours. Now if you lived in Metro Seattle, you would have had that machine the next day because Oak Harbor Freight has a major terminal there.
Thanks.

[scott spencer]

Hard to knock Grizzly for getting a machine shipped within 24 hours. I would have driven the 80 miles to pick it up if I needed it within a short lead time...that would put all the variables within my control.

[Joe Mioux]

Hey, do you know what is pretty cool about this thread?

You got a detailed, professional and polite answer from the boss.

[Greg Cuetara]

I think i must agree with Scott. Why didn't you just go pick it up. Probably cheaper on the shipping also. I wish there was a grizzly store closer up here to maine. I would definately make a 2 hour trip to go there on a saturday...sounds like you have a good time Bill. Wish I could join you for a trip tomorrow. What would be better than getting some good brew and picking up a new gloat. And yes work with the new gloat the next day...lol..

[Joe Chritz]

Craig,

If you have access to a cherry picker engine hoist, unloading and setting up that jointer is a one person job. I didn't take picks but just got done and it was a breeze.

Report to soon follow, I am out to make some chips.

Joe

[Craig D Peltier]

Mainiacs always up for a short ride.How far is it, "Oh not far" Two hours later.:) Im from Mass and have spent alot of time up there.
I couldnt get it off my trailer.New to area dont have 4 guys to help with lift.
Was talking to UPS guy yesterday he was dropping off 110 magnetic switch for the jointer.He says on his days off he used to drive 2 hours to go to bellinghams showroom, he also couldnt undertsand why the showroom wasnt open on saturdays.I think he said it was the only one .

I think i must agree with Scott. Why didn't you just go pick it up. Probably cheaper on the shipping also. I wish there was a grizzly store closer up here to maine. I would definately make a 2 hour trip to go there on a saturday...sounds like you have a good time Bill. Wish I could join you for a trip tomorrow. What would be better than getting some good brew and picking up a new gloat. And yes work with the new gloat the next day...lol..

[Greg Cuetara]

Craig I can certinally understand the need for help. I got a few friends just to help with my ole contractors saw moving it into my basement. I think I will have to pick up a cherry picker to Move my tools in the future. Hope you are having good luck with the jointer now. How do you like it? I was thinking of taking a 'short ride' down to muncy one of these weekends to take a look at their stuff and pick up a new jointer.

[Craig D Peltier]

I guess it will be here thursday.Im sure I will like it.First job is 2x8s white oak on it.
440lbs is a bit heavy thats the first box for me and the lady and puppy!
Craig I can certinally understand the need for help. I got a few friends just to help with my ole contractors saw moving it into my basement. I think I will have to pick up a cherry picker to Move my tools in the future. Hope you are having good luck with the jointer now. How do you like it? I was thinking of taking a 'short ride' down to muncy one of these weekends to take a look at their stuff and pick up a new jointer.

[Craig D Peltier]

Does it have a 210 plug on it or do I have to buy one.I read something that said "no plug" but it does have 6 foot cord.If I do have to buy one are they all the same 220 plugs? I mean I can match the female side here with the plug I buy.Have u tried to set it up yet?

I placed an order for the same unit on 03/18/07 late at night and I picked it up at the freight terminal this morning. I am a lot further than 80 miles.

I would assume it is a lift gate truck and it should still be at the terminal and available. If it is then the gripe is with the freight company. While a 600 pound machine is big to me it is very small potato to a shipper.

If a payment was arranged for lift gate service and they want the same to pick it up then that is pretty weak. My shipping was the same curbside or pickup but no lift gate. Since I couldn't off load a 350# 7 foot long box with my tractor bucket I went to pick it up.

I was a little disturbed my Byrd head is backordered and I didn't hear about it until I called to check.

Joe

[Jay Brewer]

Hi Craig, I dont see any fault on Grizzlys part, they have some of the lowest shipping I have seen, and had it out in 24 hours, dont think you can ask for any more. Try ordering a Euro machine thats not in stock, you will forget you bought it by the time you get it :o

[Craig D Peltier]

:eek: yes it made me wonder if they have an special interest here.
Hey, do you know what is pretty cool about this thread?

You got a detailed, professional and polite answer from the boss.

[Russ Cass]

Hey, do you know what is pretty cool about this thread?

You got a detailed, professional and polite answer from the boss.Absolutely :cool:

Name any other company that would do this.

[M Toupin]

Craig,
Yes, you need to supply the plug. I don't know if a 220v machine that does come with one, just too many variations out there not to mention a large percentage of 220v machines are hard wired.

On the freight issue; you're dealing with commercial freight, not UPS... That coupled with your remote AND residential location will slow things down a bit. With all do respect, 8 days is resonable IMO. From what I see Grizzly shipped it in less than 24hrs and it arrived at the terminal within 48hrs of that, not bad in my book. Your gripe is with the shipping Co. To be fair though, they are "commercial" and deliver mostly to businesses with loading docks and material handling equipment like forklifts and such. A little 600lb jointer on a 60,000lb truck is small potatoes. To expect them to run a tractor trailer every day through remote residential neighborhoods for every little piece of freight is not very realistic.

Mike

[Michael McCoy]

:eek: yes it made me wonder if they have an special interest here.

I would imagine it's taking care of business.

[Ted Miller]

Craig, You have every right to be a bit bummed, vendor could have given you some more insight on the delivery. It would not be difficult for the order dest to have a route chart in front of them to tell you who, how and what schedule to expect for delivery. On another note as I mentioned before being in this business, if dispatch tells you it will be there today, it will not. The only time and I mean only time I trust dispatch is when I phone dispatch and then they call the driver over the two way while I listen in. Then I believe the driver will be on time before I close...

[Chris Barton]

Hi Craig,

I completely understand wanting to have the tool to use and being excited and anxious to recieve it. To Grizzly's credit, you got a personal reply from the president of the company who takes the time and effort to monitor this forum. I have been accused of being a Grizzly groupie even though I only have one Grizzly machine in my shop but, I've bought many supplies from them and they have always been excellent for customer service with never a question about my request. As others have suggested, shipping companies can be a little of a challenge for some of us who are used to rapid gratification. Liftgate service is a little unique. I think you will be happy with the ultimate outcome.

[Jim Becker]

Most machines set up for 240v do not arrive with a plug...there are a number of types/versions and you'll want a plug that matches your outlet.

[Dave Lehnert]

Working in retail myself I deal with trucking all the time. Buying something from Grizzly or any other vendor of the like is not like buying something from Lowe’s (retail) and having THEM deliver it. You are in a sense buying a tool from Grizzly (more like wholesale dealing) then hiring a trucking company to hull it to your house. Grizzly is not delivering it; they just happen to have a system set up for the whole process to be much easier. Would you have ordered that tool if you had to take care of shipping yourself? Most likely not and Grizzly knows that. I know the shipping cost may seem high but if you were to call a trucking company yourself to have it picked up at Grizzly then delivered to your location it would cost 3or 4 time what you are paying.
I do a few hundred thousand dollars worth of business a year with one of my vendors at work and am still waiting over a week for a shipment that is just a state away. I feel your pain but you are not experiencing anything out of the ordinary for this type of business dealing.

[Joe Mioux]

:eek: yes it made me wonder if they have an special interest here.

That isn't how SMC works.

To me, your comment insults the integrity of Keith, Jackie, Aaron and all the mods.

Joe

[Craig D Peltier]

Well I think you take it a little to personal then.
That isn't how SMC works.

To me, your comment insults the integrity of Keith, Jackie, Aaron and all the mods.

Joe

[Craig D Peltier]

No I know, I was just kidding, its cool that they responded and was kind about it.I was suprised there was an indirect response here..
I would imagine it's taking care of business.

[Craig D Peltier]

Thanks Jim thats helpful.I can pick one up tommorrow then.
Most machines set up for 240v do not arrive with a plug...there are a number of types/versions and you'll want a plug that matches your outlet.

[Craig D Peltier]

Yes that was very nice.I understand its not there fault but the response of "call us in 5 days wasnt the right answer" when I knew it was going to take 6 days.Im over it and so is my client.They will wait.Thanks for everyone responding. At the time I was venting but trying not to prosecute,I had just hung up with them.I look forward to making it up to there store in near future and picking up a bandsaw.I was in the shipping business for 11 years.Renting party furniture.I understand about logisitics, but on the other hand we had all the answers for the client about there delivery schedule and what could affect them.
Im glad I was able to afford the 8 inch after reading all the great advice in this forum. I hope this machine will be around for a long time.

Hi Craig,

I completely understand wanting to have the tool to use and being excited and anxious to recieve it. To Grizzly's credit, you got a personal reply from the president of the company who takes the time and effort to monitor this forum. I have been accused of being a Grizzly groupie even though I only have one Grizzly machine in my shop but, I've bought many supplies from them and they have always been excellent for customer service with never a question about my request. As others have suggested, shipping companies can be a little of a challenge for some of us who are used to rapid gratification. Liftgate service is a little unique. I think you will be happy with the ultimate outcome.

[Keith Outten]

This is probably a good thread to make a very important point concerning influence in our Forums.

Because we are Member Supported we have no sponsors and therefore are not obligated to edit any posts that contain remarks that are critical of any manufacturer or product. If for instance Grizzly was a paid sponsor of SMC I would have deleted this thread the minute I was aware it existed. Not just this thread would have been deleted, there would be several each and every day.

The fact is we don't edit or delete threads or posts that are critical of a manufacturer or particular product unless claims are made that are not supported with facts. Opinions are fine but blatant statements like "XYZ company makes junk" won't be visible for long here. Statements made must be backed up with factual data to support critical comments. The situation is much like a responsible Newspaper operates in that you have the right to speak freely but you have a legal responsibility to speak the truth or you will suffer the consequences.

SMC is required to remove any thread, post or comment that contains statements that are not true. Although the content in our Forums is the legal responsibility of each poster we have an obligation to remove illegal statements. Our responsibility and legal obligations should not be considered blatant support of any manufacturer.

We are fortunate when the managers of major companies are willing to respond to questions concerning their products here at SMC. Many of our Members have received support that they may never have enjoyed otherwise.

.

[Richard Niemiec]

Shiraz keeps tabs on the temperature of his customers, just like any good businessman, and he is to be applauded for it. If, for instance, this issue were to have been demonstrably Grizzly's faus pax, he would be all over the problem like white on rice. Besides, it takes guts to join a group as the CEO of the company in your own name and he has in the past stepped up to issues and questions personally. I for one am glad to have him as a member. My 2 cents.

rn

[Paul Douglass]

Delivery logistics are always an issue, and while I know how it is when you pull the trigger on a big purchase it can be frustrating to wait for the package to arrive. I can't really fault Grizzly here, they were pretty prompt on their end and its just the delivery route schedule that's the issue. I, for one, have made the drive to Muncey from Central NJ several times, about 175 miles each way, and on two occasions came back with a table saw in the back of a Nissan 300ZX on the first trip, then a 6" joiner in my pickup on the second. And the staff helped me unpack the table saw so I could fit the pieces in the hatchback of the 300ZX. I'm sure you will be happy when it arrives.

rn

:) This gentleman uses a Nissin 300ZX for his pickup! I had a friend that use to pull a disc in his field with a Jaguar! My friend was nuts!:rolleyes:

[Art Mulder]

There are a lot of issues going on in this thread, so I guess it should not be surprising that I find things a bit confusing.

Still... I'm puzzled at all the people saying this isn't Grizzly's fault and in other ways defending Grizzly and telling the buyer that they have unrealistic expectations.

What I see is:
- the company promised 3-5 business days delivery.
- the item was ordered Tuesday, so three business days later is Friday. Five days later would be Tuesday. And that is if they don't count the day it is ordered.
- The buyer was flat out told by the delivery company that the item will not be delivered before next Thursday. That is seven business days.

To me, that is a problem. No, it may not be a huge problem, but it still is a problem. And I think that we all should expect the company to also treat that as a problem.

[Al Willits]

Might be wise to make a list of possible questions before anyone orders, I've learned the hard way several times to do this.

Asking total price, needed accessories, what the unit is packed on or in, assembly requirements, delivery time both best and worst case, manuals, whats needed when it is delivered like lift gate, pallet jack, etc.
Also ask the person your ordering it from if there's anything you should know or do, it would have been nice at this point for Grizzly to mention the delivery problems and possible offer alternitaves if there were any.

Maybe we have a company that assumes a bit to much, and a buyer who didn't ask all the right questions, I'd call it a learning curve and enjoy the jointer...when ever it gets there....:D

Al

[Mark Carlson]

I went back and reread the original post again. The sentence that confuses me is. "They want me to wait 3-5 business days for it." What does that mean? Grizzly promised to deliver within that time frame. Grizzly could only track the shipment after 3-5 days. Craig paid for that kinda shipping because he needed the jointer quick? Grizzly shipping is very cheap so unless your paying for that kinda quick delivery, getting the jointer within 7-10 days is pretty good for something that heavy requiring a lift gate. My opinion of course:)

~mark

[fRED mCnEILL]

So consider my problem in trying to get Grizzly products deleivered. I live in Canada nad Grizzly won't ship to Canada.

So I have to take a day and travel to the Bellingham store. But what a day it is. Like a kid in a candy store.
I'm ALMOST glad they won't ship to me.

When handed lemons, make lemonade.

Fred Mc.

[Curt Harms]

So consider my problem in trying to get Grizzly products deleivered. I live in Canada nad Grizzly won't ship to Canada.

So I have to take a day and travel to the Bellingham store. But what a day it is. Like a kid in a candy store.
I'm ALMOST glad they won't ship to me.

When handed lemons, make lemonade.

Fred Mc.

Fred has the correct perspective! I live about 3.5 hours from Muncy. I have or have had a few Grizzly machines. I figured it was worth the drive to save shipping issues, get to handle the prospective purchase and talk to the sales people. It's better than a trip to the candy store-a jointer lasts longer than a box of choklits:D

Curt

[Russ Massery]

I had the same "issue" with shipping from Grizzly. I asked for tailgate delivery the item shipped right away but it missed the local delivery day. I was going to have to wait a week (6 days) for the next delivery day for my area. I contacted the shipper and was able to pick the unit up there myself. It was real close for me so it wasn't a problem. After picking it up I contacted Grizzly and they refunded the cost of the tailgate delivery. I understand that the shipping companies can't delivery everywhere, everyday. But I do feel the Grizzly should make people better aware of the "Issue", when ordering.

[Justin Henry]

Call me maybe a bit patient I suppose - ordered some large tools from Grizz, Wilke and others. All somewhat inferred they would be here w/i XY days. Not one ever hit the stated time but did leave the door when they stated they would ship.
Transport companies have different delivery logistic issues as others stated - I know fully well I could have gone local with some and paid WAY more, driven long distances for others and cost me time, big money for petro and hassle.
So I just wait expectantly and yet to be disappointed with the cost, quality and overall experience.
In my years of living I've learned one thing - patience. Need something immediately I handle it.
Okay - maybe it's Sunday and I left church and continued to preach. Sorry - not meant to be a personal blast or such at anyone. Just that things do happen - beyond anyones control at times. IMO I find it hard to blame or fault anybody.

[Tim Wagner]

I have a trailer but was afraid how was I going to get it off of it

me and my brother in law lifted a 600 lbs pm2k off of a pickup with just a furniture dolly, rolled it down the side of the house and down a flight of stairs. although if you have a bad back I wouldn't attempt it.

my story,

I had a broken part that I had to order monday last, I called CS thursday to get the tracking number and she stated that it just left the building. so on a warranty part they sat on it for three days. i was mad and said i would pay for another part and I wanted it by saturday, I will pay to have it shipped. ok ok will send it tommorow (fri) and send it overnight with saturday delivery, but you only have to pay for ground. wow thats great i thought, guess what, it's sunday and no part. So if it is any consolation, we are in the same boat friend.

Tim.