Change shaper pulley to use as router table?

[James Suzda]

As long as the router/shaper debate is making the rounds again, I’ll ask a question as to the feasibility of changing the pulleys on a shaper to increase the speed when using router bits with a shaper. Has anyone tried this and would it be asking for troubles?
Jim

[M Toupin]

James,
I think your opening a can of worms on that one. Each does it's particular job well, they don't do the others job very well... Shapers run at 5-10K rpm, routers at 20-30K rpm. You need to consider things like the bearings, are they rated for the higher speed? Probably not so your looking at replacing them with ones rated for the higher speed which can get expensive. Second issue is your belts and pulleys. A larger sheave may well cause clearance issues. The belt/belts would also need to be replaced to compensate for the larger sheave. If you replace the drive sheave then your belt speed is going to double, that may well cause you problems too with belt whip and things of that nature. Doubling the speed will also exacerbate any vibration issues you have now. Just things to consider.

Don't get me wrong, I'm the first one to tinker and modify a machine to improve it:), but I think you'll be a lot happier with a dedicated router table or insert for your TS wing. If you don't plan on using the router much a simple MDF top with a whole in it secured to saw horses is a cheap solution too.

Mike

[J.R. Rutter]

One way to find out ;-)

What's the upper limit on a Felder high speed spindle? 16,000 RPM? That seems like a practical speed for router bits.

If you are comfortable replacing bearings, or know a motor or machine shop with a press, go for it. Worst case, you are out the $ for a new sheave and some new bearings. You might even decide to go with high speed bearings if you seize the originals.

-JR

[Ed Kowaski]

I believe the bigger issue with this is not bearings, it's drive belts. It's hard to make a drive belt that transmits lots of power like a shaper must and a belt that runs at router speeds.

[Steve Clardy]

Most shapers all have that skinny little drive belt.
Finding pulleys and a longer skinny drive belt might be a problem.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Like the guy said. Bearings bearings bearings. They tend not to have infinitely interchangable duty ratings.

[John Ricci]

I would tend to agree with Mike that there too many pitfalls involved with making the wrong machine do the wrong job. I have a Delta 43-505C shaper that although small, I will trust to swing a 3" lock-mitre bit more consistently than either my Ryobi 600 or Freud 2200 in a LV table @12k rpm. The routers give up so much power at lower rpms due to their universal motors but that 9 amp induction motor in the Delta soldiers on at full power all day long. On the other side of the coin I wouldn't want to run the arbor in the shaper at the speeds needed to rout cleanly with smaller bits...I have plans for a long life that do not include shrapnel! Apples and oranges in the end?

J.R.

[Rick Christopherson]

You are giving too much credence to the stories that router bits need to run at such high speeds. It’s especially humorous to see people talking about spinning them up to 30,000 rpm now. People make a big deal about the high rpm’s only when they are trying to over emphasize their point about shapers versus routers. Otherwise, they are complaining about why their router bits are burning the wood. As much as they try, they can’t have it both ways.

So I’m sure your first thought about this is, then why do router manufacturers keep increasing the speed of their routers? The answer is simple: Marketing! It isn’t that the bits need to spin so fast, but because making their routers go faster is how manufacturers are able to inflate their horsepower ratings even further.

Only the smallest of router bits actually needs to spin at nearly full speed, and even then, you are still risking having the bit burn at slow feed. For 90% of the bits that you would be tempted to use in the shaper (such as nearly all profile bits), they will operate just fine at the 10,000 rpm of the shaper.

Nearly all of the strongest opponents of the shaper are those that don’t own one or have never mounted a router bit in one. They don’t have the first-hand knowledge, but are content with repeating what others say without due diligence of their own research. And that is misinformation. I could care less what someone else buys, but I do not like reading misinformation. What I don’t understand is, why should they care what you or someone else buys for your own shop, that they will go out of their way to slant the information?

[Art Mann]

I have tried running small router bits at 10,000 or 12,000 rpms using my M12V router. They simply do not cut as well as they do at higher speeds. Using a shaper is not going to magically change that fact. I would really like to have a shaper but not to turn small router bits. That is just not what they are made for regardless of whether you can chuck them up and run them in the machine.

[Ron Wessels]

I agree that smaller router bits give much better cuts at higher speeds. I've got a Jessem router table with their variable speed motor (er, gloat?) and was flush-trimming some thin stock with a 3/8" bit. The results were unimpressive, until I noticed that I left the motor speed at 10,000 RPM from a larger cut that I had made previously. Turning the speed up to 20,000 RPM cleaned up the cut significantly.

[Vijay Kumar]

As long as the router/shaper debate is making the rounds again, I’ll ask a question as to the feasibility of changing the pulleys on a shaper to increase the speed when using router bits with a shaper. Has anyone tried this and would it be asking for troubles?
Jim

Besides the issues of bearings, drive belts there is also the issue of making sure that the driven pulley is dynamically balanced at the higher rpm.

[Ken Milhinch]

Besides the issues of bearings, drive belts there is also the issue of making sure that the driven pulley is dynamically balanced at the higher rpm.

Yes, I would have thought so. Making things go faster than they were originally designed to do is inviting an accident in my humble opinion. John Ricci's comments about avoiding shrapnel are worth listening to.