PM 66 Dust Collection

[Michael Lutz]

I just recently installed a Oneida 2HP gorilla and a short run of 7" and 6" duct and 10' of 4" flexible duct to my PM 66. I am using just the 4" port on the back of the saw. Other than collecting dust that falls near the port, the sawdust seems to pile up towards the front and sides. Based on other people's experience is this common.

The question I have is how to fix the collection looking towards the future. I plan to add a shark guard with a 4" dust port in the next couple of months for above the saw collection. The two 4" ports would come close to equaling a 6" duct area. I have seen some solutions from others, such as replacing the 4" port with a 6" port, running the 4" ducting to a shroud installed around the blade, or running 6" flex duct and reducing to 4" just before the factory dust port. How well do the methods work at improving the dust collection.

Thanks,

Mike

[Dave Novak]

My biggest question is why do mid to high end tools like this need modification for quality dust collection? Every time I bring up the point that manufacturers/designers of quality woodworking tools would benefit by engineering into their machines good dust collection, it falls on deaf ears here at the creek. Think about it, you've got a table saw with 3 maybe 5 hp driving it. Couldn't a second pully on that big motor drive a fan that is engineered into the saw to pull dust to the collection port for the DC? If DC is really as important as everyone claims, and we're all willing to spend a great deal of effort and money to modify our machines to accomplish it, wouldn't it make more sense to just design it in from the drawing board? Would you pay an extra $150 to have a machine that was incredibly effective at isolating and removing dust? I'm just frustrated I guess because I never really thought of dust collection as anything more than something to save me time sweeping up the garage until I joined this forum. I honestly believe now that it's important, so I bought a good dust collector, but now I'm faced with spending the summer months modifying everything I own. I love my recently purchased Laguna 16HD bandsaw, but I doubt my DC gathers even half the dust it creates. Just bought it, now I'm soposed to start drilling holes in it? What about a CMS? I have the best one PC makes, all my efforts catch maybe half it's dust. My Delta contrator TS, why even try? Sorry to rant.

[Jules Dominguez]

My Sawstop was delivered a couple of days ago and I finally got power to it late this afternoon. The Sawstop has a shrouded blade guard/hood and the dust is sucked down into the cabinet. The owners manual calls for a minimum 350 cfm dust collector and I hooked up a Delta 1hp 600 or 650 cfm rollaround job with a four foot long 4'' hose to the cabinet dust collection port.
I only made one test rip with it on a short piece of 2x4 before quitting for the day, so take this for what it's worth. It caught most of the sawdust, but not all. I can't quantify it, but there was a little sawdust on the sawtable and I didn't see any on the floor.
The design is intended to collect all of the dust through the cabinet port.

[Dave Novak]

That's good to hear, and consistent with other feedback I've heard from sawstop owners. Sawstop seems to be one of the few companies that have thought seriously about worker safety.

[glenn bradley]

Every time I bring up the point that manufacturers/designers of quality woodworking tools would benefit by engineering into their machines good dust collection, it falls on deaf ears here at the creek.

I don't think it falls on deaf ears; I think your right. I don't know what the criteria is for the tool designers. Maybe they are targeting folks that have 5HP and up DCs to hook to the tool. I agree that we see many posts on how to modify a new tool to collect dust effectively in the home shop and I'd like that to not be required.

*** sigh ***

[Bob Michaels]

The Sawstop has a shrouded blade guard/hood and the dust is sucked down into the cabinet.
I only made one test rip with it on a short piece of 2x4 before quitting for the day, so take this for what it's worth. It caught most of the sawdust, but not all. I can't quantify it, but there was a little sawdust on the sawtable and I didn't see any on the floor.
The design is intended to collect all of the dust through the cabinet port.

Jules, the dust collection on the SS is about the only thing on the saw that isn't yet superior to most other cabinet saws. On par with other cab saws, but not yet superior. In a conversation with SS a few weeks ago it was mentioned that they are aware that their dc is not the best and they are coming out with a better shroud system for the blade to improve dc, probably later on in 2007. It will be able to be retrofitted to existing SS saws.

[Don Kugelberg]

Is it only me or do others want to know the answer to Mike's original question: "The question I have is how to fix the collection looking towards the future"? He asked about a Powermatic 66 specifically so why hijack the thread with the "ubersaw" Sawstop comments or talk about the philosophy of tool manufacture? This will be the sixth reply (including mine) which does not answer Mike's very specific question! I don't mean to offend, I'd just like the same answer that Mike is looking for. I also own a "66" and am getting ready to add dust collection - so what's the best approach?

[Charles McKinley]

I opened up the portal in mine and put in a false floor to cover the original port and reduce the amount of area that I had to suck air from. It is posted here You can search for it if I haven't posted a link by the time you check back.

[Michael Lutz]

Charles,

How well did your modifications work?

Thanks,

Mike

[Tom Jones III]

I've tried simple versions of what Charles suggested and was not pleased with the results. I have closed off the 4" port at the bottom of the cabinet b/c it is almost completely useless. I do all my collection through an overarm collector. With your setup I would leave the 4" port in the cabinet alone and make sure that your shark guard has excellent duct work going to it and count on it to do all the dust collection.

I'm hoping that Grizzly will build an aftermarket shroud for the PM66. But until then I leave the cabinet port closed off until I want to clean out the cabinet.

To add to the side discussion, I bought the PM 66 when there were no reasonably priced alternatives that offered good DC. Since then I have made up my mind never to buy another tool that does not have a good DC solution.

[Ted Calver]

Mike,
I have just about the same set up. Last weekend I opened up the port on the PM-66 to 5", added a false floor and used magnets and old mouse pads to close the gaps around the controls. I can feel the pull around the zero clearance insert with the saw off, but I'm guessing 20% of the sawdust still escapes to the top of the table. That's ok for my level of use. There's probably a diminishing return in the level of effort necessary to catch it all.

[Steven Wilson]

I had a PM66 and it was never designed for proper dust collection and running 4" flex hose to it will never improve things. I use to run an Exactor overarm blade guard in addition to the port on the back and that did a fairly good job with dust collection. Modifications that you can make include the following;

1) cut off the 4" port, weld in a 6" port, and touchup paint the cabinet. If you then use a 5hp cyclone you might be able to keep the cabinet fairly clean.

2) with the saw unplugged have a buddy exercise the saw through its range of motion while you have your head through the access door. Take some poster board and design new dust ramps. Now dismantle your saw, take off the trunions, and modify the cabinet with better dust ramps. Reassemble, realign, repaint and then try it.

3) From 2, take your top off and note the range of motion of the blade. Fabricate a blade shroud that will capture dust from the blade and direct it towards the back. You will have lots of issues but you may be able to come up with something. Then you could run a small piece of 4" duct from your shroud to the dust port in the back of the saw. Should work real well.

4) Forget about having great dust collection from the cabinet and instead rely on an overarm guard/collector. If you're still not satisfied the purchase a saw that is designed with dust collection in mind (MiniMax, Felder, Hammer, etc).

[Don Kugelberg]

Steven,

That's good news about the Exaktor. I've bought one and will be installing it when I permanently place the saw in my new shop.

Don

[Bill Pentz]

I just recently installed a Oneida 2HP gorilla and a short run of 7" and 6" duct and 10' of 4" flexible duct to my PM 66. I am using just the 4" port on the back of the saw. Other than collecting dust that falls near the port, the sawdust seems to pile up towards the front and sides. Based on other people's experience is this common.

The question I have is how to fix the collection looking towards the future. I plan to add a shark guard with a 4" dust port in the next couple of months for above the saw collection. The two 4" ports would come close to equaling a 6" duct area. I have seen some solutions from others, such as replacing the 4" port with a 6" port, running the 4" ducting to a shroud installed around the blade, or running 6" flex duct and reducing to 4" just before the factory dust port. How well do the methods work at improving the dust collection.

Thanks,

Mike

Michael,

I recently helped a friend with his new PM 66 dust collection. He ordered a Shark Guard 4" for on top and left the lower collection as was at 4". He was not happy with the lower cabinet collection, but decided it was just far too much work to fix it properly.

bill

[Jim O'Dell]

I'm not sure you want to close off the air "holes" on the cabinet. You have to have air coming into the cabinet for it to go out the dust collection hose, no matter what size hook up you have. If the only air imput you have is the zero clearance plate, you might as well have the blast gate only cracked an 1/8" because that's all the air you're going to move. What I'd like to see the TS manufacturers do is have the dust hookup on a removable door, and sell doors with different size hose hookups. Let it come with a blank one, then sell the others as an accessory if need be, or be able to order it with the size you want to use. Then I'd want some type of controlled air inlet openings so I could adjust the flow to work best. And one other thing would be high on the list...the dust port needs to be on the right side, not the left or the back. Sorry, for the soapbox, but it just bugs me how cabinet TSs are made. Jim. (who has a 6" duct on the factory dust shroud on the base of his contractor saw)

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Michael,

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=49821&highlight=dust

Here is the post with the setup I used to have. It worked well when I hooked up the dust collection. :( You know it is on the other side of the shop and it is only a few cuts type of thing.

Cutting the hole is not that big of an opperation. Lay out the inside of the hole. drill a hole to get the jig saw blade in and cut it out. I was using plastic pipe and just glued the fitting on with epoxy. A good caulk or construction should work well also. I would not weld even if putting in a metal insert and I used to build steel storage tanks. The extra air you are moving over my portabl unit should keep it clean. I used the fiberglass because I had it available. It could just as easily be made of thin plywood or even heavy cardboard.

To close up the holes in the cabinet I found an ond magnetic sign that was for on the side of a car and cut it to fit.

[Eric Wong]

My biggest question is why do mid to high end tools like this need modification for quality dust collection? Every time I bring up the point that manufacturers/designers of quality woodworking tools would benefit by engineering into their machines good dust collection, it falls on deaf ears here at the creek. Think about it, you've got a table saw with 3 maybe 5 hp driving it. Couldn't a second pully on that big motor drive a fan that is engineered into the saw to pull dust to the collection port for the DC? If DC is really as important as everyone claims, and we're all willing to spend a great deal of effort and money to modify our machines to accomplish it, wouldn't it make more sense to just design it in from the drawing board? Would you pay an extra $150 to have a machine that was incredibly effective at isolating and removing dust? I'm just frustrated I guess because I never really thought of dust collection as anything more than something to save me time sweeping up the garage until I joined this forum. I honestly believe now that it's important, so I bought a good dust collector, but now I'm faced with spending the summer months modifying everything I own. I love my recently purchased Laguna 16HD bandsaw, but I doubt my DC gathers even half the dust it creates. Just bought it, now I'm soposed to start drilling holes in it? What about a CMS? I have the best one PC makes, all my efforts catch maybe half it's dust. My Delta contrator TS, why even try? Sorry to rant.

Whole-heartedly agree!