pinewood race car...

[Art Mulder]

Here is what I've helped my 10yr old son with ( a bit;) ) off and on over the last month.
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Tonight is the weigh-in. This morning we just finished putting on the steel ball-bearing weights, and we're at around 132/133 grams. The max allowed weight in our club is 140gm, so I think we're good there.

[aside: the weights were a big pain in the neck. When we finished the car, I was surprised to discover that it was only half of the allowed maximum weight. It was not easy trying to find about 65gm of weights in my shop that were not enormous bolts or such like. 1" diameter washers only weighed about 5 gm. If I start drilling holes for them, the car would quickly be in pieces! We found these ball bearings in a magnet-discover-kit-toy that my son just got, and decided to make them a feature instead of trying to hide them.]

Next week is the race. The boys club from our church compets against the girls club. Ear protection is almost mandatory, as the volume that 75 kids can create in a church basement is truly awe inspiring.
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The design was my son's. I did the bandsaw work (the top angle) and he did the scroll-saw work (the side curves) as well as the sanding and painting. He chose the lightning bolt as well.

Even if we lose the race, I think he's already a winner. :D

[Todd Hoppe]

That looks fantastic, and brings back great memories. I bet you guys had a blast building it.



(P.S. In the future, if you volunteer to store the troop's race track in your basement for the year, you can almost guarantee a first place trophy the next year ;))

[Karin Voorhis]

That is great to work with your son in the shop adn have a side by side prject together. I wanted to take the time to comend you on this behavior!!!! Also great fun project!! Let us know how the car makes out!! Hopefully it wins first place..

[Russ Buddle]

2 words ... Powdered Graphite ... on the wheel/axle junction.

[Bob Noles]

Ah... the memories. Y'all did a wonderful job.

[Martin Shupe]

133 grams when 140 is allowed is not enough to win.

If you want to win, drill a hole in the bottom, insert some lead (fishing weights work well), and make the car slightly heavy. I used epoxy to glue the lead in the hole.

Bring a drill to the weigh-in. Weigh the car, drill some lead away, repeat several times.

When it just registers 140 grams, stop drilling.

Graphite the wheels as well, and your car will have a chance to do well.

[Art Mulder]

133 grams when 140 is allowed is not enough to win.
...

Graphite the wheels as well, and your car will have a chance to do well.

First, graphite or any powdered lubricant is forbidden in the rules used by our club. I believe their reasoning is that the powder gets on the track.

Second, Martin, thanks for the advice on weight. However, I'm trying to make sure that this project is driven by my son and not me. I've given him advice and suggestions, but I try to make sure he makes the final call. And I'm quite glad that he is not driven to win-win-win.

I've seen these books and websites with pinewood-derby advice and I must say I find them a bit silly. I see it as an excuse to have fun, and to "force" moms and dads to spend time with their kids helping them build and personalize cars. I don't really care much about the winning.

I'm very glad that they have a separate judging on artistic/design as well as the simple race. Last year my son's friend had his car shaped and painted to resemble a hot dog in a bun. Complete with mustard and relish. It was hilarious and very creative.

...art

[Brian Dormer]

Another trick to reduce friction by 25% - set the wheels so only 3 touch the ground - one of the front wheels should be only for show. And you want most of the weight to the rear (just enough in front to keep the nose down). Good Luck!

[scott spencer]

The car looks great Art. My boys and I have built about 4 and always enjoyed it. We got better with every car. We never did win one, but we got a few "best in class" plaques. :D The most fun was rummaging through the house looking for "stuff" to create the effect he wanted. We'd use Lego parts, parts of plastic packages, decals, etc.,...whatever fit the bill.

Interesting about the graphite...it was allowed in our troop and they actually had a community tube available for those who didn't have any. As long as everyone follows the important rules, it'll be fair and fun. Have a ball!

[joseph j shields]

a couple of other tips:

Chuck-up the axles in a drill and use some 600 grit sandpaper to smooth the axles

Do the same thing with the wheels... you can grab the wheels from the inside.

-jj

[Martin Shupe]

First, graphite or any powdered lubricant is forbidden in the rules used by our club. I believe their reasoning is that the powder gets on the track.

Second, Martin, thanks for the advice on weight. However, I'm trying to make sure that this project is driven by my son and not me. I've given him advice and suggestions, but I try to make sure he makes the final call. And I'm quite glad that he is not driven to win-win-win.

I've seen these books and websites with pinewood-derby advice and I must say I find them a bit silly. I see it as an excuse to have fun, and to "force" moms and dads to spend time with their kids helping them build and personalize cars. I don't really care much about the winning.

I'm very glad that they have a separate judging on artistic/design as well as the simple race. Last year my son's friend had his car shaped and painted to resemble a hot dog in a bun. Complete with mustard and relish. It was hilarious and very creative.

...art

Art, I admire and respect your opinions on this matter.

My son was a Cub Scout (now Boy Scout), and they allowed graphite. I helped him with his car, but tried not to help too much. Sometimes we won, sometimes we lost. He liked winning better, but I also tried to teach him to be a gracious loser. You can easily tell which kids actually participated in building their car, and which had a little too much help from dad.

I think you have the right attitude on this one, and I congratulate you for it.

[David Epperson]

Yeah there are a few differences in rules between "pinecar" racing and the BSA version Pinewood derby racing. I helped kids make and race the cars to BSA rules for right at 15 years. The result was that, I'm proud to say, I've seen several of my kids (my own as well as those in our dens) cars win. From here it looks like you did good. Better in fact than I did on my oldest sons' first car. Time got short and I basicly did it all. But I learned to NEVER do that again. You got that one right better and sooner than I did. Good job!.

[Bob Myers]

Wow! A lot of great advice -- My son and I found that the key variable is the weight of the car. This needs to be as close as possible to the max weight (learned after ignominious defeat the 1st year of competition). So on our second car, we put a "weight box" in the car and filled it with bird shot. the box had a removable cover, so that we easy drop some weight if we were over weight on the official scale. -- Good luck!

[Bruce Benjamin]

Yup! That's what my dad and I used back in the early '70s and I won first place in my Cub Scout pack race. "Back in my day" the cars were a lot more basic. I saw some a while back at a local hobby store and barely recognized them. Good fun though.

Bruce



2 words ... Powdered Graphite ... on the wheel/axle junction.

[Bruce Benjamin]

There sure isn't anything wrong with winning. Show me a kid who doesn't like the feeling of winning and I'll show you a kid who probably has self esteem and motivation problems. That being said, Pinewood Derby is really all about having fun. Nobody should feel bad if they lose. But it sure did feel good winning! :) I believe a child should be encouraged to do their best and try to win if they can and be a good loser if they don't.

Bruce

[Frankie Hunt]

You gotta get that weight maxed out to be a winner.

[Tim Malyszko]

I don't know if this is still the case, but the cars that always won when I was a kid was the wedge.

While I'm not yet a father, I can't wait until the time comes around that my son and I can build one together. It is still some of the most cherished moments I had with my Dad.

To this day, I feel bad for the couple of kids that basically showed up with a block of wood and 4 wheels because their Dad's were either too busy to do it with them or weren't even in their lives.

Also, the car looks great. I like the curves on the sides.

[Martin Shupe]

I don't know if this is still the case, but the cars that always won when I was a kid was the wedge.

While I'm not yet a father, I can't wait until the time comes around that my son and I can build one together. It is still some of the most cherished moments I had with my Dad.

To this day, I feel bad for the couple of kids that basically showed up with a block of wood and 4 wheels because their Dad's were either too busy to do it with them or weren't even in their lives.

Also, the car looks great. I like the curves on the sides.

My dad never helped me with my car. The first year, the wheels fell off halfway down the track, so I didn't really enjoy the experience.:o The next year, the wheels stayed on, but I was still in last place.:(

When my boy was a Cub, I invited his entire Den over to my house each year on a Saturday. I would have them draw their basic design on the car, then I would use the bandsaw to get close. Then I taught them how to use rasps and sandpaper to get to the final shape and have at it. I chucked up the nails in my drill press, and supervised while each boy polished his axles with emery paper. I showed them what to do, they had to do it.

Some dads were there to help, some moms, too. I wanted the boys to have ownership in their cars, not just have it done for them.

Some won, some didn't, I'd like to think they all had fun.

[Rick Potter]

I am with you on the boy doing most of the work. They will appreciate the car much more. Our church does the same thing, and since it is the adults that are more competitive minded, they have races for adult cars after the kids are done running. This satisfies both groups.

Next weekend there is a 'pit day' at my shop, where we help the kids with no dads, or unhandy dads cut out their self designed cars. After that they finish them themselves.. One year a car looked like a slice of pizza, complete with real pepperoni. Rocket ships, four poster beds, bananas, a Cross, whale complete with Jonah, fire engines, Hummers, and many others have passed by.

Rick Potter
Triple adult champion.

[David Epperson]

When my boy was a Cub, I invited his entire Den over to my house each year on a Saturday. I would have them draw their basic design on the car, then I would use the bandsaw to get close. Then I taught them how to use rasps and sandpaper to get to the final shape and have at it. I chucked up the nails in my drill press, and supervised while each boy polished his axles with emery paper. I showed them what to do, they had to do it.

Some dads were there to help, some moms, too. I wanted the boys to have ownership in their cars, not just have it done for them.

Some won, some didn't, I'd like to think they all had fun.
I did the same sort of thing, except we would hold a "lock in" at the den meeting clubhouse and we would spend the better part of the whole night getting the boys cars worked out. The boys got a little experience running the scroll saw, drill press and of course lots of hand tools after sketching out their designs. I would bring the whole collection of my sons previous cars so that the new boys could look at them, just to get things started. And I've built a few just for me, for testing and such...including an 18 wheeler that there were kits for.

[Stephen Clem]

Last Sunday, I took my bandsaw, drill press, and benchtop sander and a few other tools to my church for the AWANA Grand Prix workshop. I helped about 20 kids make their cars. We are holding another workshop this Sunday. It was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed making the pencil racer. I tilted the band saw table down 30º and made the hexgon shape. Then I put the table back flat, and used a miter gauge at 30º to "sharpen the pencil" by running it through at 30º on each of the 6 faces. It looked great and the little girl was impressed with my skills. haha. My son is 2 years too young to participate, but we made a couple of cars for fun when we got home. He made one all by himself, except for the actual cutting on the bandsaw. (LOML was watching ;) ). Great fun. With a new baby at home, it's good to have somehting like this to allow me and my oldest son spend some one on one time together.

[Art Mulder]

I chucked up the nails in my drill press, and supervised while each boy polished his axles with emery paper.

That's the second time someone has mentioned nails. Obviously the kits have changed, or different companies do different things. Our kits come with screws for the wheels. The threads stop about 3/8" from the top of the shaft, and they take a #0 (yellow handle) Robertson (square drive) screwdriver. I still polished them a bit with sandpaper, but chucking them in a drill would, I think, not work because of the screw threads. But they are quite easy for my son to put in by himself. (Holes are predrilled in teh blank.)

...art

[David Epperson]

That's the second time someone has mentioned nails. Obviously the kits have changed, or different companies do different things.
...art
Just the difference in BSA rules kits vs PineCar racing rules kits.
Many BSA rules races do not allow the PineCar kits.

[dan moran]

i was 8 and my dad handed me a coping saw, and i was like "what am i supposed to do with this? why cant i just use the bandsaw?".. i hated that thing more than anything, but, thats where i realized that i cut better on the draw stroke than on the push stroke..

back then i had no idea that using a coping saw hundreds of times a week would be in my future.

it is nice to every once in a while go over to pops basement and pull out the box with mine and my brothers' cars all wrapped in shop towels and remember the good ole days..

-dan