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View Full Version : I have always said don't use the internet to conduct business.



Bart Leetch
03-21-2007, 3:28 PM
Check it out.

http://www.komotv.com/news/6607157.html

Mitchell Andrus
03-21-2007, 3:49 PM
The personal info available on line rarely comes from the victim's use of the internet. Most of this info available wasn't entered 'on-line' by anyone buying something over the net. My driver's licence and social security numbers have never been stored on my computer nor entered on-line by me, yet, I'm sure a hacker can get to them anyway from many other sources.

Joe Pelonio
03-21-2007, 3:53 PM
That is scary.

Just avoiding online business is not going to make it safe as long as there are predators out there. Account numbers and other financial information come from other sources too. In our city the largest number of crimes is identity theft, and most of it comes from people stealing mail. The hardware stores are selling a lot of locking mailboxes these days.

We don't yet know how these people got their information, it may have been hacked online transactions or it could have been leaked or hacked data from financial institution databases,

Jim Becker
03-21-2007, 4:35 PM
This isn't about doing business online at all. It's about poor business practices by vendors and even the government and poor personal habits combined with "bad people" looking for new ways to exploit others for financial gain. You have the same risk doing business by the post office or in person. Have you ever used a credit card in a restaurant? Where was it while the transaction was being consumated? Did you ever mail a letter or form that contained personal information? Etc.

Rob Bodenschatz
03-21-2007, 4:46 PM
Yup, the guys are right. Old-fashioned ways of identity theft are still thriving. A buddy of mine had his wallet lifted. Cleaning up the mess that ensued took a lot of time and pain. Even hacking companies' data has been around long before the internet we know today.

The big stories we've heard lately along these lines have nothing to do with online purchasing.

Joe Pelonio
03-21-2007, 7:29 PM
They are saying now that what was reported in the link was just the
"Tip of the iceburg".

Jonathon Spafford
03-22-2007, 2:26 AM
That is really freaky! Some people have nothing better to do with their time then mess things up for other people. What will they think of next!!!!! :confused:

Joe Chritz
03-22-2007, 3:27 AM
That is really freaky! Some people have nothing better to do with their time then mess things up for other people. What will they think of next!!!!! :confused:

Understatement of the year.

There are ways to protect your identity/credit.

Personal theft is still #1 in identity theft. A credit card at a business through a crooked employee or sloppy records, stealing mail or otherwise coming into a SS#. How many people still have their SS card in their purse or wallet?

Hacking a legit business site that uses 128 bit encryption is unlikely. It is many times more likely to have someone manually steal it on the other end.

Money scams of some sort have been around forever. They evolve as do the times but they will always be here.

Joe

Raymond Eade
03-22-2007, 8:16 AM
Don't forget that there are cell phones with built in camera's today.

Jeffrey Makiel
03-22-2007, 12:46 PM
One interesting thing to note is that much of this malicous hacking is done by offenders outside the USA. Phishing, or social engineering, is another example. Some governments care little, and some are believed to actually influence and/or sponsor this behavior.

-Jeff :)

Al Wasser
03-22-2007, 2:15 PM
how many times are you asked for your SS# when it is not needed? I once had a "scene" with a dentists receptionist because I would not give it and I was paying cash. I prevailed. Don't give it just because there is a blank on the form. I prefer "NYFB" - you figure that out.

Al Willits
03-22-2007, 3:11 PM
Probably not infallible but looking for site that have the https at the beginning of their website address instead of just http will probably help.
Not sure but suppose to be more secure...I think..:)

Had good luck doing online business, only run into one computer parts business fold while I was waiting for a mobo, lost $185 on that deal.
Now I stick to major or proven sites, like newegg, Lee Valley, Woodworkers supply and such.

Al

John Shuk
03-22-2007, 6:08 PM
This isn't about doing business online at all. It's about poor business practices by vendors and even the government and poor personal habits combined with "bad people" looking for new ways to exploit others for financial gain. You have the same risk doing business by the post office or in person. Have you ever used a credit card in a restaurant? Where was it while the transaction was being consumated? Did you ever mail a letter or form that contained personal information? Etc.

Jim is right on target here. My card number was stolen at a restaraunt in Baltimore. You gotta know who you are doing beeswax with. I don't put much consumer info online since the phone is not a big inconvenience for me.

Mitchell Andrus
03-22-2007, 7:19 PM
I have an online store. Ordering by phone is LESS secure than on-line.... Here's why...

When you enter a cc# online, my site first transfers you to a secure site operated by the card processor to accept this info. I, nor anyone here can get at your cc#. It's kept out of my office - and off of my web site - entirely.

If you call in an order, I have to write it down, and then go to the secure site and enter it in order to get it into the system. It's now available (on paper) to anyone wandering around here, until I destroy it.

Entering cc#'s on line is safer than verbally on the phone.

Jerry Clark
03-22-2007, 8:55 PM
I recently bought something with my CC-- and while standing there, the employees took my card to another area to process it-- I walked over there as the employee was looking around-- and then watched him slip a silver case back into his pocket-- then he handed my card back! There was something about the entire process that STUNK. :mad: I wanted to say something, but could not prove anything. :confused: I left -- went straight to my bank and canceled my card! :cool: You have to watch everything and everybody! Also, be sure you Scan your bank statements EVERY month, or on line every week. I missed one month and wound up with $2,000 of fraudulent charges. Took six months to get my $$ back!:o

Jim Becker
03-22-2007, 10:00 PM
Reviewing your credit card statements once a month is too infrequent at this point. With software like Quicken, you can download transactions as often as daily and not only know what the activity is, but also classify them for better budget management. At the very least, one should be accessing their bank/cc web site (from your home machine, not in a hotel or library where key-loggers could be present) weekly or more often to at least check on transactions.

Mitchell Andrus
03-23-2007, 10:01 AM
NEVER use an ATM card as a credit card unless you have an upper limit stop on the account and can live with that amount of fraud/loss. Getting a charge removed from your card is a hassle. Getting money put back into your account is tougher.

Bill Simmeth
03-23-2007, 11:41 AM
The personal info available on line rarely comes from the victim's use of the Internet. Most of this info available wasn't entered 'on-line' by anyone buying something over the net.
Hold on -- let's not be so quick to discount the Internet's role in the specific case being reported in the story Bart linked to. It has everything to do with using the Internet to conduct business as Bart's post stated. The site discussed in the story was maintained by a man in RI who posted thereon the fruits of his "phishing" trips. All of the information posted there was unwittingly supplied by computer users filling in on line forms which they thought were a part of a legitimate website.

So yes, there are ways data you enter on line can be compromised. Unless you understand phishers' tactics, know how to correctly parse an URL so you can make sure you are where you think you are, know the difference between an http and https address, etc you can get yourself in trouble.

Dick Latshaw
03-23-2007, 12:22 PM
When you enter a cc# online, my site first transfers you to a secure site operated by the card processor to accept this info. I, nor anyone here can get at your cc#. It's kept out of my office - and off of my web site - entirely.

That is exactly the way I set up several sites for my former employer. We didn't want anything to do with customer credit card info.

Of course, we found that our customer service department had set up a database of customer information, including credit card numbers. The administrator account on the database was not password protected.:mad:

Mitchell Andrus
03-23-2007, 12:54 PM
I Agree. Phishing has been going on for centuries, the net is just another way to reel them in.

Dennis Peacock
03-23-2007, 1:23 PM
I've been subject to this. Had to prove that I wasn't some Russian buying LOTS of software across the net from Moscow.

When talking with my credit card security manager, he asked me if I was Russian and why was I purchasing software from Moscow.????!!!!! :confused:

I simply stated "clearly" in the phone.....Duz this sound like a Rushun to you?? :D He said, you're southern aren't you? Well DUH!!!! :rolleyes:

Case was closed and I was issued a new credit card. :D

Ken Fitzgerald
03-23-2007, 2:18 PM
Dennis....those folks from southern Russia have an accent too!:eek: :rolleyes: :D

Al Willits
03-23-2007, 3:31 PM
You can not be held accountable for charges on your CC that you did not make, Its the law.
It requires a form to be filled out for the band, and a report (theft) to the police, probably a form for that too.
If your bank and police dept have it together, you can take care of this in the same day.
Also using a check is much more risky, as your account number is on it, people can and have appiled for credit using that, much harder to deal with and in some cases you can be held liable.

According to the personal banker at the credit Union, I bank at.

Which happens to be Beasty, not that that makes any difference....:)

Al

Bart Leetch
03-23-2007, 3:44 PM
Reviewing your credit card statements once a month is too infrequent at this point. With software like Quicken, you can download transactions as often as daily and not only know what the activity is, but also classify them for better budget management. At the very least, one should be accessing their bank/cc web site (from your home machine, not in a hotel or library where key-loggers could be present) weekly or more often to at least check on transactions.

That just the thing that bothers me. I won't put anything on my computer that can be traced to any kind of an account or business. There are no credit card or any bank account numbers on my computer. I do use Quicken to keep track of accounts but all accounts have fictitious names & no account numbers & I don't connect to the internet for banking either. The computer could be stolen & they would get nothing not counting a hacker.

Jim Becker
03-23-2007, 4:16 PM
It's a matter of choosing where your risk is, Bart. Even a strictly cash/barter existence carries risk. (cash in the mattress is subject to theft or destruction...barter is subject to the other party reneging after already taking "possession" of the goods or services you offer or inferior parity found after the fact of the exchange)

Frankly, I'm much more comfortable using my AMEX (or Visa if I'm FORCED to :rolleyes: ) for purchases "anywhere" than I am in using cash...I have a lot more protections in place if someone chooses to target my card than I do if they target the (small amount of) cash in my pocket.

But don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with not using the 'net for things you are not comfortable with. My original post was merely to point out that the Internet isn't the problem. The Risk is human-derived and exists everywhere in every medium...including face-to-face transactions.

Dennis Peacock
03-23-2007, 6:02 PM
But don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with not using the 'net for things you are not comfortable with. My original post was merely to point out that the Internet isn't the problem. The Risk is human-derived and exists everywhere in every medium...including face-to-face transactions.

Now why didn't I say that?! :D

Don Bullock
03-24-2007, 9:26 AM
Bart, if you use the Internet, you areat risk for identity theft. Having said that the risk here isn't any higher than the your local store or restaurant, US Mail, FedEx, or even your trash collection. Unfortunately there are people who have nothing better to do than try to steal your money. I had a friend have his identity stolen by a Department of Motor Vehicles employee. She even used his dental insurance for over a year before getting caught. The biggest scam on the Internet is those who "troll" for information. They send out countless messages saying your bank needs for you to contact them and give a fake email address for you to use. I can't tell you how mwny of these I get at work. My SPAM filter at work handles over 600 SPAM messages a day and still about twenty get through daily. I don't even use that email address.