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Jim Becker
03-20-2007, 9:35 PM
Ok, I could have bought a saw/shaper combo. But the fact of the matter was that the extra cost was well beyond what I had saved for the sliding saw. I've been happy with a hefty router for the kind of things I do, anyway. But I also have been refining "space utilization" in my shop for a long time. What to do? Hmm...how about adding the router/shaper function to the slider? So I did. (And there are 40 pictures to follow to prove it...:p)

Admittedly, I put a few dollars into this project, but thanks to a great deal from Amazon and a little bit back from selling my other router table, it wasn't all that bad. (A really good expense check helped out a lot, too... ;) ...48.5 center per mile pays off when you drive a hybrid) For this project, I opted to use the "most excellent" cast iron router top system from Bench Dog as well as their cast iron lift. A Bench Dog switch was also incorporated into the mix. My existing PC 7518 would move from the old table to this setup upon completion. Everything else used was scrap or inventory material already in the shop.

We begin by unpacking the cast iron top and removing the cosmoline that protected it through shipping. The packaging was excellent. As you can see, the basic cast iron wing/table is just a little bit smaller than the factory outfeed table on the Mini Max S315 WS sliding table saw. Once the 4" extension is added to the "back", it gets closer in size. Any remaining difference really isn't all that material, IMHO.

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The bottom of the table also needed cleaning, so that happened at the bench and then I proceeded to measure for a box/cabinet to house the lift and router for noise and dust control. Measuring directly from the top insured that the cabinet would be easily mountable to the existing tapped holes.

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After cutting what would be the "top" of the cabinet and removing material where the lift would drop down, I carefully laid out where the bolt holes would need to go.

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A quick test fit with the 1/4" bolts insured that things would work out later. It needed to be snug enough not to be sloppy, but have just enough play that the cabinet could be easily mounted and bound to the top once "hand clearance" was reduced by the cabinet sides, etc.

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A few quick cuts at the saw for the three fixed cabinet sides were made using scrap 1/2" birch plywood from the rack.

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Jim Becker
03-20-2007, 9:36 PM
This was a quick "glue and brad" assembly deal and at this point we have a box with a top and three sides.

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The front (which points to the back.... :D ) needs a door for maintenance as well as a place to mount a dust collection fitting to feed the fence. Unlike my previous router table, I will have to use a hose rather than just a hole in the table top for the fence pickup. The door and side panel were made from scrap 3/4" poplar and pocket screws used to assemble the door.

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It's always good to check things out...so I did another test fit on the cast iron top using the bolts.

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I removed the factory outfeed table...and you can see where the router station will be going. (Thanks to Robert Tarr for assistance on this as the outfeed table is steel and too heavy to one-hand while dealing with the bolts) I also had to eliminate the nice $24 120mm-5" adapter on the saw's dust port as it was going to cause interference with the router cabinet hanging down from the router station top...a "bunch" of wraps with cloth tape took care of adapting the 5" hose to the slightly smaller 120mm port.

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The end of the router top that would abut the saw's own cast iron top need to receive a piece of aluminum angle. I used a marking gage to, well...mark...the proper position that would mate with the bottom of the Bench Dog top, leaving just a proverbial space for careful shimming.

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Jim Becker
03-20-2007, 9:36 PM
The angle was fastened to the saw using self-tapping screws into holes I drilled for the purpose.

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Now, I had to carefully consider how to support the other end of the router station. With a "normal" saw, a couple of legs would have been just peachy and they could almost go anywhere. Not so with a slider...the outrigger for the big panel-cutting sled extends and moves behind the saw a little bit as you move through a full cut. Here, I taped a simple stick on the end of the outrigger after mounting the panel sled to the slider so I could map out its travel.

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The pencil was nice, but in order to make sure that there was no doubt in my mind, I used some painter's tape to re-mark the "horseshoe" of travel...and a bit outside of the line of travel for good measure.

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At that point, I did a test mount of the table using a portable stand to hold up the assembly...I wanted to visualize where the leg would go on the back side (toward the wall) and think about how to support the front side. (closest to the slider)

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This was also the time to shim the table level with the saw top--I used foil tape so I could slowly build things up. Any bump here would be detrimental to using both the saw and the router station.

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Jim Becker
03-20-2007, 9:36 PM
Ok, this next part was a little scary, but frankly, the top needed to be able to be screwed to the aluminum angle. For that, I had to drill and countersink holes in the cast iron. Easy job, but measure three times and drill once!

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At this point, we're actually jumping ahead in time. The 4" top extension and lift were delayed in shipping from Amazon, but business travel and other things caused that to be a non-issue. When they arrived and I got back in the shop, it was time to bolt the extension to the top. I did that on the bench, but later had to tweak the alignment once the whole thing was temporarily remounted on the saw as I built the leg and support structure.

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With the top assembly (sans cabinet) temporarily back on the saw, it was time to fit the back leg. This required a little patience as the whole thing needed to be coplanar with the saw's table and be "ever so slightly lower" than the sliding wagon so stock clamped to the slider wouldn't hang on the top. This also was to test for both the leg position and size.

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As you can see, I chose a beefy leg. It's about 1.75" thick and 4" wide. Poplar. I think it will be quite capable of its job!

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After re-assembling the cabinet to the bottom of the top, I carefully sized and measured a cross piece that would support the bottom edge of the cabinet by resting on the top of the outrigger "hinge" and tying into the leg at the rear. A small piece of aluminum angle scrap would serve to hold it to the saw.

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Jim Becker
03-20-2007, 9:36 PM
At this point it was critical to check the slider again for smooth action without any hang-up on the router top. Honestly, I did need to make a very slight adjustment to the cross piece sizing to make that happen.

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The structure being complete, I moved on to mounting the switch in a convenient place below the slider at the end of the saw...it's actually in about the same position I'm used to from my old router table. Here the simple bracket is installed--again, using self-tapping screws in two drilled holes.

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The Bench Dog switch is a really nice design as it allows a lot of mounting flexibility. I chose to mount it from the bottom. A hex nut is slipped into the bottom track (there is one on the top; one on the bottom and two on each side of the switch) and then a hex-key bolt and lock washer are used to keep things tightly in place.

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This cast iron top system uses Allen screws as "levelers" for the router mounting plate or lift system. Here, I'm installing them after applying some thread sealant to help lock them in place after adjustment. They also get lock nuts not shown here.

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A few minutes of play resulted in the heavy Bench Dog lift system being about as level to the cast iron top as I could make it.

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Jim Becker
03-20-2007, 9:36 PM
The next step was to assemble the ProFence that comes with the cast iron table system. I also installed the 2.5" fitting on the cabinet to accommodate the hose to the fence pickup. Here are things from the "back".

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And the same point from the front. Please note that I can actually work on either side of the table if I need to. The top has an additional set of slots for the fence on the "front" side so it's easy to reverse. I can even turn the lift around very quickly if I need the height adjustment handy in the reverse orientation. (Of course, I do need to be sure not to knock myself silly on that sloping underside of the stairway...DAMHIKT! Rob Bodenschatz also has an appreciation of that after his visit today...:p )

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Installing the router in the lift came next. It's a relatively easy process. Man, this thing is heavy...and when you add the router...wow!

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The 4" dust port was installed on the end of the cabinet...I had this piece in a bin upstairs for quite a few years and was happy to remember it was there before I hauled off and order one from somewhere! A hole already existed for the router cord, so I made a small cover to seal things up. Having the connection to the switch assembly outside of the cabinet means I can easily unplug the router without walking all the way around the slider to get to the wall outlet that is supplying the power.

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Given I was done futzing around with the top, it was time for a final cleaning and a good wax job.

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Jim Becker
03-20-2007, 9:37 PM
Blue isn't my favorite color, especially on walls. I'm OK with deep blue, however, and felt that this router station would look nice in navy blue to somewhat match the dark blue trimming on the saw. So that's what I used.

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While the paint was drying, I busied myself with some other preparations. The Bench Dog lift comes with three VERY heavy insert rings. Like the lift in the table, each has leveling screws. The first step is to apply the thread sealer to insure that once adjusted, they stay that way.

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And then the Allen screws go in...

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Finally, each ring is put in place and jacked to level. This requires a little finessing as like the life, there are also two screws that hold it in place when in use...very heavy duty and very stable.

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Jim Becker
03-20-2007, 9:37 PM
As you can see, this lift system really has a clean, no-nonsense design. It's pure heavy duty...very shaper-like.

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And oh, my...real "above the table" bit changes with this setup! My bent wrenches may get retired...

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Of course, I had to test the dust collection and am very pleased with the air flow...it's really outstanding.

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There was a little space on the end of the cabinet that was convenient to keep the insert rings and a few other things handy.

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Well...this shop project is now officially done and ready to use. :) The picture sums up what the setup is for sawing with the router fence removed and just a clean surface in place. It also shows my old router table (sold today to Creeker Rob B) in the position that another planned shop project will slip into...a mobile tool cabinet for all my hand tools, router cutters, etc. But that's a story for a future thread...right now, it's just a gleam in my tired eyes.

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---
A final word about the Bench Dog products I used for this project: Outstanding.

Don Bullock
03-20-2007, 11:12 PM
Wow Jim. I marvel at your detailed, illustrated descriptions. What a great job!

Thank you for all you do around here. You have been especially friendly and helpful to me as I try to get acquainted to the "modern" equipment and tools as well as techniques. I'm amazed at your knowledge and willingness to help others.

Questions --
1. Is a cast iron router table worth the extra cost?
2. What are the advantages of a cast iron table top?

Corey Hallagan
03-20-2007, 11:34 PM
Excellent Jim. That is a top notch set up. How do you like the fence? I like my pro fence alot. You may not use it but the edge jointing feature is nice. I don't however care much for the bench dog switch, little button etc. I opted for another. Congrats on another great piece of equipment.

Corey

Kelly C. Hanna
03-21-2007, 12:09 AM
Wow, that's a very nice setup and it looks like many an exacting measurement was needed. It looks factory in the pics....

Jay Brewer
03-21-2007, 6:29 AM
Nice job Jim, great execution and use of wasted space. Looks like it came from the factory with it

Art Mulder
03-21-2007, 6:57 AM
Looks good, Jim.

I was a little puzzled as to why you were mounting the power switch onto the end of your slider, rather than into the box of the router table. But that was because I thought you were planning to use it from the "back". I think I understand that you plan to use it while standing in front of the track of the slider? But then, it seems like you'd have to lean a fair bit over the slider carriage to get at things. Standing on the opposite side results in a bonked head under the stairs, and standing on the side with the DC port would mean tripping over the DC hose. Okay, maybe I don't quite get it. Just what is the intended working position of the operator? :confused:

Jeffrey Makiel
03-21-2007, 6:57 AM
This post is better than a magazine. Thanks!
-Jeff :)

Rob Bodenschatz
03-21-2007, 7:15 AM
Hey! That looks familiar! :D

I was able to check out the new router/shaper setup in Jim's shop yesterday. It really is great. The router enclosure looks like it is just part of the saw. In fact, when I walked into his shop, I thought it was. Great choice on the blue. The bench dog router top & lift is REALLY solid as well.

You definitely made the right choice in replacing your router table with this option. ;):D

Great description of the process. Thanks Jim.

Jim Dunn
03-21-2007, 7:37 AM
Great tutorial about the leg especially. I like the time and effort you take with your projects. Just watch your head with those stairs. Did you know that scars don't grow hair?:)

Rob Bodenschatz
03-21-2007, 7:45 AM
Just watch your head with those stairs.
LOL.

Keep quiet Jim.

Al Navas
03-21-2007, 7:48 AM
OUTSTANDING, Jim! Wonderful documentation of your procedures. Thanks for sharing.


.

Jim Becker
03-21-2007, 8:56 AM
Questions --
1. Is a cast iron router table worth the extra cost?
2. What are the advantages of a cast iron table top?
That depends on the individual. The mass makes for a rock-solid and vibration free routing solution. For those with right-tilt saws and using the wing as a replacement, it makes for a "factory installed" look and feel as well as retaining the mass of the original wing that is replaced. For me, it was worth the investment. For others, it will not be so. If you like the "feel" of cast iron and its attributes...this is a good product for you.


I think I understand that you plan to use it while standing in front of the track of the slider? But then, it seems like you'd have to lean a fair bit over the slider carriage to get at things. Standing on the opposite side results in a bonked head under the stairs, and standing on the side with the DC port would mean tripping over the DC hose. Okay, maybe I don't quite get it. Just what is the intended working position of the operator?
The intended operator position is in the "normal" spot which does put the slider between the "beer-belly" and the router. But it's not much more distance than it was with my previous router table...a few inches...and not uncomfortable for me. It wouldn't work for someone much shorter than myself. They would be better with the factory shaper where the spindle is closer to the slider. I'm 5'11" and it's not a reach. For them, the back side would be better for normal table routing. And...I get to use the slider as a "sled" for things like coping and panel raising. Having the option to work from the other side will be convenient, however, especially for working with small pieces. Best of both worlds...outside of the aforementioned "head danger"... ;)

Neil Lamens
03-21-2007, 9:33 AM
Hey Jim.............that was excellent....."picture perfect"!!!!!!

Neil

Paul Greathouse
03-21-2007, 9:41 AM
Darn Jim,

I thought I could really pack some pictures into multiple posts, you have me beat, in both quantity and quality. Great thread, Thanks.

Ted Miller
03-21-2007, 9:45 AM
Jim, Very nice clean work. Will the fence be tall enough for the stock you run through. How is the slider working out, is it what you thought it would be. Hey I actually like the color or the RT...

Jim Becker
03-21-2007, 9:48 AM
Ted, this router table fence is slightly shorter than my previous fence in height and recognizably shorter in length than my previous fence. Vertically, it's not likely to be an issue as I rarely run something tall through the router. The shorter fence length shouldn't be a big issue, but may take a little getting used to. I can always make a longer one for a particular need if necessary...

I am extremely pleased with the slider so far. I do need to do some additional adjustment to the rip fence rail, however...I need it to be a little smoother and think I missed on the alignment just a little when I originally mounted it. No big deal...just a little wrench work in my copious free time... ;)

Don Bullock
03-21-2007, 9:49 AM
... And...I get to use the slider as a "sled" for things like coping and panel raising. Having the option to work from the other side will be convenient, however, especially for working with small pieces. Best of both worlds...;)

Great idea setting it up to take advantage of your slider. Excellent.

Thanks for the reply about the cast iron router table. It's definately something for me to consider as I move along setting up my shop.

Jeff Kerr
03-21-2007, 11:16 AM
Jim,

As usual, excellent work! I must say that I tip my hat to you. I would have been too nervous to make such modifications to that beautiful slider.

Carroll Courtney
03-21-2007, 12:14 PM
Nice job Jim,I know it took alot of to to post all that info,and your attention to details shows in your pics.Thanks for letting us into your shop.

Art Mulder
03-21-2007, 12:19 PM
...outside of the aforementioned "head danger"
Jim,

In my basement there is a "kids hideaway" tucked under the basement stairs by the previous owner. What they did was cover the drywall under the stairs with some sort of thin fabri-covered foam. It is only about 3/4-1" thick, but it is enough to protect kids (or adults acting like kids :rolleyes: ) from getting banged up by the low ceiling.

Just thought I'd mention it, in case you want to staple some thin padding up under your stairs. Even a thin pad will ease the effect of head bumps.

...art

Jim Becker
03-21-2007, 1:51 PM
In my basement there is a "kids hideaway" tucked under the basement stairs by the previous owner. What they did was cover the drywall under the stairs with some sort of thin fabri-covered foam. It is only about 3/4-1" thick, but it is enough to protect kids (or adults acting like kids from getting banged up by the low ceiling.

Just thought I'd mention it, in case you want to staple some thin padding up under your stairs. Even a thin pad will ease the effect of head bumps.

Very good suggestion, Art. Thanks!

Todd Solomon
03-21-2007, 2:31 PM
Great job, Jim! I really like that cast-iron Bench Dog router table. I had made a router table for my SC4 years ago, but didn't have the room to put it on my Felder. It was really handy for dados, although now I use a dado cutter in the saw. Well, since I'm selling my standalone planer and jointer, and replacing it with a jointer-planer, I've got the room to put it on the K700 in the coming months.

The only downside is that I'll have to paint the legs green ;)

Here's some pictures of it, when it was installed to my Mini Max...

Cliff Rohrabacher
03-21-2007, 5:36 PM
That's really nice. When I hung mine off my slider I didn't build a complete enclosure and I got my router table flush and level off the cast iron saw table somewhat differently.

I used two dead straight jointed beams clamped to the iron table projecting out over the router table. I clamped the router table to the beams. This created a parallel relationship between the router table top and the cast iron saw top.

The wood router table was sitting in a gell of slow cure epoxy. Unlike your system there is no adjustment but I don't need any unless the table assembly changes shape.

I have found that the router table being so close to the slider is a sweet sweet arangment. You are really going to enjoy what you have done there.

Dave Malen
03-21-2007, 8:55 PM
Jim,
I admire your courage drilling into the cast iron of your expensive new router top. Great pictorial as always.
Dave

Jeff Miller
03-21-2007, 9:59 PM
I agree with Jim on the cast iron being rock solid and vibration free, mine is an extra table saw top used for an extension and router table. The router is bolted below the extra saw blade slot. In the picture I don't have the router fence on the router part of the table.

I too am building a new router fence to add dust collection for it, but will only be sucking from the fence and not underneath, I'm not sure how well that will work but will find out soon.

Will post pictures of new fence when completed.



By the way Jim very nice professional looking work and I didn't mean to hijack your post


Have a nice day


Jeff


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/woodfarmer/shop/shop040.jpg

Wayne Watling
03-21-2007, 10:09 PM
Jim, You did a great job on your sliding router attachment, I've already put mine to good use, your going to love it..

Regards,
Wayne

Ed Kowaski
03-22-2007, 12:05 AM
Jim said "I do need to do some additional adjustment to the rip fence rail, however...I need it to be a little smoother and think I missed on the alignment just a little when I originally mounted it"

Jim, I shim the front or back of the fence with paper for a quick fix and also to see if there is in fact room for improvment.

glenn bradley
03-22-2007, 1:02 AM
Jim,

Great pictorial and a beautiful job of making an add-on look like a factory option. Send a pic to the sawmaker and thank them for "offering this great new option" . . . It'll freak 'em out!

Jim Becker
03-22-2007, 9:46 AM
Jim said "I do need to do some additional adjustment to the rip fence rail, however...I need it to be a little smoother and think I missed on the alignment just a little when I originally mounted it"

Jim, I shim the front or back of the fence with paper for a quick fix and also to see if there is in fact room for improvment.

The issue is with the fence rail positioning adjustments. Since it's a round rail, there is nothing to shim. The interim "fix" has been to release the lever that allows front to back fence adjustment (it slides back and forth) when I move it over the extension table to store it out of the way. The extension table needs re-leveling once I loosen the fence rail bolts as part of the final adjustments. This isn't a big issue...I just haven't taken the time to deal with it.

Ed Kowaski
03-23-2007, 12:24 AM
ahhh I thought you meant the fence to blade and wagon alignment. That is easy to shim. Loosen the aluminum fence clamp insert the shim to the front or back of the casting depending on which way you'd like the fence to move and tighten the clamp.

I had to fiddle with what you speak of as well. I find keeping the bar waxed really makes a difference too. Takes a while to get this stuff all dialed in but it's fun. The fence rides on the clamp bolts, I don't like that, think I may put a piece of something there for it.

Jim Becker
03-23-2007, 8:55 AM
The fence is dead on to the blade...no shimming necessary. My issue is mis-alignment of the fence rail vertically which affects sliding the fence back and forth. It's not the fault of the machine...the "assembler" didn't do it correctly... ;)

Paul Sidbury
03-25-2007, 12:26 PM
Jim,

Do you know the dimensions (how far from the side and space in between) of the 3 hole pattern of the benchdog top on the side that you attach to the tablesaw? Thanks.

Paul

Dennis Peacock
03-25-2007, 12:30 PM
Beautiful work Jim and outstanding design and function. My hat is off to you my friend. :D :cool: :cool:

rodrigo sosa
01-08-2015, 12:40 PM
this is by far one of the most clever ideas! oldie but goldie!

Jim Becker
01-08-2015, 6:06 PM
Thanks, Rodrigo. It's been quite functional. I would like it better if I was able to access from the back and have more head-room, but due to the layout of my shop and a slanting stairway just behind the saw, that's not practical. The router is also positioned far enough away from the slider's wagon that it's also not too practical to try and use the wagon for material handling. A saw/shaper combo is much better in that respect, but such a tool wasn't in the cards financially when I was buying.

I will also note that if I needed to make this router setup independent of my slider, it wouldn't be too difficult to make that happen. Fortunately, I do not believe that will ever be required unless I win the PowerBall lottery and can build a much larger shop. :D

Don Morris
01-08-2015, 10:48 PM
I'm glad you liked the Bench Dog lift system, including profence. I've been using the earlier style lift for years and been satisfied. I refer to it as bullet proof. Once in a while I think about switching to an all aluminum fence, but if it's good enough for you, then my choice was justified. Beautiful work as always. Congrats. Thanks for sharing.