Ray Iles English Pattern Mortis Chisels; my 2 cents

[Don C Peterson]

Based on some of the threads I found here I decided to buy a couple of these babys over at ToolsForWoodworking.com and thought that I would share my experience.

By way of background, I started out with the seemingly obligatory set of Marples blue chips and quickly learned that they were not going to be my primary choice for any kind of real work... Over the following year or so I purchased several Japanese chisels which were a huge improvement. However, I learned the hard way that you should not use them to pry out the bottom of mortises :(

So began my quest to find a couple of good mortise chisels, I was tempted to go with some Japanese style mortise chisels, but realized that while the body might be heavier than their beveled cousins, the edge certainly isn't (not if it's sharp at any rate) and that wonderfully hard steel that holds an edge so well would probably be just as likely to chip on a mortise chisel as on my existing ones.

So I eagerly unpacked my two new Ray Iles mortise chisels and admired their heft and good looks. My initial impression was that these chisels are much bigger than I expected. Joel at ToolsForWoodworking recommends just using them out of the box, but that runs counter to everything I've learned, and I noticed that the secondary bevel was quite large, so I immediately start to flatten the backs.

I quickly realized that the backs weren't perfectly flat but think to myself that this isn't a big deal. None of my Japanese chisels were "flat" and neither were any of my LN plane irons, and the Ray Iles chisels are closer than most. I quickly learned, however, that D2 steel is TOUGH! It proved much more difficult to flatten than anything I've ever experienced. Initially I thought my fine DMT plate would get the job done quickly, it wasn't long before I flipped it over to the coarse side and proceeded to work up a sweat...

Finally I prevailed and got the chisels tuned up to my satisfaction. As for those who say that D2 (and A2 for that matter) can't be honed as finely as other types of steel, I can't see it. I consider my planes and chisels sharp when I can easily shave with them. I have no reliable means of measuring sharpness beyond that, and while I did have a bit more work getting these chisels to that point, my expectation is that like the A2 steel in my LN planes, it will stay that way longer.

Now how do they work? Let me just say WOW! Now granted, I was moving from using bevel sided Japanese chisels to these, but the difference is night and day. The control that you have with those big oval handles is wonderful, and knowing how tough the steel is I felt no hesitation in whacking these things and prying out the waste.

I can't say that the edge didn't suffer some degradation from my testing, but it was still serviceable after several runs through 2" thick Red Oak. Now, when I say "degradation" don't think edge failure here; a few quick passes on my 8000 water stone and a strop were all that was required to put it right. At this point I became a believer.

To sum up, these chisels are awesome. If you need a real mortise chisel you can't go wrong with these. Just be prepared to spend a bit of time and elbow grease to get through the initial tuning.

[Rob Luter]

I found the Marples Blue Chip chisels to be a decent value, once they're sharpened properly. They make a lousy mortise chisel, but a perfectly servicable bench chisel. They hold an edge as well. I would prefer that all the surfaces were polished but as far as bang for the buck I'm very pleased.

[Mark Stutz]

I've heard nothing but good reviews about these chisels. Chris Schwartz also commented that his caorse diamond stone got a real workout as well! I only wish I liked the looks of this style, though I suspect that someday function will win out over form!

Mark

[Phil Hirz]

Here is one more vote for the Ray Iles mortise chisels. They take a little bit to get them tuned up, but once that is over they work great. On top of that they look awesome and are fun to use.

[Alan Turner]

Another yes vote! For those who have not used them, be prepared to cut a 3/4" deep mortise in just 3 passes. And this is done without excessive mallet blows.

[Andrew Williams]

I also recently bought a 3/8" Iles mortise chisel and am very happy with it. It cut well right out of the box, and a little bit better after some honing. I know the preferred method is to really whack them hard but I found it worked better to hit them with a medium blow and just take smaller chunks. I end up with prettier mortises that way. Instead of practicing I just embarked on making a chisel rack by chopping out many through mortises in a long thick piece of wood. After about 2-3 hours they were starting to come in pretty straight and clean, and fast. The tool is easy to use though, even the first few mortises were serviceable.

[Don C Peterson]

I found the Marples Blue Chip chisels to be a decent value, once they're sharpened properly. They make a lousy mortise chisel, but a perfectly servicable bench chisel. They hold an edge as well. I would prefer that all the surfaces were polished but as far as bang for the buck I'm very pleased.

I still use the Marples chisels, but primarily to do things like clean up glue joints and other "menial" tasks where I don't want to risk my good chisels. And they are really easy to sharpen.

If I hadn't bought them first, I'd probably go out an buy them anyway, just to have an inexpensive set of chisels around. So I agree that for the money, they are a pretty good value.

[Wiley Horne]

Hi Folks,

What are you all sharpening them with?

Wiley

[Andrew Williams]

I found that Scary Sharpening™ them worked fine EXCEPT that I cut up my 2000 grit sheet quickly. It was quite difficult to use my usual side-to-side sharpening movement and had to revert to forward-back. This made the chisel very sharp but sliced up my 2000 so next time I will use the same method, only switching to the hard Arkansas stone for the final honing. Easy to do it without a jig as long as you use forward-back motion.

[Mike K Wenzloff]

fwiw, I grind the main bevel fairly shallow. Only the tip is honed per se. It is done by laying the primary bevel flat on the far end of the stone--but sandpaper work as well--and drawing the mortise chisel back towards. As it is drawn back, the chisel is raised to about 35 to 40 degrees.

This makes the transition to the secondary bevel rounded and only the tip truly honed.

These are mine...

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/mortise_chisels1.jpg

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/mortise_chisels.jpg

In any case, it only takes a few swipes on a 2k stone to both refine and sharpen the primary following grinding, and a touch up swipe now and again while working.

Take care, Mike

[Derek Cohen]

Like Mike, mine have a primary bevel of 20 degrees and a secondary of 30-35 degrees.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/OBMC1.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Don C Peterson]

Hi Folks,

What are you all sharpening them with?

Wiley

I don't think I'd want to use anything but a diamond plate for the initial tuning, maybe diamond paste, but I haven't used it so I can't speak from experience.

Once the thing is flattened and the bevel ground to the proper shape, I found that both my Ice Bear 1000/6000 combo and a Shapton 8000 worked to polish/hone, but I actually prefer my Black Arkansas Stone. It doesn't put quite the mirror shine on it as the 8000, but the Arkansas Stone is a bit more forgiving of my unsteady hands. I.e. it doesn't cut as fast and it also is much more resistant to any gouging. For some reason, when trying to hone these chisels I tended to do more damage to my water stones than with my other chisels and planes...

[Wiley Horne]

Great photos! I hollow grind my Japanese mortise chisels (Chutaro Imai) to about 25 degrees overall, then hone the tip to a bit under 30 degrees. The mortise strategy I use is a bit different--cut a full-depth V in the middle of the mortise, then widen it to the corners.

Reason for my question: I was wondering whether the D2 steel was posing any issues for anyone. I think Don Peterson answered my question by saying that as long as he keeps a long hollow on the chisel, that the tip honing goes OK without resort to diamond media.

Thanks, Wiley

[Robert Trotter]

Wiley,
How do you find your Japanese mortice chisels? How do they work in softwoods and hardwoods? Would they stand up well to hard woods like Ipe?
Are they just for "wacking" or are they good with a paring action for mortices, too?

The reason I am asking is that I need some mortice chisels. I am thinking Japanese (maybe Ouchi) which is where I live or get a Ray Iles chisel (imported). About the same price in the end.

The paring action, I find better on softwoods (depending on the depth) when using my regular 6mm Japanese butt chisel equivalent.

Robert

[Bruce Page]

Does anyone besides “ToolsForWoodworking.com” sell the Ray Iles mortise chisels?
Maybe I just have bad timing, but every time I look for the full set, they are always out of stock.

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Hi Bruce,

The full set is 6 chisels--I would reckon you may not need all 6. My most used one is 5/16", though I also use the 1/4" and 3/8" often enough to justify them. The 1/2" rarely gets used. Not that Joel currently has all sizes in indivually either. It is a testament to their acceptance and hopefully use.

Take care, Mike

[Wiley Horne]

Hello Robert,

Like most everyone else, I like the choices I've made. I like the Imai mortise chisels a lot. The steel is very hard but also tough--they take hollow grinding well, and acute bevels. The Ouchi have a very good reputation. What I have used the Imai on is figured cherry, flame birch, white oak--the usual No. Amer. figured hardwoods. They would of course be fine in softwood.

I use a 16oz. chisel hammer on them (450gm). In fact, the hammer is about my favorite tool in the shop, and I like to use them on planes and chisels. I don't like paring with a ringed chisel--it chews up the heel of my hand. So if you like to pare mortises, I would suggest an unringed mortise chisel. YMMV, though.

If I were going to do much mortising in tropicals or ipe decking, I would use a cheaper chisel and a 20oz hammer.

The Iles look to me like a great all-round mortising chisel. However, I think more attention needs to be paid to the special circumstance posed by the D2 steel. It's manageable, but you do need to have a grinder, and you need to be given some instruction, and you need to know what to expect--otherwise it can be very disconcerting. I know when I was new to the different steels coming on the market, I bought a Holtey S53 blade (when they first came out), and that thing was murder. It just laughed at waterstones and oilstones. Same thing with HSS steel like M2 in planes. These steel issues are manageable--by grinding, and diamond helps a lot--but you need to know what to expect. So I think that the Iles chisels plus a grinder would be a good bet if you like to pare mortises and work in ipe--plus they're fine for striking too.

Wiley

[Hank Knight]

I think more attention needs to be paid to the special circumstance posed by the D2 steel. It's manageable, but you do need to have a grinder, and you need to be given some instruction, and you need to know what to expect--otherwise it can be very disconcerting.
Wiley

Wiley,

I have three of the Iles OBM chisels and I've not had any issues with the D2 steel. It's hard; but, with a little patience, I've been able to flatten the backs and hone them fairly routinely with my Norton water stones. Granted, I've not had to regrind the bevels, and I don't see a need to do that any time soon. Otherwise, they seem pretty tame to me.

Hank

[Joel Moskowitz]

Bruce,
If you order a set we will ship partial orders at no extra charge. But Like Mike says unless you really want a full set there is no real need. I think one or two sizes covers just about all the work most people do - just not the same two sizes for everyone.
We have had trouble keeping all the sizes in stock at the same time. It is a combination of huge demand and a steel shortage. Ray is working as fast as he can but he has also has had trouble getting the steel he needs. THe various sizes of D2 he needs are not commonly stocked in England and we have been hit by delays in just getting the steel in.
We are the only retailers of the Ray Iles Mortise chisels in the world. Ray has sold a few directly himself, but in general he doesnt keep much stock around.

Joel

[Bruce Page]

Thanks Joel. I'll think on which ones I want and get a order in shortly.