Euro hinge ?

[Al Willits]

Well, after my last cabinet making class, I am all set to try the Eruo style hinges on both the latest storage cabinet and the kitchen cabinets.
So off to online shopping I went...........
Seems there are a few choices to be made...figures...:)
Using the search feature I've come up with Blum as the most mentioned, but there seems to be several models to chose from.

Looking for (I think) a concealed hinge that probably opens about 110-120 degrees and will be used on raised pannel doors, with a framed front.
Also I noticed they have self closing hinges, they worth it?

Not sure if ya need any additional info, but any suggestions would be welcome.
tia.....again

Al

[John Gregory]

I just bought a bunch here (http://www.specialtysupplies.com/). 110* with face frame cabinets.

I bought this hinge (http://www.specialtysupplies.com/blum-compac-degree-faceframe-screw-hinge-p-1923.html)
And this plate (http://www.specialtysupplies.com/overlayedge-mount-p-1927.html)

It was the best price that I could find, and yes self closing is well worth it.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Here's a good resource for ordering hinges as well as technical information:

http://www.cabinetparts.com/

One basic question you did not address - overlay doors or not??? Also, when using Euro hinges with 35mm cup holes, be certain you are aware of the dimension and depth needed for the cup hole. There was a recent thread about the cup hole cutting into the edge profile.

[Al Willits]

""""""""""
One basic question you did not address - overlay doors or not???
"""""""""

If I remember my terms right, yes they are overlay, versus flush with the face frame, I think that's what you mean???
Thanks all
Al....the learning curve continues...:)

[Al Willits]

Just called Beasty and she wants the 153 or 170 degree openings, that seems to narrow the choices down a bit, still confused... but we might be winning though..:)

Al

[Gilbert Vega]

I was looking at some of the sites listed and have a question on terminilogy. Is a full overlay one that covers the faceframe entirely? Is a half overlay on that partially covers the face frame (by say 1/2") or is it one that has a lip at the edge so that it is only partially overlayed? Thanks.

[Al Willits]

Gilbert, try this site and scroll down a bit, I don't still have a clue, but it describes what your looking for...I think.

http://www.cabinetparts.com/shop_2006/part_details/?SID=b8621c90b256e10b516e81fc224b1e05&id=BH71T6550&cat=311

Al

[Marion Rood]

I was looking at some of the sites listed and have a question on terminilogy. Is a full overlay one that covers the faceframe entirely? Is a half overlay on that partially covers the face frame (by say 1/2") or is it one that has a lip at the edge so that it is only partially overlayed? Thanks. I am not an expert. I use inset hinges often. The full overlay will over the edge of frameless cab. The half overlay covers one-half of the edge of a frameless cab. When you are using framed cabinets, you need to use hinges for that. If you want to have a lip on door they are making a hinge for that now. I saw one in rockler catalog.
Marion

[Jim Becker]

Cabparts is nice, but nearly twice the price of Woodworker's Hardware on some items...

[Jeffrey Makiel]

What you need is a Euro-hinge specifically for face framed cabinets...but you must check the width of the faceframe, and the amount of overlay (or overlap) that the door has over the faceframe. Full overlay usually means 3/4" or 19mm overlap. This type of hinge usually attaches to the 'edge' of the faceframe. However, there are faceframe Euro-hinges that also attach to the 'face' of the faceframe too. The edge mount is a little easier to attach, and may be a bit stronger if folks tend to 'hang' on the door when it is open.

Self closing means that when the door is almost closed (less than 10 degrees open) the internal spring inside the hinge will close the door and keep it closed. That is, the door stays open after opening it past 10 degrees. Therefore, no magnetic or mechanical hasp is needed to keep the door closed.

When buying hinges, make sure it has easy adjustments in all three directions: in/out, side to side and up/down. Some cheap ones lack the up/down feature. The joy of Euro-hinges is that they are easily adjustable to ensure a uniform gap between door panels even if the doors are not quite sized correctly or the carcass is out of square/plumb.

I've used Blum, Hettich, Mepla and probably a couple others. They seem to be all pretty good.

Some hinge manufacturers require you to purchase screws seperately. Although you can probably find them at your hardware store, I recommend ordering them with your hinge. Press-in hinges are also available but these are usually for commercial furniture factories and are not recommended by me.

-Jeff :)

[Al Willits]

Jeff, in class we used the one the attached to the inside edge of the face frame, frame was 3/4" solid wood and the doors probably overlayed the face frame by 3/4" too, if that helps.
That's what I'll be building also.
Not quite ready for flush doors.

I may just go buy a pair of them at woodcraft to see what they are, but I seemed to have missed the part in class about these hinges being multiple models for multiple uses....:)

Thanks.

Al

[Jeff Wright]

I noticed they have self closing hinges, they worth it?
Al

I recall seeing/reading a hinge (I think Blum) that has the add-on self-closure device so you perhaps could add that at a later time if you decide you want it. Or, buy one set and try it out; if you like it, order the other add-ons. You install the basic 3-position adjustable hinge, then, if you want the self-closure, add that extra piece.

[Paul Johnstone]

Actually, that is a good idea to go to Woodcraft and buy a couple pairs of what you think you and your wife would like.. Then you can quickly bang together a scrap rectangle and 3/4 plywood "door", and see how you like the look. It would also give you practice installing them. Trust me, when you drill into your real cabinet door, you don't want to make a mistake.

Another tip.. I put a slight champfer (45 degree angle cut) on the inside of the door with a router bit. This gives you a little bit of additional clearance between the inside edge of the door and the face frame. That way, if your face frame isn't 100% plumb the door won't rub when it opens.
It doesn't have to be much, I think I do roughly an 1/16-1/8 inch.. it makes a difference in fitting the door but the champfer is so small it's not noticable to the human.

[Al Willits]

Paul, are you talking about flush fitting doors?
These will be overlaid, if it makes any difference?

Al

[Larry Fox]

Al, for my cabinets I used Cabinetparts.com and I went with Blum Clip-top 120-degree hinges with a base plate called "Clip Base Plates for Face Frame Cabinet". The link for the base plates are right below the hinge section. They worked great. I used them on a full-overlay raised panel door (1/2" overlay). One thing to be really careful about is the edge treatment you put on the door. The cups are drilled fairly close to the edge of the door and deep and you want to make sure that your edge treatment doesn't intersect with the cup hole.

[Richard McComas]

Here is some thoughts on the blum 170 hinge. For face frame cabinets I like the blum 120* clip top hinge and face frame base plate.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Hinge_Swing_170_or_125_degrees.html

[Al Willits]

Larry, using solid wood so there shouldn't be any problems with the edges.
Also overlay hasn't be decided on and 1/2" will work fine I'm thinking, thanks.

Rich, I'll show Beasty that, good article, 125 it is.
Thanks.

Al

[Al Willits]

Larry, using solid wood so there shouldn't be any problems with the edges.
Also overlay hasn't be decided on and 1/2" will work fine I'm thinking, thanks.

Rich, I'll show Beasty that, good article, 125 it is.
Thanks.

Al

[Richard McComas]

One other thing to consider when deciding on the overlay is what kind of edge profile you want on the door edges. If you use an edge profile that undercuts the backside of the door like a finger pull I find 1/2 inch doesn't leave much coverage. I always us the 3/4 overlay which will take care of most any edge profile. Also I don't use any profile on the back edge of the hinge side of the door because the hole for the cup hinge is very close to the edge.

[Al Willits]

Richard, I didn't understand half of what you said, but the cabinet doors will be basic raised pannels and the stile and rail are gonna be basic stuff and be flat on the inside....so far...any fancy stuff will be on the outside, if I get brave.
But I'm easily swayed and 3/4" will work too.....:confused: :D

Al...who thought he had all this figured out...:)

[Al Willits]

OK, with a lot of help here and from the good people at cabinet parts who made some suggestions, I deleted the 170 degree ones and picked these 120 ones.

http://www.cabinetparts.com/shop_2006/part_details/?SID=b706e9f54a35f7badbf6a6cbc11ea733&id=BH71T5550&cat=310

http://www.cabinetparts.com/shop_2006/part_details/?SID=b706e9f54a35f7badbf6a6cbc11ea733&id=BH175L6600.22&cat=322

These seem to be headed in the right direction?
Any of you ever stop by the first case is on me, thanks.

Al

[Larry Fox]

Al - I used solid wood for mine also. When I mentioned edge treatment I was intending to mean any profile that you might route on the edge. You have to make sure that the profile you route isn't so deep that you end up busting into the cup for the hinge. Sorry for any confusion.

[luc gendron]

If you have a face frame you have to choices:

1. regular clip on Blum hinge with a face frame adapter plate.
See http://www.hardwareattic.ca/en/BLUM_HINGES_23/BLUM_clip_75.html
Choose any hinge opening 100, 107, 120 (170 deg is not recommended for face frame applications) . Then decide full or half overlay.
Then choose the mounting plate 175L86022180 (from the same link above)

2. Compact hinge for face frame
See http://www.hardwareattic.ca/en/BLUM_HINGES_23/Compact_(face_frame)_5390.html
Then decide what type of overlay you want and choose the appropriate plate.

My choice would be item 1 above. The clip on plate from Blum is of better quality than the compact 33 from Blum. I don't recommend 170 deg hinge for all kitchen cabinet doors but they are beautifull on furniture but keep in mind that they take up more space inside the cabinet

Any more questions, write to hardwareattic@yahoo.ca . They are my supplier for all my cabinet hardware and will answer any further questions you might have.

Hope this helps

[luc gendron]

I think I'm double posting this reply?
If you have a face frame you have to choices:

1. regular clip on Blum hinge with a face frame adapter plate.
See http://www.hardwareattic.ca/en/BLUM_...M_clip_75.html (http://www.hardwareattic.ca/en/BLUM_HINGES_23/BLUM_clip_75.html)
Choose any hinge opening 100, 107, 120 (170 deg is not recommended for face frame applications) . Then decide full or half overlay.
Then choose the mounting plate 175L86022180 (from the same link above)

2. Compact hinge for face frame
See http://www.hardwareattic.ca/en/BLUM_...ame)_5390.html (http://www.hardwareattic.ca/en/BLUM_HINGES_23/Compact_(face_frame)_5390.html)
Then decide what type of overlay you want and choose the appropriate plate.

My choice would be item 1 above. The clip on plate from Blum is of better quality than the compact 33 from Blum. I don't recommend 170 deg hinge for all kitchen cabinet doors but they are beautifull on furniture but keep in mind that they take up more space inside the cabinet

Any more questions, write to hardwareattic@yahoo.ca . They are my supplier for all my cabinet hardware and will answer any further questions you might have.

Hope this helps

[Al Willits]

Clip 71T555180
Product Number : 71T555180
Price : $12.00 CDN http://www.hardwareattic.ca/vm/newca/images/cart.gif (javascript: openCart() http://www.hardwareattic.ca/vm/libraries/imageThumbnails3.php?path=../../vm/newvisual/attachments/494/309.jpg&x=140&y=140&q=95 (javascript:void(open() PRICED PER PAIR WITH MOUNTING PLATE
HINGE Full overlay with spring. 120° aperture angle hinge.
Check out our super deals section for bulk prices. Buy lots, save big time!

clip on plate 175L86022180
Product Number : 175L86022180
Price : $1.50 CDN http://www.hardwareattic.ca/vm/newca/images/cart.gif (javascript: openCart() http://www.hardwareattic.ca/vm/libraries/imageThumbnails3.php?path=../../vm/newvisual/attachments/494/e74381ceac0d5d783fe71c15bb24fb7e.jpg&x=140&y=140&q=95 (javascript:void(open()
MOUNTING PLAT CLIP FRAME ADJT OMM Attached with wood screws (see section 1). Height adjustment +/- 2mm.
FOR FACE FRAME MOUNTING

Well if this worked, are these what your suggesting Luc?
And I think your saying these are stronger/better ?
Thanks.

Thanks for clearing that up Larry.

Al

[Jeff Caskie]

Which hinge is best for making a face frame look like a frameless? I would like to hide as much of the frame as possible. I looked at all the links provided.. and at Rockler/Woodcraft.

This (http://www.hardwareattic.ca/en/BLUM_HINGES_23/Compact_%28face_frame%29_5390.html) one appears to have the most overlay that I have found so far:


Edge mount plate (1") 130111180
Product Number : 130111180
Mounting plate 1" overlay.
For face frame hinge 33360180.
Attached with #6 x 5/8" wood screws.

Would this be the best choice?

[Sam Shank]

Try ahturf.com

Best prices that I could find. Beat all the other places...

[Al Willits]

Thanks Sam, I'll check it out.

Appears I have the overlay thing wrong also, the April issue of Workbench has a very good picture of what it is, seems half overlay is what the lord of my life wants...:)

Al

[Paul Johnstone]

Paul, are you talking about flush fitting doors?
These will be overlaid, if it makes any difference?

Al

I am talking about overlay doors. When you open the door, the edge of the door closest to the hinges comes really close to the inside edge of the face frame (the part of the face frame holding the hinge). If the face frame isn't perfectly straight, you will get some rubbing. The first time I used Euro hinges, I had doors that were about 4' high.. I had a slight bow in the face frame that rubbed. Putting the chamfer all the way around the edge of the back of the door eliminated the rubbing.. It was so unnoticable that I did it every time I made a door.. Basically, you knock the corner off the door, giving more clearance.

It's hard to explain in words. If you can open a kitchen cabinent door with a Euro hinge, you'll see how the door edge gets really close to the face frame.

I use 1/2" overlay, but I suspect this is an issue regardless of the overlay amount.

[Al Willits]

I think I'm getting 1/2" and 1/2 overlay mixed up, but what you say makes sense to me now, thanks.
In fact the guys who taught the class had some rubbing on the inside of one the doors and mentioned some adjusting would take care of that, a little chamfer sounds like a nice prevention to that, thanks.

Al

[Chip Olson]

Try ahturf.com

Best prices that I could find. Beat all the other places...

I looked at ahturf.com recently when I ordered the hardware for my cabinets, and while their prices were excellent, their shipping rates were beyond exorbitant. Woodworker's Hardware gave me a better overall deal by far.

[Sam Shank]

I looked at ahturf.com recently when I ordered the hardware for my cabinets, and while their prices were excellent, their shipping rates were beyond exorbitant. Woodworker's Hardware gave me a better overall deal by far.

If you're ordering only a few hinges, probably yes. My order was like $400, and beat the other places by like $40-50 including shipping.

One thing that they have substantially cheaper than anywhere else was the blumotion tandem 21". They were $6-25!! a set cheaper than the ones WITHOUT blumotion from the other places.

$26.40 per set w/ blumotion 21" (without locking mech, rear attach)
$19.60 " " w/o blumotion

$32.42 per set from wwhardware
$25.13

$51.99 per pair from rockler (w/blumotion)

I'd rather pay the extra dollar and get the blumotion. It's really cool, too. Great if you have kids that slam the drawers shut.

[luc gendron]

This plate has unlimited overlay application with the compact hinge:
http://www.hardwareattic.ca/en/BLUM_HINGES_23/Compact_(face_frame)_5390.html

See product number 133024180

[luc gendron]

Yes! Give them an email or talk to Eric, ask them to substitute the mounting plates included with the 120 deg hinge for face frame application plates. These guys are great I deal with them on a weekly basis and they are very helpful in accomodating special requests.

[Jeff Caskie]

This plate has unlimited overlay application with the compact hinge:
http://www.hardwareattic.ca/en/BLUM_HINGES_23/Compact_(face_frame)_5390.html (http://www.hardwareattic.ca/en/BLUM_HINGES_23/Compact_%28face_frame%29_5390.html)

See product number 133024180

Interesting.. I did not see that one. I guess it functions by connecting directly to the face of the cabinet. If that is the case, does the cabinet door stick out a certain degree from the face frame (not sure if I would like that)? Is that also true of the edge mount plates?

Are there any other options (other brands/styles etc) that offer more than 3/4" overlay?

[Jeff Caskie]

Interesting.. I did not see that one. I guess it functions by connecting directly to the face of the cabinet. If that is the case, does the cabinet door stick out a certain degree from the face frame (not sure if I would like that)? Is that also true of the edge mount plates?

Are there any other options (other brands/styles etc) that offer more than 3/4" overlay?

anybody...?

[Steve Clardy]

Jeff. Face frame mount euro hinges stick out away from the cab face about an 1/8th. Thats why the stick on door bumpers are 1/8"