Review: NYW on DIY

[Rod Peterson]

Well, I DVRed the inaugural offering of The New Yankee Workshop on DIY
this morning (Jigs, Part One) and just finished watching it. I think
I'm going to be sick.

Most of you know that I've put a fair amount of time into chronicling
the tools Norm has used in 19 years of TNYW. That has entailed
watching (and timing) a lot of TNYW episodes (243, so far). I didn't
start video taping episodes until around 1999--ten years into the
show--so I had to rely on HGTV rebroadcasts for all of the early
years.

As I viewed all of the episodes I learned that while the original PBS
content totalled 24 minutes and 18 seconds (I'm not sure why the odd
number, but it's been consistent over roughly eight years of actual
PBS content that I have), HGTV edited their airings down to 21 minutes
and 45 seconds--also consistent over twelve years worth of
programming, or 156 episodes (all that HGTV ever aired). I had an
overlap of a few episodes in the late '90s for which I had both PBS
and HGTV versions and it was interesting to see what they cut out--it
wasn't a lot, mostly setups and an occasional orientation shot--but
generally not a lot of meat. Of course I can't really say how much had
been cut from the earlier years because I had no comparison
recordings.

This morning marked the return of supplemental (to PBS) airings of
TNYW since HGTV ended their contract several years ago. I eagerly
anticipated it, since I've been transferring all of my VHS recordings
over to DVD. Although the VCR tapes were done from fresh, SP
recordings of either original PBS broadcasts or HGTV broadcasts of the
earlier years, I had to re-record them in EP in order to get all 13
episodes of a season onto a single two hour tape. Consequently,
there's a lot of noise (and jitter, due to different VCR machines
involved) on my archive tapes. I was hoping to be able to get pristine
transfers from my DVR to the DVDs with the new DIY offering. Here's
what happened:

The DIY version (at least for this first program) totalled 19 minutes
and 43 seconds of content. That's 4½ minutes out of the original 24+
minutes. I don't think it possible to find enough non-critical
material to take out of a 24½ program to get to where DIY apprently
feels they need to be, but I thought I'd at least check against the
PBS version I have. So I pulled out my archive and watched. Quelle
horror! Sure, there were a couple of minor cuts that I noticed at
first, but after building the panel cutter, panel raising jig, and
circle cutting jig, they stopped. They cut out one of the items
entirely--the finger boards. I was shocked enough when I looked at my
stopwatch on the first viewing and saw 19:43, but as I viewed the
original and found one fourth of the projects missing I was simply
stunned.

I think I'm going to be sick. I know I said that already. I don't
think I can say it too much. If that's the standard to which DIY is
going to air TNYW episodes, I'll recommend you not bother to watch. In
order to make that number, there will simply have to be significant
content excised which will render the program virtually useless. And
I'm stuck with putting my noisy, jittery, EP recordings onto DVD. Or,
I can buy 200+ episodes from TNYW at $15 a pop...probably not.

What a disappointment.

[Fred Voorhees]

Sorry to hear this Rod, not just for your sake, but for mine also. This weekend is the first that I plan on beginning to tape his programs for archiving purposes. In fact, as I'n typing this, I have dvd rolling. As bad as that sounds about the cutting of content, I still am going to go through with it and see how it goes. Something is better than nothing and I'm sure that when Norm finally goes away from tv, I would have wished that I had taped whatever coverage there was.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for the info, Rod. It's disappointing that they went and cut so much out to add the commercialization, but I'm not surprised...even in the the programs they produce, there is a lot of Non-program time. In that case, the content just doesn't exist. But with NYW, ripping that much out is "sinful"... :(

[John Lucas]

Rod,
I feel your pain (I know, I hate that expression also.) Fact is, that is the difference between PBS and commercial. Maddening but fact of life. I was in video production since 1975 and I have made a lot of programs that were cut for one use and then we had to re-cut it for some other use. Sometimes that works; sometimes it doesnt.
Here is what will really hurt. This morning I just happened to watch the DIY showing of the program. It worked alright for me. What I didnt know until I read your comment, that one whole jig was left out. Bad, but not catastrophic. If you want castastrophic, wait until Norm is building one item (usual) and that gets cut down. My guess is that it will take away the finishing totally and then cut elsewhere regardless of what t does to the program content. Fortunately these days, the computer can make off-line edits for the producers rather than just having to start cutting at will.
It probably took then 30 to 40 hours for the initial cut. It can take more than that to re-cut it....and that is a truely thanklless task.

[Mike Langford]

I watched and taped (pausing for the stinkin' commercials) and it seems like you get 10 min. of NYW and 20 min. of commercials :mad: In fact DIY will even air a commercial during the show gloating about how they are now offering NYW!!!.......Since We already know they do (Duh) they could leave off that commercial and show more of Norm.........:confused:

I knew before they started they would chop it up -
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=53541

[Fred Floyd]

I recorded all the episodes before NYW went off HGTV. However, there are six or so where I didn't get the whole show or there was some interruption that destroyed the recording.

Most of the HGTV episodes are recorded in 6-hr mode on VHS and then transferred to my Hard Drive DVD Recorder for editing. All the commercials are out. The only downside is the recording quality. I was planning to upgrade the existing bad quality with the new. However, I am quite concerned that critical steps will be left out.

I will be recording all occurrances, but I'm not going to throw away the older ones.

If we get 19:45, that's better than David Marks episodes that weigh in at about 18 minutes.

DVD blanks are not expensive. Got 200 at Costco when they were on a "buy one get one free" coupon.

[Ben Abate]

Fellows,
I too watch Norm, and I have saved a few episodes. Nothing like you fellows have done. I have a question for you; I DVR them and just let them sit there. I would lke to put them onto a disc, could you guys recommend a DVD recorder that you feel is worth it's price. I don't spend much time with VCR's or any of these machines but would like to be able to save items that I record off the DVR. One more thing, is it as easy to record onto a DVD as it is to a tape???

Thanks
Ben

[Scott A. Reynolds]

Here's a copy of the Email I sent to the DIY network regarding this subject:



Thanks so much for chopping nearly 5 minutes off of the original episode of NYW you rebroadcast last night. I mean, how many commercials do you really think your viewers want to see? BTW, I'm going to go out of my way to not buy any products advertised on ANY DIY programs.
I also heard you did not renew David Marks woodworking show. Thats too bad and it's another reason to NOT watch your network.


I encourage you all to go to their web site and do the same.

[Randal Stevenson]

Over the air television is paid for by commercials, cable should have fewer, since your paying for TV.

Locally, channels that were once included, are now charging extra (quite a bit more, if shown in a public place), and I can see other channels moving to that format. I need my money for tools, not tv.
Then they complain about how much it costs to make a show, and cut the number of shows down (costs more, make less, more commercials, loose people due to more repeats, veiwer base goes down, costs yet more). Gonna get a lot more use out of places like this board, internet, and the public library. Much better value.

Now I bet they market it, with "get extra content, on the dvd/video".

Or, they didn't cut the show down, they just ran out of brads to hold the show together, while the glue dries;)

[Jim Becker]

Or, they didn't cut the show down, they just ran out of brads to hold the show together, while the glue dries

That was evil...very evil... :p

[Mike Heidrick]

Fellows,
I too watch Norm, and I have saved a few episodes. Nothing like you fellows have done. I have a question for you; I DVR them and just let them sit there. I would lke to put them onto a disc, could you guys recommend a DVD recorder that you feel is worth it's price. I don't spend much time with VCR's or any of these machines but would like to be able to save items that I record off the DVR. One more thing, is it as easy to record onto a DVD as it is to a tape???

Thanks
Ben

I do not have much of a requirement to burn tons of things to DVD that are super fancy. I do it for my WW shows to watch them in the shop and the occasional VHS home video.

I bought a cheapy $50 DVD burner around Thanksgiving last year and it works great.
You put in a disc, select DVD record, select the speed you want, and the input you want, start the playing (on tivo in my case) and start the recording. That is it.

The setup of the machine is where I set how many minutes I want between chapters on the DVD. This I have set to 5 minutes.

When the recording is done, I hit stop. After that I can go into the edit menu and change the title from the default name of title01 to whatever I want. After that I finalize it.

I know there are tons of burners out there but my recorder (which is DVD+R btw) does what I need it to do. My home DVD plarers can all play DVD+R discs.

I believe DVD-R recorders are more expensive.

[Rod Peterson]

Fellows,
I would lke to put them onto a disc, could you guys recommend a DVD recorder that you feel is worth it's price. I don't spend much time with VCR's or any of these machines but would like to be able to save items that I record off the DVR. One more thing, is it as easy to record onto a DVD as it is to a tape???


If anything, it's easier. About two weeks ago I bought a Pye DVD recorder at Circuit City for $79. I'd never heard of the name but I figured for $79 even if I only made a few recordings it would be worth it. Wow! is all I can say. It will record on +, -, R, and RW. The very first disc I burned I tested on both my Sony and my Samsung changers and they played just fine. That was my main concern.

I was also surprised at how cheap blank DVDs are. I'm sure there's a quality vs price tradeoff somewhere, but I haven't discovered it yet. I've been using TDK disks at about a buck a pop. They come with a nice little DVD style jewel case, too. To show how really anal I am about my production, I made a graphic to act as a cover for my NYW DVDs (I hope it shows in this post) I edit the Season #, Year, and Episodes x-xx appropriate to the disk onto the graphic and print it on photo paper. Looks really cool when slipped into the case.

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Rod. Good to see you checking in over here at the creek.:)

It is good to know that we are paying our cable/satellite bill to get 10+ minutes of commercials for a half hour broadcast. What a crock.:mad:

The sad thing is that 20:10 ratio applies to a lot if not most programs. That works out to for every 2 minutes of program, there is 1 minute of advertising. We get to listen to "Home owners would you like....", and other gems like "This is Bob...." At least the caveman and gecko ads are entertaining.

One can only conclude that the broadcast industry is run for the advertisers and not the consumer.

[Laurie Brown]

I envy all you guys that have any old episodes recorded on any media. I just got into woodworking not that long ago, so until recently had no interest in recording the show, which is a shame. A few weeks ago I built my own DVR out of an old PC I had sitting around the house, using free software off the internet, and I can now record digitally anything I want for free with no monthly fee. However, DIY is not even available here, so my only source for NYW is PBS, which has decided to not even air it at all al lthis month! So I got to record part 1 of Table Saw 101 and now I have to wait a month and HOPE they show part 2 when it comes back.

The PC I use as my DVR doesn't have a DVD burner, but it does have wireless network access, so whatever I want to keep I transfer by the network to my laptop, which has a DVD burner and video editing software that lets me get rid of commercials, edit as I like, add multiple episodes, set up the DVD menu, and burn it. I do use DVD+Rs, as most of my players will read them.

So, all I need now is some NYW to record!!!

[Laurie Brown]

One can only conclude that the broadcast industry is run for the advertisers and not the consumer.

Well, of COURSE it is! That's how the broadcast industry makes its money. But the point of the commercials from the standpoint of the advertisers is to get people to watch them, and if the show is chopped up and has too many commercials, people won't watch. So they have to try to find the right balance.

I've been recording my favorite show off Food Network, Good Eats. The 30-minute episode minus commercials usually ends up being somewhere around 20 minutes, so 1/3 commercials.

[Ellen Benkin]

I have been discouraged by PBS for two reasons.

Every time I find something I want to watch regularly like the block of NYW and TOH and ASK TOH, and set my tape (yes, tape) to record it, all the local PBS stations go into begging mode. Much as I love Suze Orman, how much can I watch in one week? By the time the "regular" programs come back, I've lost all track of them.

The second problem is the commercials. Yes, PBS has commercials. They play them at the beginning and end of each show so the shows are not interrupted, but they are also not even close to the full allotted time. And if PBS is going to have sponsors, why do they need to beg for my money?

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Well that's a bummer. I moved my old DVR into the office just so I could record all the NYW episodes from PBS and DIY and archive them on DVD. I'm still going to record them, but it's sad that they'll be missing almost five minutes of footage.

-----

Hmm. Just thought of something and ran the numbers...

The newyankee.com site has 229 projects for sale. 16 are two-part projects and cost $39.95 for a video and measured drawing. 213 are one-part projects and cost $24.95 for a video and measured drawing.

Wow, that $5953.55. Let's say, for the sake of argument, they offered a video without a measured drawing and decreased the price by $15.95 (the price of a measured drawing only), that's still $2301.00.

Let's also say, for the sake of argument, that most DVD sets of a single TV season are $50.00. If they decided to offer DVD boxed sets without measured drawings and priced them similarly to other TV series, they'd make $50.00 per season, and at 19 seasons, that's $950. And they'd still make $15.95 per measured drawing on top of that.

I'd be willing to buy DVD boxed sets and pick up the measured drawings as needed. I wonder why they haven't gone this route.

-----

Paul

[Jerry McCaffrey]

I, like Paul, have wondered why Mr. Morash has not explored this marketing model. I watch Norm for his technique and ideas, which I hope to transfer to my own projects, not do rote copies of his. The per program cost of buying each program, makes taping them off PBS the only option. For a resonable price of $20-$50 per season, it would be worth not going through the taping hassle. For about $500, I'd love to have all the past Norm seasons archived on DVD's. After viewing them, I might be interested in buying plans of older shows that I have not seen, even at a higher per plan price. It seems like getting the older shows out there to the woodworking audience for a fair price, might stimulate more interest in the plans and certainly please us Norm fans.

[Laurie Brown]

Well, NYW returned to our PBS station today, and guess what? NO part 2 of Table Saw 101!!! Nesting tables? Who cares? Grrrr!!! No idea when they will air the part 2 to go with part 1 now.

[Dave Falkenstein]

This thread got me to look at the schedule of NYW on DIY. The episodes that are showing now were all recorded originally in 2001! Of course they don't go out of style, but DIY is apparently ther NYW rerun network. I'm sure I have seen all of those old episodes at least several times. Oh well.

[Alan Schaffter]

Well I used to tape NYW every week, then started missing a few, then missed a whole season. But you know, like Norm, my WW has improved over the years. Except for some of his new, more technically challenging, stuff, I don't need his video or plans anymore. When I look back at the some of his early projects, they are fairly basic, and Norm (over) used his pnuematic nailer. I now question some of his older methods and if I did build some of those projects I would likely build them differently.

So bottom line, DIY edited versions are better than nothing. What gets me is PBS pledge "month" right in the middle of the season, especially when they extend it an extra week.

By the way, does anyone have a library that carries NYW videos and plans?