Sawstop electrical problem...

[David Wambolt]

I decided today would be a nice day to wrap up getting my Sawstop 5hp saw installed. I picked up 20' of 10/3 SJ cord from Lowe's on the way home from work last night. I have a 30amp, 10/2 Circuit with an L6-30 recepticle. So I installed the cord with ring terminals at the saw and put an L6-30P plug on the other end. I plugged it in, turn on the disconnect and flipped on the power switch. The LED's flashed a bit and then came up solid green.

So I was thinking I was in the clear. Then I pulled the paddle switch and the blade turns fairly slowly, dimming the lights. I tried it several times without having the saw come up to full speed. Once the motor just kicked off and the LEDS were flashing. The blade spins easily, so nothing is binding up.

I checked all of the wiring and it looks good. I used the same circuit to run a 2hp milling machine without any issues at all. Total run is no more than 35 feet with the cord on the saw. Anyone have any ideas? Bad starting capacitor?

[Calvin Crutchfield]

Do you experience the same behavior if you put a different brake cartidge in? Either a spare 10" or a dado with 8" blade?

When I had a bad cartridge I would get a green light and the saw would spin only briefly then stop. Also, my lights were flashing alternating arythmically.

Does the bypass mode work?

[Bob Michaels]

Do you need all 20' of the SJ cord ? That may be pushing the limits in some cases.

[David Wambolt]

I don't need 20', but I do need 15'+. I figured with my circuit run being so short from the panel to the outlet that it wouldn't be a problem. The saw draws under 20A, but I figured it should at least power it up and 'bog' down if anything. Whether it's 10GA in the wall or in the power cord, it's still 10GA. 35 total wire feet is a pretty short run for 220V. :confused:

I spent a bit more time checking things over. Using my DVOM I measured 251V between the two hot terminals at the saw. I replaced the blade brake with a spare I had and also installed a Forrest Woodworker II blade while I was in there. The results were a slow running saw that tripped the breaker in about 4 seconds. I have seen mention of capacitor problems on the 5hp models and I have a feeling that's what my problem is. I have already emailed Sawstop requesting assistance and I'm sure they'll have a solution for me on Monday, be it parts or a slap across the forehead.

I certainly was hoping for a better start with the saw, but I guess my saw truely is a SawSTOP. You can't get any safer in the shop when the machine doesn't run. :D

[Roy Wall]

Dave,

Your cord is plenty....10/3...you're good.

I suspect it is the capacitor... maybe one last thing is that the brake is more than a "nickels width" away from the blade...allowing it to start but not getting up to speed.

You'll hear from SS by the morning.........I predict.

[Gary Benson]

I had the same problem the first day of my 5HP's life. Bad starting capacitor. Sawstop sent one overnight, problem solved. Check with them ASAP.

[Ken Milhinch]

Does this suggest they don't test these machines before they leave the factory ? Surely a simple run test would have picked this up.

[Don Bullock]

Does this suggest they don't test these machines before they leave the factory ? Surely a simple run test would have picked this up.

I wonder that too and I'm planning to buy one this month. Now I'll make sure that it is tested before it leaves the store. They are uncrating it, placing it on a stand, and checking all the specifications before it's delivered.

[Gary Benson]

Mine worked fine for several cuts before I had a problem. I doubt a test would have detected this issue. Their supplier of the motors appears to have the problem. Sawstop was still great to work with.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks....I dont' own a Sawstop so I don't have any reason to defend them. In this day and age, all manufacturers will occassionaly get a bad batch of parts from a supplier. I'm betting that SS will handle the problem with most haste!

[Ben Rafael]

I've had similar problems with motors in the past, usually a bad cap, sometimes the motor has other issues such as being wired incorrectly, if it smokes then it is definitely wired wrong.
If your motor isn't running correctly a few secs after startup switch it off immediately, a minor problem can destroy the motor completely if you let the motor run too long.

[David Wambolt]

Sawstop is sending me a new start and run capacitor overnight since they don't want to take any chances. I should have it tomorrow and I'll advise. Again, they were a pleasure to work with and stand behind their product without question. Hopefully I'll hear that sweet whistling sound soon.

[Don Bullock]

... Hopefully I'll hear that sweet whistling sound soon.

I hope you do too. Thanks for all the information. Keep us posted.

[David Wambolt]

I received the replacement start and run capacitors today. I figured I'd swap the start capacitor first and see how things went. Replacing the capacitor without removing the motor was a real pain. The wires were very short, the screws were torqued in tight with cheap metal (the kind of screws that strip VERY easily), and you have to work upside down basically.

It took me about an hour to swap the capacitor after much cursing and frustration. I figured it for an easy job, but I'm not the most limber guy around, so getting myself in there and twisted around wasn't easy.

Long story short, the saw runs great. It passed the nickle and penny tests with flying colors. I did email a long letter to Sawstop about my concerns. Many of you may have seen me 'tooting' Sawstop's horn. I have used a Sawstop previously and was very impressed with the machine. However my particular unit had three issues. Bent fence rails, chipped extension table, and the bad start capacitor. It never powered up from my very first attempt. Now don't get me wrong, Sawstop took care of every problem very quickly, but I would have never expected these issues at this price point or at least straight out of the gate. I will have to hold back my overwhelmingly possitive comments about Sawstop for the time being. I have lost confidence in the saw due to these issues and it will take time before I can be comfortable in recommending this piece of equipment.

I understand I'm one of the exceptions and not the rule, but still I'm just an average joe who plunked down a lot of cash only to experience some serious issues. I hope the saw gives me many years of good service and it is no doubt a well built machine. I just wish it worked out of the box. The main reason I didn't buy the PM2000 was due to it's teething issues, and to my dismay the big bad boy on the block was the one headed to the dentist.

It just makes you think. Sawstop support is TOP NOTCH though. I just tell it as I see it.

[Don Bullock]

David, I appreciate your sharing your experience with us and your honesty. It is good information for us to know.

I'm planning to plunk down the same bit of cash for a SawStop next month and will keep your experience in mind. My supplier will be put on notice that I will not change the start capacitor or perform any other repairs on a new saw and he better make sure that it will work when I get it home if he doesn't want it returned. Sure, SawStop sent you the part. To me that's the very least they should do. I guess my definition of "top notch" in this situation is different from yours. In my opinion you should had a technition or repair person on your doorstep within days of your purchase. That would have been "TOP NOTCH."

[David Wambolt]

Don,

That's true. I guess I'm so used to dealing with issues from online purchases and such that I in many ways have detached myself from personalized service. I informed Sawstop via my letter that had I powered this unit up in the first month of ownership and found these problems, I would have returned it to my local distributor. The problem is that I purchased it about 10 weeks ago and over the past couple of weeks got it assembled and ready for use.

I guess TOP NOTCH wasn't the right word. Perhaps RESPONSIVE would be a better term to describe the support I received. I was stern in my letter to them in that I don't particularly like fixing these problems right out of the gate. The rails were one thing, but tearing into the saw itself is another. They also made the assumption I knew how to make the repair, which in my case I'm quite mechanically inclined, but many would not be so comfortable in this situation.

If I was to make a choice on a saw today, I'd buy the PM2000 without hesitation. The brake is a great safety feature, but some of my reasons for spending the extra money were diluted by the problems I experienced. I believe the way you are approaching your purchase is the right way.

[Don Bullock]

Thanks. I wish you the best with your saw now that it is working correctly. Hopefully it will meet all your expectations, except for the engagement of the brake due to an accident.

For me, the PM2000 isn't option. I want the SawStop for the fact that it is a great saw and because the safety features are like an insurance policy that I hope I never use. My wife fully agrees and has graciously concented to the expenditure. She's also aware of the great frustration I have trying to use my present saw. While my '70s era Craftsman was a good saw in its time, I need something better to do the type of work I want to do. Without the safety features I could not justify purchasing a table saw. With the information that you and others have provided, I can go into this purchase much better prepared than I would have been without the extra input.

BTW -- I can understand the delay in setting up the saw. I'm facing the same thing with my Steel City mortiser. I haven't finished the "mobile base" for it so it's still in the box. I've now had it a month. The earliest it will be on the base is the middle of next week.

[David Wambolt]

Good luck to you Don. I'll be happy with the Sawstop over the long run, I'm sure. I'm happy with it now - it's not the saws fault it had a few bad parts. I just have to get over this bump in the road. It runs so smooth, I don't think you'll be disappointed. It certainly sounds like a power house. I didn't run any wood through the blade though since I don't have my dust collection system up and running yet. Now I can get my Exaktor sliding table installed and call it good. I'll report back after making some cuts.

[Tim Donovan]

Hey Guys
Bent rails and a chipped extension rails sound like shipping damage to me, and NOT something to give SawStop grief about. The bad capacitator...they probably know they got a bad batch and are shipping out the fixes as fast as possible, as soon as they are notified. I really don't know what you are so crabby about. Yeah its $4K...but even if it was $10K SawStop cannot control shipping damage. Sheesh. This is coming from a guy who is awaiting delivery (Monday Whoo HOOO) on a new PM2000. If there is damage, I just hope WMH Corps CS is as good as you have recieved.

By the way, they probably just pull a few saws off the line for any given production week and test them. I really doubt they fire up every saw.

Regards
Tim

[John Lucas]

Hey Guys
Bent rails and a chipped extension rails sound like shipping damage to me, and NOT something to give SawStop grief about. The bad capacitator...they probably know they got a bad batch and are shipping out the fixes as fast as possible, as soon as they are notified. I really don't know what you are so crabby about. Yeah its $4K...but even if it was $10K SawStop cannot control shipping damage. Sheesh. This is coming from a guy who is awaiting delivery (Monday Whoo HOOO) on a new PM2000. If there is damage, I just hope WMH Corps CS is as good as you have recieved.

By the way, they probably just pull a few saws off the line for any given production week and test them. I really doubt they fire up every saw.

Regards
Tim

I don't know quite why you are defending SS. I didnt think Dave was too harsh or negative about SS. Shipping damages are always the responisbility of the manufacturer in my book. They packed and shipped it.
I do buy from a dealer for that reason. They setup and run the machine in my shop. If it doesnt work, they fix it. To say that SS isnt responsible for hte capacity utter non-sense. They are responsible for every part of the product. Maybe they got a bad batch of capacitors. It sounds like other SS owners had a similar problem. So SS was "top notch" for sending out the replacement so quickly. The capacitor should have been sent as soon as they had the problem reported and before Dave's delivery.
And what about product liability. Now that it is "working" what if Dave has an accident and the SS mechanism doesnt halt the blade. Did Dave void the warantee by making the capacitor change? It isnt a yes or no question. It would be solved in court and could go either way.

[Jim Dunn]

Wow John you get up early:) As a manufacturers rep. for an electrical motor system we see these thing all the time. Bad capacitors, heck some of the motors don't run right out of the box. We/they blame the motor manufacturers. They are about the largest best known name in the industry, but shipped a bunch of their manufacturering procedures south of the border.

I agree with John that the rails were questionably packed before shipping. I especially think his concerns about the warrantee is valid. I'd detail everything I did to the saw and SAVE the old parts, forever.

[Glen Blanchard]

I don't know quite why you are defending SS. I didnt think Dave was too harsh or negative about SS.

I have to agree with John here. I don't think Dave was bashing SS at all. I am a very happy SS owner, but would be...disgruntled shall we say...had I had the same experience as Dave. I think he has been patient and fair in his statements.

Dave - I suspect you will soon become delighted with your purchase. I think you need a bit of time for the initial bitterness of the situation to dissipate. I think a few crosscuts and a few rips from now and your unfortunate beginning with this saw will be ancient history. I wish you all the best with that beast.

[David Wambolt]

Thanks guys. Everyone is welcome to their opinion on the subject and quite honestly everyone would handle the situation in their own unique way. I believe I have been very flexible and understanding, but the frustration mounted while changing that capacitor. For a home shop guy, I own a decent amount of equipment. Some of top of the line, some of mid-level, and some is entry level. Until the Sawstop, I've never had a problem with any of them out of the gate. I would call the Sawstop my crown jewel of wood working equipment, because quite honestly I work with metal more than wood.

Tim mentioned WMH support and I can say from owning a Wilton machine, their support is very good. I had a rattle in a disc/belt sanding machine I purchased and they sent a tech out to repair the problem at my home, no questions asked. Also mentioned were the bent rails, but I can confidently say they were not damaged in shipping. It seemed to just be a bad rail that was malformed either before or after machining, prior to packaging. Take it for what it's worth, but there was no visable damage on the rail to indicate it was damaged in shipping.

With time I'm sure I'll be delighted with the purchase, but as of today it's just a bit of a sore spot with me. If anyone doubhts my feelings about Sawstop, I recently posted a thread about how happy I was with their customer service. I'm a fair person and I'm only sharing my experience. Take it for what it's worth and don't let it sway you either way. My only real concern is that us 5hp owners seem to have similar issues and I have to believe that the users of this forum represent a very small portion of Sawstop owners.