Kitchen cabinets ?

[Al Willits]

Continuing on my learing curve, I am getting close to starting the kitchen cabinets and noticed the ones in our kitchen are using 1/2" plywood for the case, walked over to the neighbors and his are too.
My woodworking class is using 3/4" and most of the books I read seem to list the case in 3/4".

I'm finding 1/2" white oak plywood is a bit hard to find and seems to be a special order thing, costing as much or more than the in stock 3/4".

So...just wondering what most you use, Beasty also asked if 3/4" will be a bit heavy to hang off a wall?
tia

Al......who needs to find a cabinetmaker and marry his daughter

[frank shic]

3/4" is what i used for my kitchen cabinets. hang them correctly and they should not fall off the walls!

[Larry Fox]

I am with frank. I used 3/4 and installed blocking into the wall and they are not going anywhere.

[Von Bickley]

All the kitchen cabinets I have seen built is 3/4". :) :) :)

[Al Willits]

Thanks guys, considering both our neighbors house and ours are what most consider starter homes I could see why they're 1/2".
3/4" it is....

Al

[Joe Chritz]

Both sizes are used extensively for kitchen cabs.

Mine are 3/4 because I got a killer deal on maple/birch faced ply when I was building them.

The last two I have done were with 1/2". I have read of shops using all 5/8" so they only stock one size. If you are using a face frame it really makes no difference. Euro cabs are almost always 3/4" as the edge looks small at 1/2".

Advantages of 1/2" is it is a lot easier to handle. I have no doubt that 3/4 is stronger than 1/2 but 1/2 is way stronger than needed.

My next kitchen project (soon I hope) is going to be all 1/2" uppers, backs included. Something to think about as a 1/2" back set into a dado gives you a scribe to the wall and easy hanging.

Don't worry about them falling off. A properly secured hanging rail or 1/2 back with really cabinet hanging screws and they won't ever go anywhere.

Enjoy, a full kitchen is a huge project but very rewarding once completed.

Joe

[Al Willits]

Thanks Joe, won't be faceless cabinets, to old fashioned here..:)
Biggest problem I think (other than not having a clue) is I don't have a good list of sources for lumber, especially plywood, so I end up working with what I can, Younbloods(local lumberyard) can get the 1/2" but they say because its special order its as much as 3/4".
But I'll keep looking.

I have the white oak for the face frame already and 1/4" plywood is available, its the 1/2" that's causing the problem..the search continues.

What are cabinet hanging screws????

Geeze I hate being a newbie....:)


Al

[Fred Haydon]

I've been building and hanging cabinets of all styles for close to ten years now and the best advice I ever got was to build the base cab carcasses out of 3/4" ply and the wall cab carcasses out of 1/2" ply. The 3/4" ply works great for supporting the weight of even the heaviest of countertops. But who needs that kind of bulk and weight when hanging wall cabs. Constructed properly, wall cabs will feel and be as solid as base cabs, but they'll cost less to build and save your back when your trying to hang them.

Just my two cents...

Fred

[frank shic]

cabinet hanging screws are used to screw the cabinet to the wall. there are a couple of approaches. first you can make the back of the cabinet 3/4" thick which will give you more than enough "meat" to screw to the wall stud with the cabinet hanging screws. the next option is to put a nailer (appsroximately 2-4" wide 3/4" plywood or hardwood scrap) either in front or behind the back through which you screw through the nailer into the stud. another option is to use what's called a "french cleat" or suspension hangers which basically grab on to another rail that you would have to mount behind the cabinets. since this is your first time, i would recommend either using a full 3/4" back or a nailer at the top and the bottom of the cabinet and get the cabinet hanging screws from mcfeelys.com

BTW al, we all started somewhere!!! in another year, you'll be answering the questions.

[Larry Fox]

Al, definitely not an expert and have only done one set (thread below) but the method I used was to install a hanging cleat on the inside top and bottom of the wall cabinet and use the screws that Frank shows in his post above. I put two or three (depending on the width) through the top cleat and the same number in the bottom into the blocking that I installed when I had the walls out. If you don't take the rock out you will need to find and mark the studs.

Those screws are STOUT and I feel certain that my wall cabinets aren't going anywhere.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=50336

As I said, I am not an expert but a PM will get you any help that I may be able to provide.

[Al Willits]

Fred, makes good sense, we're gonna use granite squares on the base cabinets and I'd think 3/4" would be what to use, also the tile place advised that flex in the cabinet is not what you want with granite.

Thanks for the info on cabinet screws I'll order a bunch, they come in different lenghts I bet...:)

Frank, I've been practicing with french cleats out in the garage and actually feel pretty comfortable in using them, maybe hang them on one cleat along the top and screw the bottoms to the wall???

Larry, I'll check your post out, thanks.

Man...there's a lot to learn...:D

[frank shic]

al, french cleats or suspension hanging brackets are the way to go if you value your back and don't want to be fumbling around for the screw gun while you frantically try to hold the run up with one hand like i did last year! don't forget that you'll need to end the french cleat short on the wall side to accomodate the finished end panel on exposed ends. and yes, screw the bottom to the stud to keep the cabinet from moving but don't overdrive the screw if you're using 1/4" or 3/8" material for the backs.

i thought you said you were a newbie ;)

[Joe Chritz]

A french cleat is a great way to hang cabs. There are posts on modified cleats to keep the cabs from riding out on uneven walls. By making the cleat a little short you can slide the cab sideways to line things up.

I am not convinced it is any "better" than a hanging rail and screws but it is a lot easier to plumb and level if you don't have to hold the cab up while doing it.

If you will be doing the install with limited help a french cleat would be a help.

1/2" will support granite tops but if I had limited supply and the cost was the same I would use 3/4" for the bases as well.

Joe

[Caleb Dietrich]

Hello,

I work in a 2 person cabinet shop. All the custom cabinets we make are made using 3/4 material. We dado in a 1/4 plywood back, leaving a 1/4" of "meat" behind it. Finished ends are left 1/4" wider in order to be scribed into place, leaving a 1/2" of "meat" behind the 1/4" panel.
Upper Cabinets have solid tops with a 3" wide nailer fastened across the top/back of the cabinet. Lower cabinets have a 3" wide front and rear stretchers. The rear has a 3" wide nailer fastened perpendicular to it, creating an L-shaped beam across the top/back of those cabinets. The 1/4" backs are dropped down into the dado, behind the nailers, and fastened.
As far as 1/2 as opposed to 3/4, I think both would support your counter tops. 3/4 will be easier to work with--screw, pocket screw ect...We also sell semi-custom and that is all 1/2" -1/4." It supports granite.

I haven't worked with the rail system of hanging cabinets, but I can imagine it would be a little tricky to work the finished ends.

Hope this helps.

[Dave Avery]

Al,

Consider buying thr cabinets from IKEA and making your own drawer and door fronts. The materials and hardware, particularly if you're going to use a lot of drawers or do pull-out pantries, will cost you as much as buying the ready-to-assemble Ikea cabinets. Quality is excellent (for the carcases). Each cabinet takes less than 15 minutes to assemble and is dead-nuts square. Don't live near Ikea? They periodically run "free" shipping promo's. Just an alternative idea. Best. Dave.

[Brook Wright]

Al,

I am a custom cabinet maker in St. Paul. We use 3/4 ply for all of our boxes and 1/2 backs. We screw everything directly to the framing and use plenty of screws. If you are having trouble finding 1/2 white oak ply with Youngblood, try Metro Hardwoods or St. Croix Lumber. We use all three for plywood. For our boxes we use prefinished birch ply, this really saves time on finishing. Good luck.

[Al Willits]

"""""""""""
i thought you said you were a newbie ;)
""""""""""""
Fist major woodworking tool was bought last year, up until then everything I did was with metal...but hoping to graduate to the next level soon....:D

!/2" or 3/4" probably isn't gonna make a lot of difference considering the whole picture, but it was suggested as it might be easier for me to move around by myself, looks like I could go either way and not make much difference though.

I've sent a few emails out to other lumber yards and will check Metro and St Croix, thanks.

Dave I can look out my window and almost see a IKEA...well its about 2 miles from us, but I'd like to do this project as much as I can, good idea and probably a better way to go, but I want to build them myself, thanks though.

I just finished my last class on cabinetmaking and we did drawers and doors, just figured out that there are much better ways to hinge a door then what I've been doing....and I was using not exactly the right hinge, more of that learning curve, anyway we talked about french cleats and they had several tips on how to use and install them, looks like its gonna work for me.

Seems each new project brings up a whole new bunch of questions and some I find the anwser by myself, many you all help with.

Frank I really hope in a year I can anwser questions, this forum has helped me a lot and I'd like to repay that someday.

Thanks all......again.

Al