Shoulder Plane Question

[Rob Luter]

Quick Question from a newbie of sorts. I'm getting back in to woodworking after a 30 year hiatus and accumulating a few essential hand tools. My projects include a concentration in Arts and Crafts themed furniture, frames, etc. (Lots of mortise and tenon joinery). Cleaning up tenon shoulders and cheeks with a chisel has been hit and miss and from what I can tell, a shoulder plane is the right tool for the job.
I've boiled it down to either a Veritas medium or Veritas large shoulder plane from LV. I suspect that the medium will take care of everything I currently need, but am unsure if I'll ever need anything larger in the future. Ordinarily I'd buy the larger version in anticipation of needing the extra width capacity in the future (and the removable nose feature), but am concerned about what concessions I might have to make when planing smaller workpieces.

Any input from those more experienced than I would be most welcome.

- Rob

[Don Bullock]

Great question. I'll be looking for the replies.

Welcome back to the hobby. I thought I had been away from it a long time (over 20 years). You'll find great advice, super suport and some very friendly people here at the "Creek." I can't believe how much I've learned in the short time I've been here. Like you, I'm interested in creating various styles of Arts and Crafts furniture etc. I'm especially drawn to the work of Green and Green.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Rob, welcome to the creek. I am sure someone more experienced will chime in soon. I am also interested in the replies to this question.

[Ken Werner]

Hi Rob,
Welcome to the creek. Please feel free to ask any question you like here.
I have a Veritas Medium shoulder plane, and really love it. I haven't tried the large. The medium does what I need it to do very well, including cleaning up tenons, rabbets, and shoulders. The quality is tops.
Good luck.
Ken

[Rick Schubert]

I would second everything Ken said about the LV medium shoulder plane. Rick

[Warren Allen]

Hi,

I ended up with a large Lie-Nielsen shoulder plane. I got it as I was doing a lot of quick lap joints with a crummy dado blade and it was perfect to clean those up.

I thought it would be too bulky for smal work and got the small LV bullnose (not exactly a shoulder plane). This proved to be tougher to use. The mass of the larger plane makes for smoother cuts. With practice, and I have a ways to go, I've been able to do some delicate work with the large shoulder plane.

For me a shoulder plane is so much a matter of feel. I have owned several and now just the large one. If you have the opportunity see if you can spend a few minutes with each.

Nice thing in this day and age though. LN and possibly LV have 30 day trial periods and if not the quality of the tools makes resale feasible. Most tools by the makers yeilds about 90-100% of purchase price if not more! With this in mind the medium LV is on my short list of planes to buy. I like the idea it's only 11/16" wide and perfect for cleaning up dados.

HTH

WarrenA

[Mike Henderson]

Welcome to the Creek, Rob. I agree with the advice to get the LV medium shoulder plane. If, in the future, you find you need something larger consider the LN rabbet block plane instead of a larger shoulder plane.

I have the Record 073 (which I think is the same size as the LN large shoulder plane), and the LN rabbet block plane. When I need to trim the cheek of a tenon, I reach for the rabbet plane, not the shoulder plane.

Mike

[Joe Meazle]

I have the LV med. shoulder plane. I think it is a good place to start. It is heavy for its size. It makes short work for thinning cheeks and cleaning shoulders. The way I work I would not want a bigger heavier plane to clean the shoulders that I cut YMMV. The LV med is comfortable for me to use and is sized so it cleans up 3/4" dados very well. I have no experience with any other shoulder plane so I can make no comparisons.
Joe

[Greg Cole]

Happy owner of a LV medium here. I bought mine initially for tenon clean up... can't say enough good things about it. If you've ever used a chisel for this task, you will not look back. I have a couple Sorbys for paring and gentle clean ups of joints, but I don't grab them for tenon work anymore.
Not sure who mentioned it, but I will agree that the next step for me is a rabbeting block plane for larger "stuff". I somewhat lament not having bought the rabbeting block instead of the LN 9 1/2, the LN 60 1/2 will have to be pried from dead cold fingers.
As many will say, there is no such thing as too many planes. Once you buy one, make room for more!
And to think, the purchase of a Delta mortise jig started all this for me anyway.....
$0.02 for nadda.

Happy shavings & saw dust this weekend.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Shoulder planes do this job quite nicely, but there are also at least a couple of other ways. Have you tried using your chisel(s) bevel down, which helps you control grain gouging? Have you tried using rasps and/or files?

Another plane that some recommend for this is a router plane. I don't like this because it takes too long to set up and use, but it's very precise.

But what works best is getting to a more precise use of chisels and saws, to say nothing of marking gauges. First, set your mortising gauge to the thickness of the chisel, directly, mark your mortise. Then chop the mortise with that chisel, no side or end trimming after the chopping. Then, using the previous setting, use your mortising gauge to mark the tenon. Then saw the tenon just barely to the waste side of the line, sort of kiss the line gently. Using this method, with some practice, your tenons should fit your mortises perfectly on first try.

Pam

[James Mittlefehldt]

For what it's worth I once asked one of the people at the local Lee Valley store if they could only buy one which shoulder plane would he select. He did not hesitate for a second and said firmly the Medium one as it would be the most versatile, for large or small jobs.

Take from that what you will and welcome to Sawmill Creek.

[Caleb Dietrich]

Hello Rob,

The LV medium shoulder plane is an excellent tool. It's very versitile. I agree that a LN rabbet block plane would be an ideal compliment. With those two you could work a longer tenon with the block plane and the shoulder with the LV on its side.

[Hans Braul]

I'll chime in and ditto the vote for LV medium. I love mine.

Welcome to the Creek!

Hans

[Rob Luter]

Thanks for all the great feedback. I pulled the trigger on a LV Medium yesterday and am looking forward to the brown truck dropping it off next week. The rabbet block will likely be next.

30 years ago I had access to a 36" wide power planer, a huge jointer, and other basically commercial grade power tools. The hand planes were basically relics that sat in the tool cabinet untouched. I guess I never realized how useful they were until recently. Now that I'm getting back into the hobby my personal shop is shall we say, "more modestly equipped" than the previous shop I used and I'm more dependant on hand tools.

I'm a tool junkie by nature I agree with Greg's comment on never having enough planes. For me it started when I picked up an old British Stanley G12-205 Bench Plane for $10 at an antique shop and brought it back to life. Under all the filth it was basically mint. Once I got it cleaned, lapped, tuned up, and sharpened properly I got an idea how a plane should really work. I've used it for any number of jobs around the house and in the shop. The more I learn however, the more I recognize the shortcomings with respect to alignment, adjustment, blade flex, etc. It will probably be replaced with a Veritas or LN after the rabbit block plane aquisition. I have a 20 year old small low angle block plane that's the same way. It's a Stanley knockoff that works ok when you get it tweaked just right, but the good times don't last very long.

Again - Many thanks to all for the feedback and the warm welcome. I'm sure you'll see me around the forum frequently in the future.

- Rob

[Mike Henderson]

One added comment, Rob, about the rabbet block plane. Some people advocate using it like a regular low angle block plane - that is, not buying a 60 1/2 and using the rabbet block plane where you'd use the 60 1/2. My experience is that the rabbet block plane doesn't work as well as a regular block plane when you don't need to plane into the corner.

One is that the rabbet block is a bit harder to adjust. Second, if you're not careful, you can nick things because of the blade sticking out the side just a bit. And one of the things you can nick is yourself.

Anyway, that's my experience. I bought the rabbet block plane first but later decided to also get the LN low angle. Your mileage may vary.

Mike

[Rob Luter]

Thanks for the tip. As it worked out, I found a Stanley 60 1/2 at an antique mall this morning. It's an older USA made version but is basically brand new. I lapped the sole and honed the iron then tried it out on the end grain of some chunks of white oak I had laying around. Seems to work real well. I've still got to get the relationship between depth of cut and throat clearance dialed in but I'll get there. I know there's better stuff out there but it was inexpensive.

[Rob Luter]

Well the Veritas medium is working out just fine. A light honing and a few minutes of tune up and I'm shaving end grain pretty cleanly. I love good tools :D

[Scot Ferraro]

Congrats on the plane. I have the large version and it is awesome!! I actually want to buy the medioum version for cleaning up the dados, etc... as the large one is a bit too wide. However, for powering through end grain or cleaning up larger tenons, the large one works great.

Scot

[Andrew Williams]

I actually took a picture of the plane in hand last year while doing a how-to series of pics. Medium in this case is still rather large. I imagine the large version is pretty huge.

On another note, as far as tenon shoulder cuts, I decided to "cheat", and made a little 90 degree miter box for my 21 ppi crosscut gent's saw. Works like a charm :)

[Greg Cole]

Rob,
Try wetting the end grain just a wee bit too.... I always use water. Just gives me one more reason to make darn sure I wipe down any cast iron or steel before I put'em up for the day-night.
There is another option to water, but I forget if it's alcohol, paint thinner or something like that.. .I am sure someone here will finish this though as that brain cell seems to be taking a nap on me right now.

Greg

[David Weaver]

I'm a relative beginner to woodworking and have the LN large shoulder plane. I think that it's fine anything where you doing need to get right up to something where you'd need a bullnose plane. I don't use it and feel like it's too large for anything, and actually prefer the heft. It makes nice shavings, is dead knutz flat on the bottom right out of the box, and it holds an edge well.

Someone mentioned earlier, and I'll attest, that when you go from the block and bench plane to the shoulder plane (or a rabbet plane for that matter), you can end up getting bit by the plane - and it can be so sharp that you don't notice it until you've dripped blood on the workpiece - not cool.

I don't know if it makes a difference between the LV and the LN planes - they both look like nice designs, the LV maybe a little more updated in form. If you get any of them, you'll be worlds ahead of using a chisel in terms of ease and satisfaction.