Ipe and Teak, how workable is it?

[Joe Koren]

Hi,

I am currently planning on building some outdoor furniture - a dining table, 10 or so chairs, a bar and prep area, and bar chairs, a few deck chairs and a coffee table or two (it is a big area off the deck). This process will no doubt be over a long period .....

Our deck is being constructed out of Ipe (a.k.a. Brazilian Walnut). Ipe is a very hard wood. One website wrote "Janka hardness is 3540, making it somewhat hard and durable, 743% harder than white pine" It is supposed to be a great exterior wood but I would like to know if anyone has built anything out of it. One website said, that it is so hard that glue and stain sit on the surface and will not penetrate so you can not glue pieces togeter and therefore have to predrilled and use screws. I am assuming it is very hard on tools and blades. The price per board foot is almost a third the price of teak. So has anyone used it? I would like to know the good, the bad, and the ugly?

The other option is teak. The "Janka hardness is 1155, making it somewhat hard and durable, 175% harder than white pine." I have seen a lot of teak furniture. I have never built with it. I have been told that once you cut teak you have to "wipe it with mineral spirits and glue it immediately before the oil in the wood reaches the surface." Again, I ask if this is true or false. Has anyone used it? Any success? Any problems?

Finally, has anyone used both in a piece of furntiture? I am trying to find out if they have similar expansion and contraction, or if there are any other issues.

Please feel free to give me ANY insight!! Oh, I am also looking for any good outdoor chair and table plans ... something visually interesting.

Thanks a bunch,
Joe

[John D Watson]

Hey Joe, I know nothing about Ipe but have worked with Teak a fair bit over the years. Teak can be very hard on tools as it is impregnated with sand and the like. It is not uncommon to see sparks when machining it. Keep the shop clean to avoid a fire. Check your blades often for cleanlyness and remove any residue that collects and you will find blades last much longer. It weathers very well and lasts for ever if taken care of (teak oil). Glue up can be problematic due to the oils in the wood. So far I have not had any problems as long as you clean off the oil first. Hope this helps some.

[Alex Yeilding]

My limited experience with ipe says it is very hard on tools. Ran a 14" piece TWICE through my jointer, and subsequently had marks on boards I surfaced corresponding to the place I ran the ipe through. So now I have a 5-1/4" jointer until I get the knives sharpened <g>.

Other than that, I like the wood.

[Mark Singer]

Teak will ruin your planer and joiner knives! It has silica....so any table size project, just factor in knives. Carbide are better! You must either use epoxy or glue immediatly....or wipe with laquer thinner.

Ipe,
Hard, hard wood. The ends will check and should be sealed with ancor seal or epoxy... It is also very stable and will not twist. Tightbond III or epoxy is best.

[Mike Parzych]

I've had a little experience with ipe. It will snap a screw faster than anything I've seen. Pre-drill big enough to fit the entire width of the screws through, and tighten very carefully.

One good thing about outdoor furniture made from ipe - no one will ever steal it! Too heavy to carry off! Seriously, figure the weight of whatever you're making first.

[Doug Shepard]

Built a couple of these Ipe Deck Chairs from Nawms plan. It takes 2 men and a dog to lift one so they're good for stopping your deck from blowing away during tornados. Factor in the cost of some band saw blades and router bits cuz Ipe eats em.
60322

[Joe Koren]

Doug, I really like your chair. Is that the natural color or did you stain it? How heavy is it? Have you had the problems of checking?

Also can any suggest where to get the lumber?

Thanks,
Joe

[joseph j shields]

Joe,

I built a deck & railings out of Ipe. A few points:


It cuts nice... but it tears up cutting tools.
When you cut it, it creates lots of very fine bright orange dust (wear a mask)
If you glue it use poly glueHere is good link for info on Ipe.
http://www.ironwoods.com/ComApplications.asp

I called them a couple times and they were very helpful when I built my deck.

Good luck!

-jj

[Steve knight]

I use ipe all of the time. one thing to think about is seldom is the decking material dry. it can have 5 to 20% too much moisture in it. so it will shrink on you if you use decking and don't let it dry out first. but it is pretty slow at drying. I had a 4x4 in the rafters of my shop for 3 years and it still was not stable. ipe works great outside without any finish. you need ot freshly mill it then glue it up right away or sand it if it has been sitting around. gorilla glue works the best of the polys and I have not tried good epoxy.
use a bi metal bandsaw blade and you will get pleny of tool life. I run a lot of ipe through my planer and I get about 4 months on blades or a bit longer.
the dust is yellow though not orange and it is some of the finest dust out there. you need a really good mast to chatch it all. I batted my dc setup to catch it all.

[Doug Shepard]

Doug, I really like your chair. Is that the natural color or did you stain it? How heavy is it? Have you had the problems of checking?

Also can any suggest where to get the lumber?

Thanks,
Joe

Joe
That's the natural color. There's no finish on them. I dont know the exact weight but they are very heavy. I wasn't kidding about the 2 men (just the dog part - she's too smart to try lifting one). I made them for my parents for their retirement home out in AZ. My dad and I had all we could do to get one of them onto the roof-rack of his van when they took them out to AZ. The other one fit inside, but there wasn't room enough for both inside with their other stuff. If I had to guess, I'd say somewhere around 90 LBs. I'm pretty sure it's heavier than an 80 Lb bag of cement. Both survived the trip OK but that was the last I saw them. My dad has mentioned that out in the hot AZ sun they have developed some small surface checks so putting finish on them might not have been a bad idea given their final destination. I got the lumber at a large lumber yard in Detroit that does a lot of sales to decking installers.

[Tim Malyszko]

I was going to build a table and 6 chairs out of teak for our deck; however, once I figured in the cost of wood ($17-$20/BF) and the wear and tear it would put on my tools, I came to the conclusion that I could buy a very nice set of teak patio furniture and still be in the same ballpark if I was building it myself.

Just my 2 cents.

[Steve knight]

there are a couple of ipe subs out there that are nicer to work with one is called cumaru. the color is lighter too the dust is not as bad and it glues up better.

[Eric Sink]

Whenever someone asks about the workability of Ipe, the first that comes to my mind is a question:

Is there any wood which is harder to work than Ipe?

Ipe is unbelievably hard and heavy. It eats blades. It makes annoying yellow toxic sawdust.

I actually like Ipe a lot, but in terms of difficulty, what other wood is even comparable?

[Steve knight]

myself I get plenty of life out of my tools cutting it and other tropicals. 2 to 4 months out of a bi metal bandsaw blade is fine 3 months or so between sharpening my sawblades. several months on a set of planer blades.
desert ironwood is worse. hard to really pick the worst tropica. ioe is about the worst dust maker. a bit worse then padouk though I think bloodwood makes an even finer dust but nto as much of it.

[Dan Larson]

I've been thinking about making some outdoor furniture, too. Since I'm not willing to shell out the $$$ for teak, I've been considering purpleheart. Although more expensive than ipe, purpleheart is quite a bit cheaper than teak. I know the purple color will fade quickly outside (which is fine with me), I'm interested in it because it's heavy, rot resistant, & is usually sold kiln dried.

Any thoughts? Is it any easier to work with than ipe?

Dan

[Steve knight]

more expensive? not here I get 8/4 for around 3.50 a bf.
but it is a little easier to work with and the dust is not horrible. 80% of my planes are purpleheart so I cut a lot of it and seldom is it a problem. one thing to watch for is cross cutting it the wider boards say over 8" can bind the blade. I have jammed blades in it more when I am almost through with my scms. I usually chop through at the back of the board then go to the front and cut normally.

[Dan Larson]

more expensive? not here I get 8/4 for around 3.50 a bf.
That's a great price... less than half of the best price I've seen around here in the Chicago area.

[Joe Koren]

I asked at the local lumber yard, Mr. Robert's in Southern New Jersey, about Ipe and Teak. They are selling Ipe and Teak at $22 pbf.

So I have asked about alternatives. They mentioned:

1. Cedar
2. Cypress
3. Mahagony

I don't like the "yellow pine" look of Cypress, so what is everyone's thoughts on the other two. I did not think mahagony is an outdoor wood, and I though it would rot fairly quickly is left outside.

I have been trying to find information on these products to ... does anyone have any links.

Thanks again,
Joe

[Steve knight]

I asked at the local lumber yard, Mr. Robert's in Southern New Jersey, about Ipe and Teak. They are selling Ipe and Teak at $22 pbf.


Thanks again,
Joe

ipe for as much as teak? sounds like you need to shop around or do mail order. it is 5.50 a bf for lumber not sure on the decking price.

[Matt Calder]

All,
Last year we shopped for patio furniture. The sales person was pushing jarrah furniture as a reasonable (cost wise) substitute for teak. It is apparently suitable for outdoor furniture and I believe it is quite workable. Looks nice too though I think its color changes with time in the sun.

Matt

[Steve knight]

All,
Last year we shopped for patio furniture. The sales person was pushing jarrah furniture as a reasonable (cost wise) substitute for teak. It is apparently suitable for outdoor furniture and I believe it is quite workable. Looks nice too though I think its color changes with time in the sun.

Matt
the stuff is pretty splintry though and here it is the same cost. but it does not have oil in it so it would be easier to glue.

[Bill Pentz]

Joe,

My cast metal chairs and matching swing all came with white oak. Every year I refinished the wood, but the sun and rain left that an annual chore. When I took a forced vacation for a few years, rot set in and wiped out the oak. I replaced it all with cypress. Although the cypress was supposed to hold up forever, it quickly developed dark mold lines that made it look terrible. I began looking around and ended up going with the ipe instead of teak due to cost.

Last fall I found the ipe very reasonably priced from a local decking firm. Knowing it is hard on tools as it has much higher silica content than most other woods, believe it or not I paid that decking firm a little extra to do the ripping and put a quarter-round on all edges. Sanding was ugly with the dust ranging from reddish to mostly bright yellow, so work outside with a good mask. Splintering was also a problem resulting in my just tossing a few more boards than expected. My ipe was kiln dried, so moisture was not a problem, but finishing was tough. Start with wiping down with lacquer thinner or the finish might not stick. Nothing soaks in well at all, so stick with very thin light coats of a good penetrating deck oil sealer giving each coat a week or so to dry. Three coats made a really good looking result. Unfortunately, the weather moved in before I completed my finishing, so I still have three more sets of slats to finish before putting all back together.

bill

[Ed Garrett]

Joe,

I also worried about glue sticking to teak. I just made two teak projects using just lap joints and lots of stainless steel screws (see attached).They are plenty strong (and heavy). The dust from routering and sanding was nasty, but the finish is great. Good luck.

Sincerely,

Ed Garrett
Tallahassee, FL