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Larry Bratton
03-14-2007, 5:07 PM
Being a total newbie to laser engraving (should be getting my laser next week) I am trying to learn as much as possible before arrival. My question is -what is kiss cutting? When you kiss cut, I assume that is a low power cutting procedure to cut very thin materials like sign vinyl or the like. Need more information on the subject please. Thanks in advance.

Joe Pelonio
03-14-2007, 5:14 PM
You have it. It means cutting through the first surface without cutting the second. In the case of sign vinyl it would be cutting through the vinyl but not the backing (release liner). Another example could be cutting through a piece of Rowmark Laminate that's attached to a piece of 1/4" acrylic without
cutting through the acrylic, though that would be harder, if not impossible.

Really with a laser Kiss Cutting works best on thin materials where the power is set low.

It's basically what a vinyl plotter knife does.

Larry Bratton
03-14-2007, 5:59 PM
OK, I'm clear. I assumed as much. I have cut lots of vinyl on a plotter but I'm afraid I'm not a very good vinyl applicator. However, I have a fellow that helps me in the sign biz and he is a wizard with that stuff.
I am getting an Epilog EXT 24x36 40w so we might try some vinyl on it. Would you use cast or intermediate grade? What kind of settings would you use?

Dave Jones
03-14-2007, 6:15 PM
If you're new to this be aware that you should not cut or engrave PVC based materials in a laser because the fumes turn into hydrochloric acid and eat the machine. You should stick to polyester "vinyl". I believe most vinyl used by sign cutters are PVC based.

Also be aware that you will void Epilog's warranty if you cut or engrave PVC.

Joe Pelonio
03-14-2007, 6:39 PM
You really can only safely cut the metallized poly, like mirror and brushed gold and silver. Either cast or intermediate will cut nicely but they do contain PVC.
There are colored poly based films out there but my supplier stopped carrying them and I have yet to find another source.

I checked with various manufacturers directly and only one (Arlon Calon) told me that the amount of PVC was insignificant and should not be an issue with the laser, but then they don't have a laser. As a rule I will not engrave it or through it, but have cut it only in small quantities where I have applied it to another material such as acrylic for letters in a color to match their other signs. If I get a bunch of large letters then I'll cut the acrylic first, apply the vinyl and then hand trim it.

As for applying vinyl there are several tricks, and the biggest thing is practice. I have been doing it 14 years now. When I've trained a new employee it's taken them as much as 2 months to get it down, even then they wouldn't be doing vehicles especially tricks with rivets like this one I did recently:

Larry Bratton
03-14-2007, 7:19 PM
Joe, that's nice work! But I gotta tell you, making signs of cut vinyl is not my favorite thing. I don't intend to do much of it. We have a plotter but mostly do cnc routed and engraved signage now days. I have seen various posts in this forum about cutting vinyl and I heed your advice about PVC in laser. PVC though as a material is not bad to work with and we have made some signage with it. You have to use a bonding agent to paint it though and I believe we used acylic paint. It's a good outdoor product.

Joe Pelonio
03-15-2007, 7:52 AM
I used to prime PVC with an automotive primer, then you can use acrylic latex on it. Lately I've discovered that the Krylon made for plastic works. Mostly we use it for sign substrates with vinyl lettering on top. It's also easily bent with a heat strip.

Larry Bratton
03-15-2007, 10:55 AM
I made some signs not long ago for condo development. They had a really funky dark red they wanted for the letters and they wanted the background to be white. Well you can imagine what a pain that would be to paint. So, what I did, I bought 3/4" thick PVC, used a bonding agent (Sherwin Williams),and then painted the whole 4x8 sheet with the funky red. Then I reverse routed the letters on the CNC. The background is now white and the raised letters are red. Then I cut them apart (these were like 4x6 plates for door identification) with the router and they turned out great. We did the building ID signs the same way. PVC is a good material but requires a little special treatment.