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Glenn Clabo
03-14-2007, 12:25 PM
He says give them a chance...
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/HomeDepotCEOWeLetYouDown.aspx?GT1=9145

Nancy Laird
03-14-2007, 12:32 PM
And seeing is believing - so until I see a sea-change in our stores, they are still off my list.

But...having said that, I have to admire Frank Blake for what he has said and done. Now let's see if he follows through. But his first task should be to make major modifications to the buy-out given to the prior CEO. No one who ruins a company like the prior CEO did deserves a multi-million-dollar "reward" for doing so. Wonder if he can get the Board of Directors to rescind the buy-out or some portion of it???

Nancy

Matt Meiser
03-14-2007, 1:01 PM
Blah blah blah. If he wants to prove they are doing something different, assign a team to personally address the issues. They have to have hundreds of thousands of complaints on record--start with those. I know with the complaint I filed over a situation we had, they sent us a $50 gift card "to make up for" the 20 hours wasted in getting our windows ordered and then subsquently getting what we paid for, in undamaged form. Then when we went to the store to spend the gift card, the manager whom I had specifically complained about and several employees followed us around the store. They never even bothered to respond to my followup complaint.

Ellen Benkin
03-14-2007, 1:07 PM
He has a long way to go, but it's not an impossible task. If decent leadership can make an impact on individual stores then, maybe, they can improve. I think good store managers can affect change, but I'm not sure about good CEOs affecting the local stores. I hope he can because it's a long haul to my nearest Lowes.

Nancy Laird
03-14-2007, 1:14 PM
This is the e-mail I just sent to Mr. Blake. I'll let you know if I get a response.

Dear Mr. Blake,

I have read your very public message on MSN. You will go a long way toward restoring the buying public's loyalty and your own credibility by convening an emergency meeting of your Board of Directors and reworking the prior CEO's buy-out/parachute package and getting some of the money back from his pocket, put it into the pocket of the corporation and use some of those millions to shore up your stores and stock, pay decent wages to your store managers and associates, hire people who know what they are doing rather than just hanging around for a paycheck, and quit buying your wood (solid and ply) from China!

Words don't mean a lot unless there are actions to back them up---very PUBLIC actions.

Sincerely,

Nancy Laird
Rio Rancho, NM
--------------------------------------------------
Nancy

Ken Werner
03-14-2007, 1:25 PM
Nancy - good note. Let us all know what [if any] response you get.
Ken

Darroll Walsh
03-14-2007, 1:35 PM
Glad to see that they are going to try and remidy the situation. Until they do though I will be going to Lowes.

Paul Johnstone
03-14-2007, 1:44 PM
I doubt that they can legally take back money from the old CEO. I'm sure the guy had a contract.
That said, why do you worry about what the ex-CEO is getting, unless you are a big stockholder? Even if you are a stock holder, in the long run, it will make little difference.. Either the store will turn itself around or it won't.

It will be interesting to see these staffing changes. I was kind of peeved off because last night, only the self service checkout lane was open. I hate those.. Luckily the contractors' checkout on the other side of the store was open.

It's going to be difficult to change the attitudes of some people there. I made the mistake of special ordering floor tile there once. Three of the boxes were smashed up. The HD employee's reaction: "Well, I'm sure you ordered extra, didn't you?".. Geez, I didn't order extra for you to break them. So they ordered replacements, and then when I was installing them, the replacements were slightly smaller than the original run, which made it impossible to do a high quality job. :mad: I mean, I expected the color to not match perfectly, but the fact that the size was off really burned me. I was able to fudge it so it didn't look horrible, but it still annoys me that the job didn't come out well thanks to Crap Depot.

Ken Fitzgerald
03-14-2007, 1:55 PM
It'll be interesting to see what actually happens at HD now.

I, for one, only shop there for finishing supplies these days.


Nancy.....to add some subject matter to your email. Since I got out of the Navy in '76 I've worked for 2 extemely large corporatons. I am currently drawing a pension from one and hope to retire from the other in 2 1/2 years.

In the course of working for those corporations, I've gone through some interesting experiences. I was a manager for one of those companies. Located in Chicago with engineers in Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin and northern Indiana working for me. When the VP of service gave me a decision to make.....screwing my engineers or my customers.....I flew to Cleveland and in front of the VP, regional managers and other managers stepped down. I'm not a particularly religious person but I have certain morale values I will not break. At night, when I lay my head on my pillow, I fall to sleep nearly instantly.

Today, in management of a lot of companies, we see a lot of "ladder climbers" and those of us at the front lines with the customers are scared to death. They make decisions based on short term outcomes....that will effect stock prices today and have little concern for the long term effect with the customer base. I work in a long term buying based product and customer field. Upset a customer today...big time....you may wait 7-15 years to get your foot back in the door. And yet...all to often .....short term management decisions will slam the door and those folks are "ladder climbers".....they've moved on either laterally or up and are not held responsible for their decisions. 2 years later when the customer base is dropping......what caused it...who caused it.....those who made the decisions are not around.....

It's funny.....corporate boards decide on top level management contracts...and who determines corporate boards........often it heavily influenced by upper level management........

We'll see if HD management walks the walk...or just talks the talk......there's a significant difference IMHO....

Dennis Putnam
03-14-2007, 2:14 PM
:mad: I mean, I expected the color to not match perfectly, but the fact that the size was off really burned me. I was able to fudge it so it didn't look horrible, but it still annoys me that the job didn't come out well thanks to Crap Depot.

In HD's defense, that was not their fault. HD does not manufacture tile. It was a manufacturers problem although the same tile of a different size is really strange. I doubt any tile dealer would have anticipated that. Either way you probably shouldn't have accepted delivery (I know, who can wait for another reorder, which still may be wrong, while there is an unfinished floor). What was their problem was the mishandling of the original material that put you in that position in the first place. Just a side note, Lowe's is no better as I know someone that had the same problem except the reorder was fine. I wonder if these big box stores are really worth the discounts sometimes. The local mom & pop tile store is more expensive but maybe you get what you pay for.

In any case, as wood workers, who gets wood from HD or Lowe's anyway? Both buy from China. I also wonder if Mr Blake will understand the China comment made by Nancy? Will he understand she is not necessarily anti-China, anti-communist or anti-import but rather referring to the quality of the woods and how they behave when cut? More detail on that might have been warranted. Anyway both HD and Lowes are high volume retailers, they are not going to sell much volume of quailty hardwoods so that is why all you find is that stupid "hobby" wood. I won't be wood shopping at HD any time soon no matter what happens to customer service unless I'm putting in a deck or something.

Paul Johnstone
03-14-2007, 2:23 PM
In HD's defense, that was not their fault. HD does not manufacture tile. It was a manufacturers problem although the same tile of a different size is really strange.


IMO, it is Home Depot's fault. They shouldn't use a vendor that can't manufacture a consistent size from batch to batch. My guess is that the manufacturer uses several sites which are all tooled up a little bit differently. Home Depot doesn't care. They only care about what it's going to cost them. I found out on the John Bridge forum later that this experience has happened to a number of other people.. Even if you pull it off the shelf, it's basically almost random sizes.. Not acceptable at all for tile.





I doubt any tile dealer would have anticipated that. Either way you probably shouldn't have accepted delivery (I know, who can wait for another reorder, which still may be wrong, while there is an unfinished floor).

I didn't notice the descrepancy until I had about 8 or 9 of them laid.
And I had a bucket of thinset and an impatient wife who wanted the floor done yesterday.
I learned my lesson. I should've gone to a real tile store. They don't pull stuff like this.






What was their problem was the mishandling of the original material that put you in that position in the first place.


I don't know. When they wheeled my order out, three boxes were totally smashed. I guess some idiot just tossed them, instead of handling with care.




Just a side note, Lowe's is no better as I know someone that had the same problem except the reorder was fine. I wonder if these big box stores are really worth the discounts sometimes. The local mom & pop tile store is more expensive but maybe you get what you pay for.



My mistake was letting my wife choose a tile from Home Depot, and assuming that the tile would actually all be the same size. I guess with Home Depot, you can't assume any quality control.





In any case, as wood workers, who gets wood from HD or Lowe's anyway? Both buy from China. I also wonder if Mr Blake will understand the China comment made by Nancy? Will he understand she is not necessarily anti-China, anti-communist or anti-import but rather referring to the quality of the woods and how they behave when cut? More detail on that might have been warranted. Anyway both HD and Lowes are high volume retailers, they are not going to sell much volume of quailty hardwoods so that is why all you find is that stupid "hobby" wood. I won't be wood shopping at HD any time soon no matter what happens to customer service unless I'm putting in a deck or something.

Home Depot used to have decent oak plywood (B grade) about 10 years ago. Today, each sheet costs about $10 less, but the quality is horrible.
Again, all they care about is cost and margin %. That's the same reason the stores are understaffed. They take the customers for granted. We are all just big suckers to them.

Jeffrey Makiel
03-14-2007, 2:32 PM
In HD's defense, that was not their fault. HD does not manufacture tile.

Perhaps legally you are correct. But in my mind, Home Depot is responsible as the selling agent. At least, as a customer, I feel this way.

I understand how different dye lot runs by a manufacturer may affect color, but size? In all the years my family worked with ceramic and porcelain tile, this is a first for me. In my mind, this indicates that Home Depot's buyers seek out the lowest quality manufacturers to fill their shelves with product. Or, they leverage their selling power to force quality name-brand manufacturers to make a cheap product line specifically for Home Depot. Unfortunately, I learned this the hard way.

As similar to selling inferior Chinese plywood, this is definitely Home Depot's fault and possibly their demise.

-Jeff :)

Eddie Watkins
03-14-2007, 2:35 PM
I bought 10 replacement windows, 8 interior doors, a patio door, and a front door a couple of weeks ago at a Lowe's and when I asked for help getting them loaded, I was told they were too short handed. I had to load them by myself. I'm not trying to defend HD because they aren't any better but I haven't found Lowe's to be very helpful either. I was able to get some helpful information from a knowledgable salesperson, but he was so overwhelmed with four customers he couldn't do a good service for any of us. I made the decision then to find some place where I could get service for all the large stuff. Both places are definitely understaffed and, depending on when you go, finding a knowledgeable salesperson is a roll of the dice. I also bought some vinyl floor tiles from HD that were made in China. They had so much glue on them they slid around as if they were on water.

Eddie

Don Bullock
03-14-2007, 2:35 PM
Time will tell, won't it. For many it's too little, too late.

Al Willits
03-14-2007, 3:13 PM
fwiw, was the tile of quailty that you expected?
If so where you get it from doesn't make any difference, problem is the way HD handled the tiles, poorly.
We're looking at granite tiles for our kitchen and and when we mentioned we may be a bit before we need it, several of the tile shops made mention that we should order all the tile at once to make sure they match, different batches may look different, same with the back slash ceramic tiles, so I'm not sure you could blame HD for that.

Hindsite being golden, you should have declined the order, then try to explain it to the wife...:)

I doubt any of this makes any difference to the high end woodworker, but I would think many of us might be picking us supplies and such from them, name brands items that are cheaper, made it hard not to.

HD competition here is Menards, there I find slightly better help, a nicer place to shop, and their lumber seems to be better quaility, and comparible pricing, they get 90% of my business and will until HD gets their act together.
Last time I was in there was for a sale on insulating foam in a spray can, asked three of the employee's where it was, and none of them found it.
Beasty found it in kitchen supplies....go figure.

As they say (used to anyway) in business, They talked the talk, but can they walk the walk....?

Al...who hates that saying...:D

Eddie Watkins
03-14-2007, 3:31 PM
fwiw, was the tile of quailty that you expected?....

Al...who hates that saying...:D

Al,
the quality of the tile was not bad. This is for an older house we are renovating to sell so we are not buying upper end stuff but it wasn't the bottom end, either. They were not ordered, just bought in the store. LOML picked them. When I opened the box I could tell there was a lot of glue on them but thought they would be ok. I ended up taking them back and they did exchange them. I did have to unload them and reload the new ones myself.
They did load them the first time for LOML. I wonder if it is my deodorant.?:confused: :rolleyes:

Eddie

Paul Johnstone
03-14-2007, 3:43 PM
fwiw, was the tile of quailty that you expected?
If so where you get it from doesn't make any difference, problem is the way HD handled the tiles, poorly.
We're looking at granite tiles for our kitchen and and when we mentioned we may be a bit before we need it, several of the tile shops made mention that we should order all the tile at once to make sure they match, different batches may look different, same with the back slash ceramic tiles, so I'm not sure you could blame HD for that.

Hindsite being golden, you should have declined the order, then try to explain it to the wife...:)

I was willing to accept a slightly different color. I understand that dye lots vary. But size on tile should not vary between manufacturing lots.
The bottom line is that I ordered what I needed for the job, and got screwed by Crap Depot's incompetence. Whether the blame goes on the handlers or the idiot that lined up that supplier doesn't matter to me when I have to look at that floor.

Robert Mayer
03-14-2007, 3:54 PM
How about taking back the $260 million that that piece of **** nardelli stole, while paying his workers $7 an hour.

I worked there for about 8 months part time and everyone was miserable. Its a terrible place to work.

Mark Carlson
03-14-2007, 4:14 PM
Instead of dispatching a task force to look into the complaints, he should take off his suit and go into the stores and start shopping, looking for help, and trying to check out.

~mark

Bill Jepson
03-14-2007, 4:18 PM
I'm glad that it wasn't just me! My local Home Depot is dirty, and under staffed. One of the problems that results is that many of the pull bins never get looked at. The classic problem is items set in the wrong bin by other customers or staff. If you or I try to make a quick purchase of multiple bags of items, you must inspect every item to be sure the correct thread, or size, or length... etc. this is totally in keeping with the e-mail from Scott to the Home Depot management. This is time abuse, and it's worse if you manage to make it all the way home and don't have enough items to complete the job! I've been using OSH Hardware in the San Jose, California. Sears just bought them though and I hope they don't run downhill as HD has done.
Bill Jepson

James Kuhn
03-14-2007, 4:22 PM
I think they may have gotten the the wrong message in this case. I guess people were complaining about customer service and that is what they plan on addressing, but for me the problem has always been with the products themselves. You can have the most courteous and knowledgeable salespeople ever but if you can't stock a straight stud or electrical/plumbing fittings that actually work together, you're outta luck.

Dan Clark
03-14-2007, 4:33 PM
As long as they are driven mainly by stock price, they will focus on profits. As long as they focus mainly on profits, they will sell cheap stuff and pay their employees nothing. End result? Difficult or impossible to get good products and service from them.

I don't think that will change.

Dan.

p.s., I don't think Lowes is any better.

Scott Vigder
03-14-2007, 4:59 PM
Kudos to HD's CEO for realizing their problems are not minor. HD had a great corporate culture in the 90's and they need to recapture their dedication to excellence across the board.

I live in a small community of 12,000. HD opened a store 18 months ago, and it is pitiful. My nearest Lowes (and a larger HD) are 30 miles away, so I try to support my local store when I can.

I still go to the local Busy Beaver first to see if they have what I need. Sometimes they are priced lower, sometimes they are higher. And every time I walk into my Busy Beaver, someone, regardless of how busy they are, says hello to me. I'm not what you would call a chatty guy, but I like the fact they appreciate my business.

Bob Spare
03-14-2007, 5:15 PM
He says give them a chance...
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/HomeDepotCEOWeLetYouDown.aspx?GT1=9145

Advoid HD for many reasons. Was a major fan at one time.
Started going to Lowes, when they didnt have what was looking for......went to Menards.

Menards here (2 Places) are doing major overhaul to their stores.
Wider aisle & more. (still understaffed...:mad: )

To my regret they added a major food line of whatever from can goods to potato chips.

Now when I go out, tell the wife
"going for a can of beans".

My way of saying going to Menards.:D

Al Willits
03-14-2007, 5:26 PM
I was willing to accept a slightly different color. I understand that dye lots vary. But size on tile should not vary between manufacturing lots.
The bottom line is that I ordered what I needed for the job, and got screwed by Crap Depot's incompetence. Whether the blame goes on the handlers or the idiot that lined up that supplier doesn't matter to me when I have to look at that floor.

Just called the shebeast to ask her, she said I couldn't remember my...er....nevermind...but she did say they told us size would stay the same, but design/color may vary, I stand corrected on that.

But yes, to even offer them it that shape was not consumer friendly, rarely do I find someone there that seems to enjoy their job and have a clue.

CEO's leaving companies with large bonus's seems to be the norm, our local airlines has lost money for years and they still give out major bonus....go figure..

Al....CEO coming into the workplace...heheheheh ya right!..be nice though.

David Cramer
03-14-2007, 5:41 PM
Everything is cyclical, in my opinion anyways. I worked at a Home Center for 2 and 1/2 years and the bottom line is and always will be M$N$Y, period.

Case in point. I was in our Best Buy yesterday to get a DVD for my sons birthday (12th) and I was only in the DVD section near the front of the store. I was approached by 3 different employees, yes 3, while I looked for about 15 minutes at max, but it may have been only 10. Let me tell you, just one short year ago and years and years prior to that, I wouldn't have been able to get help if I looked for it. They have big rah rah meeting with their employees before the work day starts and also when it ends. I can't say that they do this every day, but they do it alot.

I believe Robert Mayer was talking about pay and he is absolutely right. You get what you pay for. Ten years ago all cashiers started at $10 an hour (minimum) at Home Depot. I got this from very good sources (the cashiers themselves at every store I was in). I have a friend who is paid very well in the plumbing department and he is good, but not an expert or licensed. He makes over $17/hour and they would love to see him go away. As he told me, if they really want you to go away, they WILL come up with something. Believe it or not.

Someone mentioned who cares what Nardelli is getting (260 million). That poster was wrong as could be. If you were working your butt off and getting $7/hour, how would you feel if heard that the exiting CEO was getting that much? Come on now, let's be realistic. That is totally insane to pay that much and based off what he did while holding down that position, it should be boarding on illegal (in my opinion anyways). Personally, I don't believe he will actually get that much based off the many people that I've talked to, but time will tell. I don't think he'll even get 25 percent of it, which would still be tooooooooooooo much.

Again, you get what you pay for. Unmotivated employees, even with shelves stocked, doesn't do a company any good. I think they will eventually turn it around (as well as GM:) ), but not to everyones liking. Will they change the wood vendors, I doubt it. Remember people, they sell to do-it-yourselfers, not people making fine furniture. As long as they are selling to enough people to keep their wood sales moving at a steady rate, they could care less if they sell to Mr. Smith or Mr. Jones. As long as they are making money.

I hope they do turn it around, because it can only be good for all of us, including the people who work there. The people who know nothing and are just stuck in there as a body, that happens at all places. Having someone in electrical who knows nothing about electrical makes no sense. But if a manager is short in that area on so and so night, he may take someone from the flooring dept. and say "do the best you can".

It's just the way it is until they entice enough skilled people with fair wages and benefits to fill the necessary departments. A lot of times the manager cannot, I repeat cannot hire anyone because corporate won't let them. The place to complain is Atlanta, not your local store or even the regional manager. I worked for Builder's Square years ago, but I know many people at Home Depots and Lowe's and the one's I know work hard and are good at what they do. Unfortunately, they get treated like crap a lot of the time and after awhile, anyone would get sick of it. Maybe the new guy can do something and change moral along with the pay scale.

Sorry if I've bored any of you, but the bottom line is M$N$Y, and always will be. How a company goes about making it, that is a different story all together.

Dave

James Kuhn
03-14-2007, 5:53 PM
Sorry if I've bored any of you, but the bottom line is M$N$Y, and always will be. How a company goes about making it, that is a different story all together.

Dave

Generally I agree, but some retailers are doing things differently and succeeding. A little story on Wholefoods:

http://www.fastcompany.com/online/02/team1.html

"A salary cap limits executive pay to no more than eight times the average wage." Makes $260 million just to fire a guy sound criminal.

Luciano Burtini
03-14-2007, 6:46 PM
I too have had a similar experiences to the tile problem - at least twice. Once, I purchased about 500 sqft of very nice 3-1/2" Maple hardwood flooring (from Canada), laid it down and decided that I would like to get another 500 sqft of the same maple. Although I scoured every HD in a 400 mile radius, all I found was about another 60 sqft. In the end, I used a different brand & species for the rest of the house

After the hardwood fiasco, I went to finish off the baseboards. The baseboard that I used in the first 500 sqft of the house was complete, but I hadn't purchased the remainder. No problem, took my sample to HD only to find out that they no longer carry the profile. I now have a house with two different floors and two different baseboard profiles.

Although I suppose both of these problems could occur anywhere, it seems to be a common theme with the big box guys. If you purchase material from them, you better purchase enough to complete the entire job.

Interestingly, the baseboard comes from Chile. Hard to believe with all of the softwood we produce in North America that it could be cost effective to ship baseboards from Chile. Then again, much of the new hardwood flooring is coming from China, even though many of the woods clearly originated in North America. Makes one wonder.

Greg Peterson
03-14-2007, 8:07 PM
I stopped looking and asking for help at HD. When Lowes came into the area, I continued the don't look, don't ask policy with them as well.

I'm fully aware of the justifications of the former HD CEO severence package. I am also fully aware of how he treated the share holders near the end of his tenure as well. It is not difficult to connect the dots. He holds the share holders in the same contempt as his customers. And with the huge sum's of dollars at play on Wall Street these days, there is little difference between investors and customers. Investor is just what Wall Street calls a customer.

the one thought I have regarding the justification of his compensation package is that if he had truly advanced the business and done a good job, there wouldn't be the complaints and problems the current CEO has to fix.

Cutting payroll and lowering quality of product is a short term game. Nardelli employed this tactic to great affect.

The irony is that HD could now really use the resources they surrendered in Nardelli's severence package to undo the harm his short term tactics caused.

Pete Brown
03-14-2007, 8:37 PM
Generally I agree, but some retailers are doing things differently and succeeding. A little story on Wholefoods:

http://www.fastcompany.com/online/02/team1.html

"A salary cap limits executive pay to no more than eight times the average wage." Makes $260 million just to fire a guy sound criminal.



I love Whole Foods, and as much as I would like to believe the above, I can't. Here's some more information:
"Strange, but true: One company actually receives positive press for its executive compensation. Media reports frequently tout Whole Foods' pay policy, which caps the chief executive's salary and bonus at 14 times the average worker's pay. The Wall Street Journal, Slate.com, Harvard Business Review and BusinessWeek have all mentioned the pay cap, generally in favorable terms.

"But they all omitted one thing: stock options. Last year, CEO John Mackey's salary and cash bonus equaled $436,000, almost exactly 14 times the average worker's $32,000 salary. But he made $1.8 million exercising stock options, and received another $460,000 because of a company error that allowed stock options to expire unexercised. The grand total: $2.7 million. Another $4.4 million of options have vested, so he can exercise them if he wants."


http://www.forbes.com/2006/04/20/john-mackey-pay_cx_hc_06ceo_0420wholefoods.html

Pete

Matt Meiser
03-14-2007, 8:47 PM
As long as they are driven mainly by stock price, they will focus on profits. As long as they focus mainly on profits, they will sell cheap stuff and pay their employees nothing. End result? Difficult or impossible to get good products and service from them.

AMEN!!!! IMHO, that is a huge part of what is wrong with corporate America today. The only thing they really measure is stock price. Everything else is lip service.

John Terefenko
03-14-2007, 9:00 PM
It is not the tile or the windows that is in question here. It is the management from the top down. When the people running the show from all angles do not care then the aftermath shows. I find it amazing that it is not just a few HD stores that have issues but the entire lot. That has to be an eye opener. I am greatful that Lowes is there to add pressure and the more and more people who stop buying from them the more the problem should come to light for those big wigs. When you walk into a store with a chip on your shoulder to start with makes for tough shopping. I avoid them now as much as I possible can even if it means a few more miles to go elseware. Talk is cheap. If he wanted to make changes then he should have done them first and then came out and spoke. The old adage you get what you pay for is evident in the Home Depots.

Andy Haney
03-14-2007, 9:06 PM
While I have no dispute with anyone's expressed opinions (I agree with most that has been said), I took the time to send the new CEO a note and congratulate him on his "words". I followed with a statement that his "actions" will reveal the truth. I'll be watching HD, and I hope he's sincere.

Andy

Ron Brese
03-14-2007, 9:09 PM
What you do you guys expect, they have to cut staff in the stores so that Bernie can hire qualified staff to keep the fish alive in the Georgia Aquarium.

Ron

James Kuhn
03-14-2007, 9:17 PM
I love Whole Foods, and as much as I would like to believe the above, I can't. Here's some more information...Pete

Geesh! Thanks for bursting my bubble, Pete!:rolleyes:

Dave Avery
03-14-2007, 9:42 PM
As long as they are driven mainly by stock price, they will focus on profits. As long as they focus mainly on profits, they will sell cheap stuff and pay their employees nothing. End result? Difficult or impossible to get good products and service from them.


Dan (and Matt),

It's hardly headline news that big businesses are trying to make money. Shareholders demand that, or else they sell the shares and buy something else. In the extreme, the company goes out of business - bad for both shareholders and employees. Small businesses don't have shareholders - they have owners - whose main interests is ...... making money.

The trick is making money is a customer (and employee) centric way. Lots of people do it and do it well. Lee Valley is a great example, at least from a customer service perspective (can't comment on how they treat their employees).

Home Depot will ultimately win or lose based on how they treat their customers and employees. I have a fair choice of BORG's and locals. I split my business depending on a number of factors, but the locals get my business because of the service they provide. The local lumber supplier, for example, delivers to my door for free. Some of their prices are higher than HD, some are equal. It's close enough so that I don't really have to check. And their business is thriving. The local ACE is competitive enough (for me, perhaps not others) from a price perspective as well as being easy to deal with and knowledgable.

Said a little differently, price - quality - service, choose any two. Those who demand all three are unrealistic. You're not going to get the LOWEST price, HIGHEST quality, and BEST service. People who shop at the BORG's are looking primarily for low price. Since quality is somewhat a given, service suffers.

So take your business where you may, but saying that service is terrible just because the objective is to make money is inaccurate. Best. Dave.

Matt Meiser
03-14-2007, 10:23 PM
Dave, my take is that (making broad generalizations) public companies have a strong tendancy to worry about making the numbers for this quarter. Those in charge don't care about the long term because if it goes bad they've got a nice severance package coming. Privately held companies have decision makers that are personally invested in the company and care about the long term. In this case, they cut service to make a quick buck, at a heavy long term cost.

Wayne Watling
03-14-2007, 10:35 PM
Dan (and Matt),
It's hardly headline news that big businesses are trying to make money. Shareholders demand that, or else they sell the shares and buy something else. In the extreme, the company goes out of business - bad for both shareholders and employees. Small businesses don't have shareholders - they have owners - whose main interests is ...... making money.


They could probably make more money for share holders if they had a slightly longer term and well thought out business plan. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can fire staff to increase short term gains but it often means longer term pain, and I wonder how much the multi-million $$ yearly bonuses come into those short term strategies.

Pete Brown
03-14-2007, 10:43 PM
Said a little differently, price - quality - service, choose any two. Those who demand all three are unrealistic. You're not going to get the LOWEST price, HIGHEST quality, and BEST service. People who shop at the BORG's are looking primarily for low price. Since quality is somewhat a given, service suffers.

So take your business where you may, but saying that service is terrible just because the objective is to make money is inaccurate. Best. Dave.

I'm not sure how other people use HD and Lowes, but I almost always go there looking for a specific widget for some home repair. Price is seldom an object, but selection (and often quality) is. More often than not, I need some dumb plumbing fitting, a specific screw, glue, paint, caulk, or some other such traditional hardware item. I often leave empty handed or with a compromise piece.

I generally don't buy tools at HD and Lowes. I go online (Lee Valley, Rockler, Bob, etc.) or up to Cayce in Hunt Valley. I get my hardwood from Hearne's in PA, and building lumber from local lumberyards. Plywood can come from Lowes or lumberyard. I bought windows and siding from a local window, door and siding company.

When I go into HD, I typically want to be left alone unless you see me struggling to put back the 15 bowed 4x8 sheets I had to move to get the one that was still relatively flat. :) I want aisles that aren't blocked off for an hour while someone piddles with a top-shelf item and a forklift the next aisle over. I want to find plumbing and electrical supplies in their correct bins, not just wherever then ended up (does anyone ever sort out those sections?) and I want them to not be out of stock in the one thing I came in for at 8:30 at night.

When I go to check out, I want a person to ring my stuff up, and I don't want to wait in a half-mile line to do it. I usually don't want to use the self-service checkout because it invariably screws up due to weight and requires assistance (especially if I drink some of that bottled water I bought from the cooler on the way in). I also have an issue with having to ring my own stuff up. :)

As an aside, it is illegal in my county for a homeowner to do any electrical, plumbing or hvac work. Homeowners cannot get a permit and can't even do the work if overseen. However, Lowes and HD both sell DIY books, and have DIY information in those aisles in those stores. They sell the tools and the goods and even offer training classes for homeowners.

Pete

Bruce Benjamin
03-14-2007, 10:55 PM
Dan (and Matt),
-snip-
People who shop at the BORG's are looking primarily for low price. Since quality is somewhat a given, service suffers.

Best. Dave.

I guess it depends on where you live but in my town, (Redding, California) there aren't as many options as in larger metropolitan areas. Price does play a factor but the main reason I shop at HD is because it's convenient. Instead of going to 2 or 3 or more different hardware stores and lumber yards I can usually get everything I need in one stop. The nearest pure lumberyard is all the way across town from me. Unfortunately, since the quality of HD and Lowes lumber is so poor if the job requires good quality lumber I usually end up leaving HD or Lowes angry and driving the extra distance to a real lumberyard. It depends on my needs.

Bruce

thomas prevost
03-14-2007, 11:05 PM
2 points. HD like any other retailer has a staff of buyers who set specifications and write contracts. they are generally given much automony. This is the area that must be changed. Upper management must review and raise the bar as far as quality is concerned.

I worked for a fortune 100 company which up to the 70's a major fear of each manager was that an unannounced employee in a fannel shirt would be caught in his area -the CEO. He would question employees about working conditions, quality, etc. The company name was synonimous with quailty. This was lost and now the company is just trying to survive. Not unique to many US firms. Perhaps Mr. Blake should do the same.

Lloyd McKinlay
03-14-2007, 11:20 PM
is the realization that ALL the pubically held big box stores will have similar pressures and problems. Investors demand a healthy bottom line. That profit is first obtained by gaining market share in the early years, then generally achieved by increasing margin and reducing costs. Why should anybody be surprised that a company which promotes itself as a low price leader also has lower quality products and service?

It reminds me of when I worked for the second largest furniture store in our metro market. A particularly difficult customer had just done the "I'm never shopping here again" routine. A senior partner shrugged, commenting "(Our competetor) can do quite well with those people that that will never shop with us again, and we can do well with customers that will never shop with them again". Lowes and Home Depot basically have the same attitude.

If at all possible I shop the locally owned speciality stores. Yea, it may take a bit more time, and it may cost a bit more money. However I can ask questions of someone who is knowledgeable and I can have some confidence that I'm getting a quality product. I know when I had my store I couldn't afford to sell products that didn't perform satisfactorily; if I sold them junk why should they come back?

Robert Isler
03-14-2007, 11:29 PM
Actions speak louder than words!

RichMagnone
03-15-2007, 12:11 AM
Does anyone really wish that they were warmly greeted when they enter the store?? I am all for giving silly jobs to people who cannot get any other work, but this Sam Walton invention has gone the way of the Edsel.

Call me a cremudgeon, but when I walk in a store, I hope that I am not geeted by a store employee. It is creepy. When I want help, I'll ask.

Low prices and quality merchandise - all that matters. HD can take their smiling faces (ignorance is bliss, right?) and shove them back with the Chinese Plywood.

Ken Fitzgerald
03-15-2007, 12:49 AM
Dan (and Matt),

It's hardly headline news that big businesses are trying to make money. Shareholders demand that, or else they sell the shares and buy something else. In the extreme, the company goes out of business - bad for both shareholders and employees. Small businesses don't have shareholders - they have owners - whose main interests is ...... making money.

The trick is making money is a customer (and employee) centric way. Lots of people do it and do it well. Lee Valley is a great example, at least from a customer service perspective (can't comment on how they treat their employees).

Home Depot will ultimately win or lose based on how they treat their customers and employees. I have a fair choice of BORG's and locals. I split my business depending on a number of factors, but the locals get my business because of the service they provide. The local lumber supplier, for example, delivers to my door for free. Some of their prices are higher than HD, some are equal. It's close enough so that I don't really have to check. And their business is thriving. The local ACE is competitive enough (for me, perhaps not others) from a price perspective as well as being easy to deal with and knowledgable.

Said a little differently, price - quality - service, choose any two. Those who demand all three are unrealistic. You're not going to get the LOWEST price, HIGHEST quality, and BEST service. People who shop at the BORG's are looking primarily for low price. Since quality is somewhat a given, service suffers.

So take your business where you may, but saying that service is terrible just because the objective is to make money is inaccurate. Best. Dave.

Dave,

If a business is not profitable it won't last long and nobody is denying that. It's just that when the corporate managers choose to offer cheaper products or lay off the experienced higher paid employees.....well, they made a profit that quarter...and service did suffer just to make money THAT QUARTER. Wallstreet's expectations were met...but the decision wasn't made in the customer's best interest, and not necessarily the business's long term interest. I agree with you......Low price, high quality, best service....a customer can pick 2...unless, of course, corporate management picks 2 of the 3 for the FORMER customer.

Roy Clarke
03-15-2007, 1:47 AM
The UK has problems with the big sheds too, you're not alone. We're all our own worst enemies, we all want something cheap, and are then sorry when we get it. There is often a cost in time if you get goods cheap. We all feel the goods should come up to our expectations, but all we then get is disappointment. Everybody has the batch variation too, builders order lot of excess materials, skip the excess, and charge the customer anyway. Nothing wrong with that, the job has a better chance of success at a lower cost than having just enough.

The big sheds try to buy cheap, the manufacturer wants the order. After a while the sheds try to screw the price down, the manufacturer gives up, the sheds find another manufacturer. It's the materialist world, if you put quality at the top of the list you pay more per material unit, and buy inner peace.

Think how much some of the workbenches cost that are made by the people who post here, if you take the time into account.

I now expect the worst if I buy from a shed, sometimes I get a pleasant surprise :-)

Paul Johnstone
03-15-2007, 8:56 AM
Interestingly, the baseboard comes from Chile. Hard to believe with all of the softwood we produce in North America that it could be cost effective to ship baseboards from Chile. Then again, much of the new hardwood flooring is coming from China, even though many of the woods clearly originated in North America. Makes one wonder.

Was the material prefinished? If so, that might be why it is made in China. That's why a lot of the furniture is made in China. If you finish a piece of furniture in the USA, you have to have a spray booth, respirator, safety equipment, etc. In China, they just spray outside without even a respirator and no care for pollution or the worker's health. :mad: I have a relative that works for the a furniture company and that's how his company makes things now.

Al Willits
03-15-2007, 12:55 PM
""""""""""""
The UK has problems with the big sheds too, you're not alone. We're all our own worst enemies, we all want something cheap, and are then sorry when we get it. There is often a cost in time if you get goods cheap. We all feel the goods should come up to our expectations, but all we then get is disappointment. Everybody has the batch variation too, builders order lot of excess materials, skip the excess, and charge the customer anyway. Nothing wrong with that, the job has a better chance of success at a lower cost than having just enough.
""""""""""

Cheap? Maybe, but I'd bet most of who have been around a bit just want something that's good quality for a fair price.
Wandered into the local lumberyard last summer and asked for 3/4" oak plywood, was quoted a price over $200 a sheet.
I wanted A-2 and they just had A-1, but still $200 a sheet is more than I thought fair.
Found it for about a little over $100 at another lumber yard and it was A-1 and looked very nice from what I know.
Cheaper, but I doubt the quaility was any different, what I supect the difference is one was a well advertised place and the other wasn't, both have been in business many years though.

I think most expect a $20 sheet of plywood to act like a $20 sheet, and not be furniture grade.

Least you'd hope so. :)

Al...who just wants his moneys worth

James Carmichael
03-15-2007, 3:19 PM
Dan (and Matt),

It's hardly headline news that big businesses are trying to make money. Shareholders demand that, or else they sell the shares and buy something else. In the extreme, the company goes out of business - bad for both shareholders and employees. Small businesses don't have shareholders - they have owners - whose main interests is ...... making money.

.

Amen, Dave.

Frankly, I find American consumers and stockholders (I am American, and am both) a whiny buch. I've been a software developer for many years and just recently jumped over to a non-profit organization. It has its frustrations, still, but not the same as working for public companies where eveyone is a slave to the quarterly filing, and focus on long-term goals for both customer and the organization is nill (lots of good talk about it, though).

If you want great service, go to a small business or specialty store, where they truly do value your business and care if you come back. If you want low prices and don't mind shopping and/or dealing directly with the mfr when there's a problem, go to a big box or online, but you don't get both.

As for the xCEOs big payout, if he was smart enough to get the contract, he deserves it.

Gary Keedwell
03-15-2007, 3:25 PM
My take on this is that the new CEO will put things back to where it was in the 90"s so he can lore the customers back and then a few years from now he will tighten the money belts again so he can pull-out and get "HIS" golden parachute $$$$$$$$$$$

Gary K.:rolleyes:

Dave Avery
03-15-2007, 10:46 PM
Dave,

If a business is not profitable it won't last long and nobody is denying that. It's just that when the corporate managers choose to offer cheaper products or lay off the experienced higher paid employees.....well, they made a profit that quarter...and service did suffer just to make money THAT QUARTER. Wallstreet's expectations were met...but the decision wasn't made in the customer's best interest, and not necessarily the business's long term interest. I agree with you......Low price, high quality, best service....a customer can pick 2...unless, of course, corporate management picks 2 of the 3 for the FORMER customer.

Ken,

No real arguement from me. I said that HD will succeed based on how well they treat their customers and employees. If they do as you say, they'll continue the downward spiral. As you point out (I think), winning back customers that have been burned is X times harder than keeping them happy to begin with.

With respect to quarterly earnings, it's a fact of life for many big companies. The truely progressive ones - Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway for example - eschew quarterly earning guidance because it focuses on short-term results. As more people figure this out, more people will behave similarly (or more people will buy Berkshire Hathaway stock). For an intersting discussion on the subject, Harvard Business Review had an article a few issues ago that's a good read. Best. Dave.

Bruce Benjamin
03-16-2007, 2:35 AM
Yesterday I responded to the HD email address given by the HD CEO. Today I got a call from them thanking me for my comments and asking if I had anything to add. I talked to the lady for a few minutes with a few more specifics about my comments. She thanked me and said they are sending me a $10 gift card for my time. Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. The fact that they are calling back people who send them email is a good sign that they take the negative comments seriously. $10 isn't going to change my mind about the problems with HD but I sure wasn't going to turn it down. Maybe if I wait long enough to spend it I will see some positive changes in my local HD. We'll see...

Bruce

Joe Jensen
03-16-2007, 6:56 AM
I'ver read this thread a few times, and I've posted in it. It still strikes me that the old saying "you get what you pay for" still holds true. We consumers chase the lowest prices, stores have to cut everything to lower prices to stay in business, and then the quality and service suffer until you get where HD is today. WE are the root cause here. OUR obession with lower prices is putting service and quality oriented businesses out of business. I grew up in a small town. Walmart moved into a town 18 miles away, and now most of the local merchants are out of business. Whose fault is it? Walmart has a fiduciary and legal oligation to serve the best interest of it's shareholders. As long as they follow the laws, and serve the shareholders they are doing their job. It's the consumers of my hometown's fault. THEY chose to take their business away from their neighbors and give it to Walmart 18 miles away. Now they all sit back and bitch Walmart and how Walmart has ruined the town.

Joe Jensen
03-16-2007, 7:06 AM
One more thought. Former Home Depot Chief Executive Robert Nardelli was a product of the revered Jack Welch GE school of management. GE has a very structured executive development that is supposed to create top notch CEOs. They rotate every two years. Light bulbs one year, medical equipment another, and then off to aircraft engines. IMHO all this does is create managers who run by spreadsheet. Nardelli had no idea what made HD great in the first place. Another failed former GE exec appointment was Mike Zafirovski as CEO of Motorola. Under his leadership Motorola languished and lost their image and position cellular. Mike Zafirovski is now CEO of Nortel God help Nortel....joe

Dave Avery
03-16-2007, 2:44 PM
One more thought. Former Home Depot Chief Executive Robert Nardelli was a product of the revered Jack Welch GE school of management. GE has a very structured executive development that is supposed to create top notch CEOs. They rotate every two years. Light bulbs one year, medical equipment another, and then off to aircraft engines. IMHO all this does is create managers who run by spreadsheet. Nardelli had no idea what made HD great in the first place. Another failed former GE exec appointment was Mike Zafirovski as CEO of Motorola. Under his leadership Motorola languished and lost their image and position cellular. Mike Zafirovski is now CEO of Nortel God help Nortel....joe

I've worked very closely with GE executives in the past. Playing devil's advocate, Jim McNerney (he and Nardelli lost out to Jeff Immelt who was chosen to replace Jack Welch) has been very successful at both 3M and Boeing. While I don't like the results of what the GE culture breeds, broad generalizations are always dangerous.

Balance is the key. Those who focus on numbers and forget about customers and exployees will fail. Those who make customers and employees happy, but forget that there's a bottom line, will fail just as fast.

Ken Fitzgerald
03-16-2007, 3:33 PM
Balance is the key. Those who focus on numbers and forget about customers and exployees will fail. Those who make customers and employees happy, but forget that there's a bottom line, will fail just as fast.

Astute observation and very well stated!

Joe Jensen
03-17-2007, 12:35 AM
I've worked very closely with GE executives in the past. Playing devil's advocate, Jim McNerney (he and Nardelli lost out to Jeff Immelt who was chosen to replace Jack Welch) has been very successful at both 3M and Boeing. While I don't like the results of what the GE culture breeds, broad generalizations are always dangerous.

Balance is the key. Those who focus on numbers and forget about customers and exployees will fail. Those who make customers and employees happy, but forget that there's a bottom line, will fail just as fast.

I can't agree more with what you said, especially the last statement. I don't doubt they were excellent at GE, at the top levels in GE managers run a diverse portfolio of businesses and nobody does that better than GE. I'm just not a believer in "general purpose" managers. Just because someone is great at light bulbs and locomotives doesn't mean they will necessarily be great at home improvement stores. They might be, might not, won't know until they try...joe

Robert Mickley
03-17-2007, 11:13 PM
Well you can't have both
you either get quality
or you get low price

Which one is it going to be? I for one gave up on low price years ago go for quality, yes I have to shop two or three local hardwares, yes I spend some time on the phone. No i don't cuss cheap Chinese plywood when it warps while cutting it.

On the odd chance I happen to buy framing lumber I can bring it home stack it up and come back a couple days later and its not twisted and warped.

Face it they can spew their propaganda all they want. They are never gonna change.

I'm not going back to look but someone mentioned having two different baseboards. If you had bought that from a local mill or supplier you wouldn't have had that problem. I can go to my local mill and get profiles from years ago that they don't run anymore, but they still have all the heads. If i was doing a restoration I can go there and get molding even if they have to get the knives custom ground. Will it be cheap? NO it won't but the point is you get what you pay for

Kevin Herber
03-24-2007, 9:47 AM
I haven't been going to HD as often as in the past. I read this thread a few days ago and found it quite interesting as I had noticed a decline in customer support.

A day or two after reading the thread I went to my local store and was approached no less than 5 times by employees offering assistance. I was pleasantly surprised.

Last night my wife's work group had a going away party for one of her co-workers. That woman's husband is a GM for one of the local HDs. We got to talking and I told him about this thread. He agreed that the new BossMan is serious about getting "back to the way we were". He is excited that the corporate emphasis is now on the customer. The bottom line will follow. They even brought in the original founder of HD to advise on what needs to be done and how to do it. The last 6 years corporate group is out and old blood is back.

I was impressed and will certainly be watching what happens.

Disclaimer: I know this sounds like a set up thread but I am not affiliated with HD in any way other than a customer who noticed, as we all have, the decline in service.

Ken Fitzgerald
04-06-2007, 10:50 PM
I posted earlier in this thread. The last 2 years, the only time I went into the local HD was to buy finishing supplies with the Christmas gift cards I got from my kids. Well, today I went in and had an interesting experience. No less than 3 employees walked up and asked if they could help. I saw significantly more employees walking the floors offering help. Finally one guy did help me and I asked him out of curiosity how long he'd worked for them. He said this time...14 days.....last time 20 months before getting layed off. I told him about this thread and what the new CEO had said. The guy helping me said "that's why they called and hired me back"....Further more he said let me show you a letter. He disappeared into the employee break room and brought me a letter he'd taken off the bulletin board in there. The gest of the letter.....the manager (Don't know if it was the CEO OF HD as I'm not familiar with his name) but this manager encouraged every employee in a 8 hour shift, regardless of their position or job, to spend 2 hours walking the floor to assist customers. The person writing this letter said.....if we don't take care of our customers, we won't have them or a business......Now if this same attitude holds for a while....maybe there's a chance!