Shaper Advice Please! 3HP Delta or 5HP

[Doug Kerley]

After perusing through all of the shaper threads that I could find, I am still unable to answer a simple question. Is 3HP enough for a shaper or will I grow out of it if I want to start spinning a 1 1/4 spindle with cutters such as a tenoning cutter, or do I need a 5Hp unit. At the present time, I am looking at the 3 Hp Delta 43-431X aka 43-495X or the 5 Hp 43-455.

I will be honest and say that I have never used a shaper but have ambitious plans and am a bit of a tool junkie. Please do not suggest a router table as I have already exhaused the archives on that particular topic.

If any one has some input it would be most appreciated.

Cheers :)

Doug Kerley

[Steve Rowe]

Doug,
My first shaper was a 3HP and I never felt it was underpowered. Raised panels were my heaviest cut on this and since I was doing hand feeding, I took light cuts and never the full cut. I suspect if I was making the cut in one pass with a power feeder, it may have been challenged but will defer to those who have done this with a 3HP machine. I have a combo machine now with a 5.5HP shaper and a power feeder. If the price difference is not too much, I would go with the larger machine. But, I am the kind of guy who believes "mo power is mo better.":D
Steve

[Jim Becker]

I'm far from even being knowledgable, but from what I've read, if you are going to be spinning the really large cutters for tenons, etc., more power is a good thing.

[Joe Chritz]

I can cut a single pass raised panel using a Freud 3 wing ogee cutter for 3/4 stock on a grizzly 3 HP shaper with a small feeder.

I don't but it will handle the cut.

That said, its like racing. If the money is not an object there is no replacement for displacement or in this case horsepower. If 3 is good than 5 must be 1.6667 times more gooderer, or is it bettererer. :D

Joe

[Mike Heidrick]

I can cut a single pass raised panel using a Freud 3 wing ogee cutter for 3/4 stock on a grizzly 3 HP shaper with a small feeder.

I don't but it will handle the cut.

That said, its like racing. If the money is not an object there is no replacement for displacement or in this case horsepower. If 3 is good than 5 must be 1.6667 times more gooderer, or is it bettererer. :D

Joe

Joe, That Freud is a 3/4" cutter correct?

I have a Delta 43-460 and Delta 1hp power feeder - also my first shaper setup.

I think the shaper is the cheapest part of shaping. The bigger cutters and all the accessories you need end up costing a lot of $$$.

Buy your time and watch for the shaper 3 phase sales at amazon. I got mine for $999 . It is a 43-460 5hp model with the 43-812 alum fence. I have easily put in anouther grand into it now though with the purchases of a couple more spindles, a freud RP set, some bushings and the 1hp feeder.

BTW - a feeder is an awesome addition. Try and factor one into your shaper dreams.

I say get the 5hp model if you can find one priced right and you have the electrical service for it.

[Joe Chritz]

Yes is the for 3/4 stock. It will not allow a backcutter to make both faces flush with the rails/stiles. In essence it make a true raised panel. i.e. proud of the frame.

It takes a huge bite into a panel.

I ended up on the last kitchen making the panels .620 if memory serves. That was the best look for the panel.

I am short on shaper tooling with just a few cutters but the cost adds up fast.

+100 on the feeder. Even the baby feeder I have is a huge addition. It gets used regularly.

Joe

[Mike Waddell]

Hi Doug -

+1 for the 5HP model. Using a 3HP shaper on heavy tenoning cuts with a power feeder I have heard that sickening change in pitch just before a cut boggs down (it hurts to hear that sound, doesn't it?). I never bogged it down completely, but I was certain that I would if I didn't take multiple passes to complete the tenon.

Using a 5HP model I don't hear that sound, but I must confess that I always prefer multiple passes just to be safe.

Oh, and Joe, the correct term is "besterer." That is what they teached me in collidge. :D :D

Mike

[Joe Jensen]

After perusing through all of the shaper threads that I could find, I am still unable to answer a simple question. Is 3HP enough for a shaper or will I grow out of it if I want to start spinning a 1 1/4 spindle with cutters such as a tenoning cutter, or do I need a 5Hp unit. At the present time, I am looking at the 3 Hp Delta 43-431X aka 43-495X or the 5 Hp 43-455.

I will be honest and say that I have never used a shaper but have ambitious plans and am a bit of a tool junkie. Please do not suggest a router table as I have already exhaused the archives on that particular topic.

If any one has some input it would be most appreciated.

Cheers :)

Doug Kerley

I've had 3 HP Powermatic for 16 years. Mine is only a 3/4 spindle and I've never run out of power. But, if I were buying again I'd spend the small increment to get 5HP and the larger spindles. I've wanted to use some larger cutters that I just didn't feel comfortable using on a 3/4" spindle...joe

[Doug Kerley]

Thanks everyone for your input. The 5Hp was ordered today.

Cheers

Doug

[Mike Heidrick]

Doug, congrats.

Keep us posted.

Let me know if you want the link to the $805 brand new 1hp Delta feeder.

Mike

[Brian Ross]

I have an older two HP unit and with the power feeder I can cut a raised panel on one pass but that is pushing it to the limit. My next one will be a 5 hp considering the difference in cost. There is probably not many tools out there that can propel a wooden torpedo as far and with such velocity as a shaper. I had the shaper for a number of years before I got the power feeder and hand feeding raised panels always had me on the edge of my seat. I was always trying to figure out direction the panel would be launched should my death grip not be strong enough. I have a 4 wheel power feeder and the shaper is a whole lot safer and you have a better finished product. You can climb cut with a power feeder and trying to do that my hand not possible. This helps to prevent the edges of your raised panels from splitting. I am not trying to scare you away from a shaper but for safety issues I would strongly recommend a power feeder.

Brian

[Caleb Dietrich]

I would also recomend a good power feeder. My initial thoughts are that, if you've never used a shaper, a 5hp might be overkill. I work in a 2 person cabinet shop and we have 2 old 1 1/2 hp jet shapers and a 3 hp delta. We do rails and stiles on the 1 1/2hp and panels on the 3 Delta. You shouldn't be limited by a 3hp. If you're gonna do something a little crazy, just take a few passes, or find another way to remove some material. If I were in your position, I'd spend the extra dough on a power feed. Of all the machines in the shop, the shapers scare me the most.

[Don Bullock]

...At the present time, I am looking at the 3 Hp Delta 43-431X aka 43-495X or the 5 Hp 43-455...

Doug, what is the difference in cost between the two?

[Doug Kerley]

Hi Don,

The price difference between the two basic units was only $600 CDN. If you factor in the additional cost of upgrading the 3/4' spindle to a 1-1/4 the difference is only $400 CDN. I realize that some may think that 5 Hp is overkill for a first shaper but I have just finished upgrading the TS from 2 to 5HP, the DC from 1 to 3HP cyclone and the jointer from a 1Hp 6" to a 3HP 10". Frankly, I thinking spending a little more at the beginning and avoiding replacement will work out better in the long run. Additionally, I live up in Canada's north and the price of shipping becomes a factor. The trucking companies don't charge more for the extra HP.

I am planning to get a power feeder once I familiarize myself with the machine a little.

Thanks for the replies.

Doug

[Mike Heidrick]

Did you order the shaper books?

Cliffe's Shaper Handbook
and
Lonnie Bird's The Shaper book

["Gary Brewer"]

Mike: Could I ask the position on you shaper table top where you placed the mounting bracked for your feeder? Does your feeder run parallel to you miter slot or perpendicular to it? Thanks,
Gary