O1 Blades

[Ryan Cathey]

So, is an O1 blade really that much inferior to an A2 blade? Also how do they compare to vintage Stanley blades in the small planes like the 101? I'm planning on fixing a 101 up for a gift and thought about buying the little victor O1 replacement blade from Lee Valley. Any opinions? Thanks.

-Ryan C.

[Robert Trotter]

Ryan, my understanding of the A2 or O1 blade is that one is not inferior to the other, but using and sharpening is what makes the difference.

Some will say that the A2 blade is better and some will say the O1 will give a better edge. But I'll give you my understanding of it. Remember this is free advice so take it at its value.:)

Before buying my planes and irons I asked questions here on the board and asked Rob Lee and the techs at Veritas. So after all this, these are my conclusions (my opinion) and I bought blades appropriately. Others will have different opinions I am sure so they will let you know. (and me too I'm sure)

You might also want to check out the info section on the Lee Valley site.

1) O1 blades will rust more readily than A2.
But I would not be concerned about this 'easier to rust' thing if you are looking after them. They should rust about the same as your plane so it is a maintenance issue not really a blade choice issue. So if you give the whole plane (blade included) a periodic wipe down with camelia oil or any other protection you wish (search for threads on protecting planes and blades) and keep the dust off (wood dust if left will attract moisture) you should have few problems. It may depend on where you live but for me, I think this is a non-issue as it is a maintenance one.

2) O1 will be able to be sharpened to a keener edge and more readily.
3) O1 will wear faster than A2. (A2 holding an edge longer)

2) and 3) are the two things that you will have to decide on. And unless you are really picky then it may not be an issue at all as you may not notice the difference. Especially if you are using softer hardwoods or softwood. Also it will depend on how much use it will get. A periodic user will be no problem with an O1 blade. If it is used a lot then wear and sharping time will have an effect on your choice.

What will you be using the blade for?
How important is having the sharpest blade and how important is not having to sharpen so often?

You will need to balance your needs.

I have low angle planes, and for higher bevel angles, which will be for harder woods and difficult grain I have A2 for wear and durability (generally.)

But I have O1 for my smoothers since I want the sharpest blade I can get and I want to maintain that sharpness easily. The O1 blade will give me a tad more sharpness, (my opinion) but since it is not as long wearing I will touch it up a bit more often, but then it will be easier to touch up (sharpen) than the harder A2.

A2 will last longer, so for my general purpose jack I have an A2 blade wich will give me a good edge and give me good wear (longer periods between sharpenings)

Remember, I have all low angle planes, jointers to smoothers and block planes and have a small (getting toward large:rolleyes: ) collection of different blades with different bevel angles and different steel. A mix of A2 and O1. This means I can mix and match different blades to different planes for different purposes.

So if you understand all that rambling on then it comes down to longer wear and a little longer sharpening time for an A2 blade and maybe a little more refined edge but more periodic sharpening (but easier) for the O1.

As I said before, unless you are pretty picky, you probably won't notice. But it depends on useage of the plane.

If you want something for hard and difficult wood and maybe using back bevels then you might want to go for the A2 for durabilty.

This all just my opinon and understanding on the matter, so take it with a grain of salt.

I hope it helps.

Robert

[Ryan Cathey]

Wow! Didn't expect such a great reply! I think for such a small plane and of all the things you said I'm going to go with O1. Besides I can get a correct size O1 for ten bucks from Lee Valley but if I wanted an A2 I'd probably have to get a custom Hock for somewhere around thirty(YIKES!! LOL!) Thanks.

-Ryan C.

[Robert Trotter]

Good luck.

[Caleb Dietrich]

Great info

Thanks Robert

[Ron Brese]

Ryan,

I have both types of irons and for some planes I have both for that plane. It's really pretty simple. The surface left by both irons honed to the same level is different. A-2 is smooth, 0-1 is smoother. The same qualities that make A-2 wear longer also make it more work to sharpen. With 0-1 you're done sharpening and back to work. How much time is spent working versus sharpening I think is probably pretty much even. In the long run you may use up the 0-1 iron quicker than the A-2 but how many people do you know that have used up a plane iron? The difference is in particle size, the 0-1 is made up of fine particles the A-2 is made up of larger particles.

All this being said if the A-2 iron is not cryogenic treated after tempering it may not wear any better than the 0-1. When tool steel is heat treated to it's critical temperature the make up of the metal changes and it creates austentite, when it is quenched austentite is changed to martensite, this conversion is quite complete in the oil quench steels like 0-1, however A-2 is air quenched and the conversion is not as complete as it is in oil quench steels, therefore to get complete conversion the A-2 needs to be cryogenic treated in order for the last 20% of austentite to be converted to martensite.

It can be simple or it can be complicated you just have to know what questions to ask.

Ron

[Robert Trotter]

The surface left by both irons honed to the same level is different. A-2 is smooth, 0-1 is smoother.

Ron, very short and to the point. Better than my ramblings.:)

[Steve knight]

The biggest problem today is we are stuck with solid steel irons. So we have to make sacrifices so we can sharpen the iron and that the edge is not too hard so it won't chip. Myself good water hardening steel is great in a laminated iron. Or several others would be great if you’re only using a small amount of it. The steel can be harder since the softer backing absorbs the shock. It can be more abrasion resistant since your only sharpening a small amount of hard steel. I think the only real improvement on woodworking steel will be if we go back to laminated tools. This is why I went for a laminated Japanese iron. But they were too expensive. So I am working on a more cost effective solution to improve a plane blade not just use different steel. Because using a solid steel blade only gives you a choice of edge holding verses ease of sharpening. But that does not make the iron work better.

[Ron Brese]

Well put Steve, This is a new direction to pursue in order to see if we can get our cake and eat it too.

Ron

[Steve knight]

Well put Steve, This is a new direction to pursue in order to see if we can get our cake and eat it too.

Ron
doing it though is far harder since most won't do that sort fof work. I think we really screwed up getting cheap and going to solid steel.

[James Mittlefehldt]

Just out of curiousty Steve how did they manufacture the laminated steel blades in the old Ohio Tool planes, was that a process that has now become prohibitively expensive?

I have several of them in my collec, er I mean workshop, and they don't seem to need a lot of sharpening, though I am the first to admit that sharpening is something I really have to work on.

[Steve knight]

Just out of curiousty Steve how did they manufacture the laminated steel blades in the old Ohio Tool planes, was that a process that has now become prohibitively expensive?

I have several of them in my collec, er I mean workshop, and they don't seem to need a lot of sharpening, though I am the first to admit that sharpening is something I really have to work on.
it used to be done with forge welding. then the did it with casting though I don't know much about that. back then steel was expensive and labor cheap then it changed and solid steel cost less.