Tell me about your Macintosh...

[Chris Barton]

...because I'm sick of my PCs. I have two home computers both of which are PCs. One is a 7 year old HP that works fine but, is old and the other is an E-machines top of the line about 1 year old that's been nothing but a problem since day one. After 20+ years of using a PC I am ready for considering a Mac. Please let me know if you made a similar change and how you like it.

Thanks

[Tony Sade]

I made the switch about a year ago, and I'm never going back. The only dicey aspect was converting my existing Quicken files. Quicken has a process for doing this, but it didn't go as smoothly as I'd hoped. I had to clean up some stuff manually, but at the end of the day, everything is working as it should. Quicken home inventory files do not convert, so I had to archive the old database, and print it out a hard copy, then start building a new database for post-Mac acquisitions. Not a big deal.

I bought a copy of MS Word for Mac, and have had no problems with using existing Word documents created on a PC on the Mac, or vice versa.

Since my initial purchase of an Intel iMac shortly after that machine came out, I bought another for my kid who started college this year and also picked up a used G4 laptop for travel.

I'm a happy convert. There is definitely less software out there for the Mac OS, but unless you're into rather esoteric use of a computer, you shouldn't have any problems finding what you need.

Best thing of course is-no viruses or spyware, and even better, no problems installing, using, and paying for upgrades to the crappy software required to deal what Bill Gates and co. have criminally ignored for years.

The thing just works.

Go for it.

[John Hemenway]

Don't know as to switching. I've only ever owned Macs. Three at home, three in my office and 23 in the lab I oversee. If you can get over the PC concept of computers are difficult, I think you'd love a Mac.

And if you really miss the obscure way of doing things, you can always install Windoze on your new Intel Mac! :)

[Jim Becker]

I wouldn't have bought the "older" Macs, but may very well buy one of the new Intel-based machines when move to my "next machine". I cannot give up using Windows for a few applications...I can't afford to replace them with Mac versions and the licenses don't allow platform switches. (At least so far) The new machines provide the best of both worlds, either in a dual-boot situation with Apple's "bootcamp" or in a VM using a product called Parallels.

Honestly, the "Macs are easier" sentiment was true long ago, but more or less has moderated in recent years with WinXP and Windows Vista. The new Apple machines, frankly, are not only fine machines in their own rights, but also about the best platform going to run Windows when you need or want to with maximum performance available today! What's not like like about that?

[Chuck Wintle]

...because I'm sick of my PCs. I have two home computers both of which are PCs. One is a 7 year old HP that works fine but, is old and the other is an E-machines top of the line about 1 year old that's been nothing but a problem since day one. After 20+ years of using a PC I am ready for considering a Mac. Please let me know if you made a similar change and how you like it.

Thanks
Chris,
What has been the problem with your E-machine? Maybe its something that can be solved.

[Art Mulder]

...because I'm sick of my PCs. ... After 20+ years of using a PC I am ready for considering a Mac. Please let me know if you made a similar change and how you like it.

Chris,

Some random thoughts...

- for home use, a Mac Mini is probably fine. I bought my wife one almost 2 years ago, and for email, internet browsing, and word processing, it has plenty of juice. You can use the monitor you already have, and probably the mouse also. You just need a USB keyboard to go with it.

- one thing to note is that the amount of stock RAM is probably not enough. I would recommend putting in 1.5-2Gig of RAM, but 1Gig would be okay. The stock 512MB of RAM will work, but feel a bit sluggish.

- if you are buying a laptop, I recommend buying the "AppleCare" 3 year extended warranty. The nice thing about this warranty is that you don't need to buy it right away. You can wait 364 days after buying the computer (ie: one day before the warranty expires) and then buy it to cover the rest of the life of the machine. If you are buying a desktop machine, then I wouldn't bother with the AppleCare - I buy it for laptops as they get banged around.

- Do buy yourself an external USB drive at the same time for backup purposes. Either "Carbon Copy Cloner" or "Deja Vu Mac" are two free simple backup tools that will work fine.

- you don't NEED to buy MS-Office. You can use the Free NeoOffice. (it is based on the open source "Open Office" suite. I use it, and it works just fine. I have also heard very good reports on the "Pages" word processor from Apple.

- If you find some MS-Windows software that you MUST run, you can use "bootcamp" to dual-boot the (Intel-based) mac into Windows. You could also buy "Parallels" which will let you run Windows in a window under the Mac OS. Or finally, you could look at Codeweavers "Crossover office" which supports running a number of Windows programs directly on your mac - no Windows XP license needed.

- Don't kid yourself. There WILL be some headaches with converting. You will just be so used to the Windows way of doing things. Give yourself time. Find a friend who you can ask for help, visit mac forums, and so on. For instance, I remember the first time I tried to Burn a CD on a mac I was really pulling out my hair trying to figure out how to do it... that's because I was used to having to run a specific program, build an ISO image, then run the burn... but on the mac I finally realized that I just needed to drag and drop the files. Works like a charm.

- The newer macs all come with good mice, but just in case... do NOT use a standard old one-button mac mouse. Sorry Apple, that is one thing you got wrong. Fortunately a standard 3 button scroll mouse just works when you plug it in. There is a lot you can do with right-clicking.


Any more specific questions? Ask away.

[Joe Pelonio]

I too use older, very expensive programs that won't run on Macs and would hesitate to try and run them under windows on a Mac. If that were not the case I'd definitely look into switching.

PC's seem to be getting almost like printers, in otherwords, they are becomming disposable. Too expensive to fix, easier and cheaper to just get a new one.

For example my son was using an E-machines desktop, after about 1 year
once a month or so he'd get the blue screen of death. After 2-3 times restoring and re-installing we got him a Dell laptop with dual core processor for $699. Has built in wireless network card, larger hard drive, more USB ports and other things that made it far more powerful than the E-Mach. which cost about the same when we bought it.

[Tim Morton]

24" iMac FTW:D

Mac user all my life...both at work and at home. I do have one PC I need to use at work for a couple specific clients who send me PC files. But i have a giant bottle of "Excedrin Migraine" next to it and I pop a couple while its booting up;)

[Ben Werner]

any computer that has the word: "mac" in it is excellent.:D MAC pro, iMAC, MACmini, MACbook/MACbook pro :D:D:D

which one you get really depends on what you would like to be able to do on this machine. Mac Pros are really good if you will expand your computer as you go, ie get more hardrives, put new graphic cards in, boost your RAM, put more memory in etc etc.

[Mike Cutler]

Chris.

Mac user since '98. I have a 17" Powerbook, and a Dual G5, both have been problem free since purchase.

[Christopher Stahl]

Macs are excellent machines. If you really want a system that just works and less headaches, it's probably the way to go. Up until OSX 10.1, I wasn't a huge fan, but they really turned it around. You really have the best of many worlds with them. They run BSD, have a fantastics interface, and if you have an intel based system, you can run windows.

Unfortunately like others, I have a few apps that require Windows. So, you can virtualize Windows or you can run Bootcamp. If you use Bootcamp, you can boot into windows, and like Jim said, it's probably the best platform it will run on. There are a few pieces of virtualization software, Parallels is probably the most popular. The latest version will allow you to use your Bootcamp partition to boot virtually boot into windows. I think this is fantastic. A new version of VMWare is going to get you directx/openGL support, which will allow you to play games. Could be beneficial to some

I manage over 600 computers and only 10 of those are Macs. About 200 of them are linux and Sun's, the rest are Windows. I would bring more Macs into our environment, but too many people are tied to software at the University that only runs on Windows. Quite frustrating. We're trying to get them to make it available for OSX, but some people don't believe there is anything other than Windows. Sad world. Running a virtually would be great, but too expensive since I would need the licenses for both operating systems.

Also, if you go this route and want to use Vista, be careful. Only certain version of Vista are legally allowed to be used this way, and I believe it is the Enterprise versions. So basically, their most expensive versions.

I personally have 3 iMac G4s at home and I also have a MacBook Pro. Keep one in the kitchen, one in the office and one in bedroom. I keep one windows PC for gaming. I do run Parallels on my MacBookPro. It boots off the Bootcamp partition. I use this just for a couple pieces of software I occasionally need to use.

[John Shuk]

I have a 20 inch IMAC G5 2Ghz and a Mac Mini mainly for the kids. Very stable and easy to use. I couldn't be happier. I have had one problem with the IMAC due to a recall for power supplies. They fixed it and I'm back in business.

[Paul Kunkel]

another 20" iMac here. Mac since the beginning. get lots of ram, and if you need to run some Windoz programs get Crossover. Don't need an emulation program like parallels.

[J D Thomas]

I've used Macs exclusively since 1989. They just work, and I've use them professionally in my home-based business also since 1989. Someone said what model you get depends on what you're going to use it for, and that's pretty good advice. Rest assured, whatever model you may end up getting, you won't be sorry.

My favorite computer joke:

What do PCs and air conditioners have in common?

Neither work right when you open Windows!

[Jim Becker]

Paul, Crossover doesn't necessarily support all Windows applications with acceptable performance. Many of us who have this need aren't worried about common office-type apps. Rather, we need to run costly high-end graphics that we cannot afford to re-license under the Mac OS. (Too many of the license agreements don't allow platform switches without rebuying...still) This is where BootCamp and Parallels come into play as both allow native operation of the applications on the Mac Intel platforms, rather than emulation as was required on the PowerPC chips.

[Chris Barton]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies! I see a Mac laptop in my future. When you purchased your Mac, who did you buy it from and how did you feel about the process?

My E-Machine is their top of the line computer and has suffered multiple software problems. We got it from Best Buy, which has been abysmal from a customer support and service standpoint. I have returned the computer to them twice for service under warranty. The first time they kept it for 6 weeks and them told me nothing was wrong with it and that they didn't have to do anything to it yet, all of my software and files were gone. It worked for about 4 months before going totally belly up again, wouldn't even start. I returned it and again after 6 weeks got the same story but, this time my files appeared intact. However, it did come back to me with a virus. Between all the PITA I've had with this machine I am ready to give the Mac a go...

[John Hemenway]

Directly from Apple. Price doesn't seem to vary that much. Mail order just like getting a hunk O' iron from Grizzly, just a bit lighter.

They offer a tiny educational discount if you happen to work or attend a school. Might be your time to sign up for that cabinet making class at the local community college! :) (I work at a CC)

[Jim Becker]

If and when I buy an Intel Mac, it will be direct from Apple as I have a corporate discount available...that strangely enough is meaningfully more than Professor Dr SWMBO's educational discount.

[John Shuk]

If and when I buy an Intel Mac, it will be direct from Apple as I have a corporate discount available...that strangely enough is meaningfully more than Professor Dr SWMBO's educational discount.

Jim,
My corporate discount was better than my wife Edu. discount as well. However I bought the extended coverage due to my past luck with computers and her discount was better on that side and it worked out better to use her's than mine.

I bought mine at the Apple store. Easy as that.

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

You guys are going to love this one. I purchased my first Mac in '84, shortly after their big ad during the super bowl. Because of work-related reasons, I started using a pc maybe 10 years ago. However, I still have a 9" screen Mac Classic (probably my 3rd Mac) along with an Apple Personal LaserWriter. I only use it to develop designs using Claris CAD. The computer will not die and I'll be heart-broken when it does.

[Jim Becker]

Malcolm, it sounds like your eyesight might go before that little 9" screen does...LOL! That would be considered a PDA these days if you could fit it in your pocket, at least...

[Art Mulder]

I still have a 9" screen Mac Classic (probably my 3rd Mac) along with an Apple Personal LaserWriter.

I bought a 9" Classic II way back in ... '92 I think. There was something very cool and simple about the old all-in-one design. There are times I still wish I had it -- but realistically, B+W and no ethernet jack would be a bit of a problem. I've got a 20" iMac at work now, which is great, but it doesn't seem quite as "cool" as my old Classic-II "Toaster".

What bugged me was eventually throwing out my HP Deskwriter printer. It was a 300dpi b+w inkjet, and it was in flawless condistion. Produced beautiful printouts, and as a home printer was very lightly used. But it only had an apple serial-printer connection, which has gone the way of the dinosaur. Really bugged me throwing out a perfectly good printer. But we'd upgraded the computer and it was no longer any use.

...

Chris, I echo the guys who advised buying straight from Apple. Note that one way you can save a few bucks (if you don't qualify for the discounts mentioned above) is by buying from their refurb store. Look for the link on the apple store web page (Lower left side). Cheaper than new, but come with full warranty, and you can still buy the AppleCare for them.

[Tim Morton]

You guys are going to love this one. I purchased my first Mac in '84, shortly after their big ad during the super bowl. Because of work-related reasons, I started using a pc maybe 10 years ago. However, I still have a 9" screen Mac Classic (probably my 3rd Mac) along with an Apple Personal LaserWriter. I only use it to develop designs using Claris CAD. The computer will not die and I'll be heart-broken when it does.

what OS are you running on it? OS 6.x?

[Tim Morton]

we have a great apple dealer here in vermont...smalldog.com

Great people and you might find them friendly and more knowledgeable than dealing direct with apple.

[glenn bradley]

Mac's have a good following because of limited quantity, high quality manufacturing. Everybody seems to make an IBM compatible PC, not so a Mac. However, load Linux on a no-name box and it's still terrible. Then again, load Windows on a great machine and it's still Windows.

A few of our Mac-heads at the University run Linux on their Dell platforms and have no complaints; others need the "white box".

[Art Mulder]

However, load Linux on a no-name box and it's still terrible.

I have found that Ubuntu Linux is the closest to the "It Just Works" experience of Mac OS-X of any Linux that I've tried. But I'd still recommend mac OS-X to most folks.

[Mike Cutler]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies! I see a Mac laptop in my future. When you purchased your Mac, who did you buy it from and how did you feel about the process?


Chris.
I purchased my 17" laptop from an Apple Store( Brick and Mortar), and I purchased my Dual G5 used from The Apple website store, it was one of the 2000 computers used in the Va. Tech super computer project. I also have an Apple 23" Cinema Display screen.

[Eric Mims]

The problem with most Windows based PCs is that resellers often put substandard components in them and likewise load it down with junk software. They are there to make money after all and it's a crowded market. A year later you go to upgrade your RAM and find your motherboard has a half gig limit or doesn't have a PCI-E slot for the cool new video card. That's because they put the cheapest board they could find in the computer, basically the board that is about to be obsolete. I'd think most woodworkers are DIY kind of people, and you can build your own PC using top of the line components for much much less. But I'm kinda old school, as I use Windows 2000 at home and have it installed on all of our office computers. I didn't even install XP on the work computers because the default interface was like dressing Windows 2000 up in a cheesy costume. We ended up reverting the interface back to 'classic' mode on the one machine that got XP! Win2000 isn't flashy at all (I guess like the PC nerd on the commercials), but if it runs Winamp, Firefox, Rhino3D, ACAD, and Photoshop and never crashes, then I'm not complaining. :)

good luck with whatever you get!

[Chris Barton]

I have been a Microsoft user since before windows and vividly remember cmp and dos but, I've never had problems with any machine like I've had with this one. I introduced my wife to to an Ipod as a gift last year and she seemed only mildly interested at the time but, has become an addict (much to the dismay of my wallet). Initially everything seemed to work OK but, then the problems began. The latest is the ipods no longer sync even though we have run every diagnostic on earth, uninstalled and reinstalled every piece of software, etc... Now the DVD player/recorder no longer works. This pos is like a bad stock investment, you chase it to the grave trying to make it work. I've been on vacation this week and I think I'll drive over to Circuit City today to look at the macs. If I buy it will be through the Apple website. My wife is on staff at Vanderbilt and I'm adjunct faculty at several universities and we can get the discount but, I have found that's not much, usually about $100. But, that would take the family out to dinner one night...

[Alex Shanku]

Wow!! WAY too much Mac love on this thread.

Supporters should answer these quesitons:

Why pay 2x as much for the same speed processor?

Why do the bulk of mac owners install microsoft software on their machine.

Why cant you play games on it.

Why the goofy one-button mouse

Pcs have infinitely more software than macs



Pcs are much more versitale

[Christopher Stahl]

Wow!! WAY too much Mac love on this thread.

Supporters should answer these quesitons:

Why pay 2x as much for the same speed processor?


Umm, I don't pay twice as much for the hardware. I can pay the equivalent amount for an iMac as you would a Dell with the fastest processors and hardware. My MacBookPro cost me no more than the IBM T41p Thinkpad I purchased before.



Why do the bulk of mac owners install microsoft software on their machine.

I had to install it because the University wrote software that was written for Windows. Otherwise, I wouldn't need it. It's not Apple's fault companies were one sided writing their software.

One other thing for you, Apple is also a hardware company. They give you an option to put whatever OS on it you want. Just like we buy Dell's, HPs and IBMs to run linux or BSD on. Apple was brilliant to do this. Now people have another choice of hardware to run their OSs on.




Why cant you play games on it.

There are plenty of games for Macs. Most of the top selling games are written for the Mac as well. If gaming is your thing, then don't buy a Mac.



Why the goofy one-button mouse

Don't need more than one. Just because you use a three button setup doesn't mean that is the best. It may be great for you, but you don't represent the majority.



Pcs have infinitely more software than macs

Once again, this is not Apple's problem. Software companies write software for what they want to.



Pcs are much more versitale

This is unsubstantiated. It may be for you, but once again, YOU don't represent the majority.

I don't see how making these statements could help this guy make a decision. They are more misleading than informative.

[Tim Morton]

Wow!! WAY too much Mac love on this thread.

Supporters should answer these quesitons:

Why pay 2x as much for the same speed processor?

Why do the bulk of mac owners install microsoft software on their machine.

Why cant you play games on it.

Why the goofy one-button mouse

Pcs have infinitely more software than macs



Pcs are much more versitale

because we know something you don't:D

My analogy of the day....using a mac is like the first sip from a nice hand blown glass filled with "bookers" and ice...compared to drinking warm flat keg beer from a plastic cup. On the surface they may both serve the same purpose...and i'm sure more stale keg beer is sold every day. But until you taste the smokey aromatic flavor of "bookers" as you hold it in your hands, and listen to the ice clink against the heavy glass you don't know what you are missing.

on that note...cheers and TGIF.;)

[Alex Shanku]

They are more misleading than informative.

Your retorts sounded much more like excuses than a reasonable defense.

Also, you are wrong, the multi-buttoned mouse user DOES represent the majority.

[Alex Shanku]

because we know something you don't:D

My analogy of the day....using a mac is like the first sip from a nice hand blown glass filled with "bookers" and ice...compared to drinking warm flat keg beer from a plastic cup. On the surface they may both serve the same purpose...and i'm sure more stale keg beer is sold every day. But until you taste the smokey aromatic flavor of "bookers" as you hold it in your hands, and listen to the ice clink against the heavy glass you don't know what you are missing.

on that note...cheers and TGIF.;)

Hehe..if you like bookers, give George T. Stagg a try. This year was a nice 140 proof batch.

I agree...TGIF!!!

[John Shuk]

Ryobi tools have alot more "ergonomic" features that professional grade tools. If you want it to work day in day out well what do you choose.

I know people who spend less on their PCs and then drop a couple of hundred bucks for all the latest diagnostic and anti virus spyware blah blah blah. I feel I'm ahead with my Mac.

[Chris Barton]

I'm not trying to rally a shouting match between the Mac folks and the PC folks by starting this thread. I have always been a PC guy in the past but, between all the craziness I've been through with Windows XP, this latest PC, the added expense of having to run anti spyware and virusware, constant security threats, upgrades, and software conflicts for a computer that I basicly use for my digital camera, surfing the web and the occasional letter that the new Mac commercials started to make a heck of a lot of sense. So, the mac is a very real possibility in my near future.

I took the offending PC to an independent PC repair service this morning and told them to fix it if they could but, not to run up a bill of more than $200. I have a Canon Pixma MP780 printer that will work with the Mac so, a nice little Mac Book would be all that I need. I will wait to pull the trigger until I hear back from the repair shop. But, even if they are successful I will probably go with the Mac anyway. I'm at a point in my life where time is more valuable than money. I can make more money, I can't make more time...

[Art Mulder]

Wow!! WAY too much Mac love on this thread.

Supporters should answer these quesitons:

Why pay 2x as much for the same speed processor?

Why do the bulk of mac owners install microsoft software on their machine.

Why cant you play games on it.

Why the goofy one-button mouse

Pcs have infinitely more software than macs

Pcs are much more versitale
Alex,

As has already been pointed out, your post contains a few errors.
I will just address the points that haven't already been covered.

- The current mouse (http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/) supplied with mac computers (at least, those that come with a mouse) is not a one-button mouse, and hasn't been for at least a year. Furthermore, if you prefer a 3-button scroll mouse then by all means, buy one and plug one in. I did, on both my wife's Mac Mini, and my iMac at work. It just works. No fiddling with drivers, no fiddling with menus or control panels. Just plug it in, and it works.

- Comments like "PCs are much more versatile" is merely an opinion, hardly a fact.
In your opinion, the PC is more versatile. In my opinion, the Mac is far more versatile. As I already mentioned, I run a scroll-wheel mouse. Just plugged it in, and it worked. I also have a digital camera. Again, no drivers, no messing with control panels. The software that came with it? Don't bother. Just plug it in, and it works. iPhoto pops up and sucks in your photos. My Canon printer? Ditto. just plug it in, and it works. Wanna watch a DVD? Sure, just stick it in and it just works.

But that is just my opinion.

What is a fact, on the other hand, is that in two years of ownership, my kids have never managed to install any Spyware on my wife's mac, nor have they infected it with a virus. It has been almost completely headache free. She writes email, does wordprocessing, surf's the web. I run SketchUp! and do the household budget. It does all that we need.

At work, we have 50 or so Mac's on our lab network. In the past two years we have had precisely TWO instances of a Mac having a virus. Both times it was the same person, with the same virus -- a Word Macro virus that they got from a colleague who had a Windows PC. I can assure you that there have been far more than two instances of windows machines infected with viruses and requiring much work to fix.

Now the question of software. Yes, you are right. There are far more games for PCs than Macs. Yes, you are right, there is no doubt far more software in general for PCs than for Macs. No argument. But Chris is looking for a Mac, so I would presume that he has already done his homework and concluded that the Mac does support the software he needs.

And I think I'll stop there.

...art

ps: And in fact, I wrote this on a Linux machine.

[Christopher Stahl]

Your retorts sounded much more like excuses than a reasonable defense.

Also, you are wrong, the multi-buttoned mouse user DOES represent the majority.

You misread the info then, I don't need to make excuses nor do I need to defend Apple, let alone making any excuses or defend myself against your comments. Apple's OS and hardware is capable of speaking for itself.

Clearly you prefer Windows and that's fine. I am in a position where I manage many different systems and have an idea what it takes and manage them, so I can state pros and cons of managing each. Chris clearly is interested in an Apple product and requested information from those of us who have actually touched one.

Actually, you don't represent the majority of those who have tried the single button mouse. You are simply stating that you are not comfortable with it. That's your opinion. I can simply do everything with a touchpad and single button mouse that you can with trackpoint/touchpad and three buttons.

Simply put, it's best not to come in make opinionated claims trying to make the other feels stupid because they use Macs. He requested opinions on Macs and that's what he got. He didn't request unsubstantiated flaming material.

[Don C Peterson]

I was a dedicated Apple fan for years, I had the original Mac (I actually almost bought a Lisa, but then caught wind of the Mac and decided to wait unitl I could get my hands on one). I made the switch to Wintel in 1998 and haven't looked back which is still the source of much consternation within my family, most of whom fall solidly in the Apple camp...

Initially my defection was because of work, but the more familiar I became with Windows, the more I liked it. I certainly didn't miss the difficulty and expense of upgrading Macs and the lack of software.

I know that Apple has at least partly addressed some of these issues, but it should tell you something when a large portion of the software that you want to run must be run in a Windows emmulation... I know that I have NEVER EVER needed or even wanted to buy Mac emmulation software for my Windows machine.

My biggest argument with Mac owners generally (my brother specifically) is their continued harping on how insecure Windows is compared to the Mac. This is not true at all, and has actually never been true. The truth is that Apple simply represents too small a market for most hackers to bother with. http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/index.php/id;1809393979;fp;2;fpid;2

Oh, I almost forgot, Isn't "Top of the line Emachine" is an oxymoron? Herein lies most of the problems with Windows machines. People don't buy quality components and then the machine is flaky and Microsoft gets the blame. It's like buying all your tools at Harbor Freight and then cursing your workbench for the lousy results!

[Chris Barton]

Hi Don,

I didn't pick this machine based upon price. Last year when we purchased the machine it had the highest rating by both Cnet and Consumer Reports as a home use machine. E-machines are made by Gateway and continue to be highly rated. I am glad you have been pleased wtih your PCs. However, I have not had nearly as smooth an experience over my 21 years of PC use. To me it doesn't matter that Macs are unlikely to get viruses because of their relatively small numbers, it's the outcome that I'm interested in.

PS: welcome to SMC


Oh, I almost forgot, Isn't "Top of the line Emachine" is an oxymoron? Herein lies most of the problems with Windows machines. People don't buy quality components and then the machine is flaky and Microsoft gets the blame. It's like buying all your tools at Harbor Freight and then cursing your workbench for the lousy results!

[Don C Peterson]

Hi Don,

I didn't pick this machine based upon price. Last year when we purchased the machine it had the highest rating by both Cnet and Consumer Reports as a home use machine. E-machines are made by Gateway and continue to be highly rated. I am glad you have been pleased wtih your PCs. However, I have not had nearly as smooth an experience over my 21 years of PC use. To me it doesn't matter that Macs are unlikely to get viruses because of their relatively small numbers, it's the outcome that I'm interested in.

PS: welcome to SMC

I learned a long time ago that Cnet is not terribly objective in many of its reviews, and I learned even longer ago that CR is a terrible source of good information when it comes to electronics in general. CR is impartial, but they invariably focus on the bells and whistles and terrible at evaluating stability and reliability, that is if they try to evaluate them at all. At least IMAO.

Re PS: Thanks, SMC is a great resource, I'm glad I found it. I've only recently been able to feed my woodworking bug. I was infected at an early age, and never really got it out of my system, I just couldn't afford the tools or the time. Now that I can, I've spent way too much time and money feeding my habit, but I'm happier than a Marine with a warm machine gun barrel.

[Tim Morton]

I was a dedicated Apple fan for years, I had the original Mac (I actually almost bought a Lisa, but then caught wind of the Mac and decided to wait unitl I could get my hands on one). I made the switch to Wintel in 1998 and haven't looked back which is still the source of much consternation within my family, most of whom fall solidly in the Apple camp...

Initially my defection was because of work, but the more familiar I became with Windows, the more I liked it. I certainly didn't miss the difficulty and expense of upgrading Macs and the lack of software.

I know that Apple has at least partly addressed some of these issues, but it should tell you something when a large portion of the software that you want to run must be run in a Windows emmulation... I know that I have NEVER EVER needed or even wanted to buy Mac emmulation software for my Windows machine.

My biggest argument with Mac owners generally (my brother specifically) is their continued harping on how insecure Windows is compared to the Mac. This is not true at all, and has actually never been true. The truth is that Apple simply represents too small a market for most hackers to bother with. http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/index.php/id;1809393979;fp;2;fpid;2

Oh, I almost forgot, Isn't "Top of the line Emachine" is an oxymoron? Herein lies most of the problems with Windows machines. People don't buy quality components and then the machine is flaky and Microsoft gets the blame. It's like buying all your tools at Harbor Freight and then cursing your workbench for the lousy results!

and you started by saying Not to be a troll, but...

then continued to troll...wasn't that an oxymoron:)

[Mike Cutler]

Easy goes it boyz'.

In the end they are both plastic boxes hooked up to a monitor. I use both Mac's and PC's. There are things I like and dislike about both. How 'bout we focus on helping Chris" Make the switch" as easily as possible. A quick look at the discussions boards on the Apple website quickly establishes that not all Mac owners are doing the "happy dance".

Chris is looking for a reliable computer that he doesn't have to mess with all the time to keep it operating. The Mac fits the bill perfectly. I think you will be very happy with a Mac Chris.

I would recomend that you get extra ram installed with the machine. The Mac's can boast some great numbers for system speed, but they are ram intensive. Third party ram for the Mac's has been problematic, Even the aftermarket ram from Kensington, who makes the ram for apple, has created problems.

It doesn't sound as if you are a heavy duty internet gamer Chris, so the stock video card should be fine.

One thing to consider is that there are a lot of aftermarket peripherals available for the Mac now by third party vendors. Unfortunately though this does not extend to processor boards, and video cards. Apple seems to have a defacto proprietary right to these components. There aren't a lot of options on video card upgrades. More of an issue with desktop systems.

The Dell and gateway laptops are "modular" in design, and are easy to disassemble and work on. The Apple laptops are not. This is especially a problem with the DVD optical drive. If a disc gets stuck in there. The entire laptop has to be taken apart to manually extract the disc.

Hooking up to an external monitor presents a little challenge. The Apple's do not have a VGA out jack, and the connector that appears to be a DVI out is a proprietary Apple ADC connector. You will need an ADC to DVI, or VGA connector. My Mac Laptop came with an ADC to VGA adapter, but I had to buy an ADC to DVI adapter.

There is a litle more cost to a Mac, this is true, it's not 2X though as has been stated, when you compare features and performance across the board.

I use Microsoft office for the Mac on my Mac's. It's a great suite. It's the only Microsoft software that I installed.

You will probably want an aftermarket browser. IE 5.0 for the Mac is no longer supported by Microsoft, and the Safari browser is a little anemic, and isn't completely compatible with all of the the different video software, ie. Real Player, Windows Media, etc and will shut down on you. FireFox is about the easiest to load and view online video with.

Unfortunately the PC's ship with better usable video editing and photo editing software than Mac's. Apple really needs to close this gap. Their "iLife" programs are very remedial, and klugy.

As for the one button two button thing. Non issue. I don't know anyone that uses the stock keyboard and mouse that came with their computer PC or Mac. Logitechs entire line of products are Mac compatable. You can use as many buttons or trackballs as you desire.

The Mac will take a little getting used to.

Good Luck.

[Chris Barton]

Thanks Mike! Fortunately I have this old HP unit as a back up computer that I can use until my E-machines unit is either repaired or declared "non compos mentos." One of these machines will remain in place to service our PC centric needs. I am also fortunate that Nashville has an Apple store (I just found it on the Apple site) and I can go over and look at the MacBook. All of the point made by you and other about the pros and cons have been taken to heart. Considering that I own two PCs outright and have a PC laptop supplied by my employer seems to be enough to make sure that I can address my PC needs. I mostly use my home computer to do things like surf the web, look at my photos and answer email. I'm sure that just about any computer can do that but, it then becomes a question of falicity. A PC can do all of that easily (except in the case of the afore mentioned e-mach.) but, to do so safely requires anti virus, anti spyware, and firewall software to really do so safely. Additionally, I found out the hard way that McAfee security suite is 1) not very secure [found a virus that eluded it using AVG], 2) not very user friendly and downright hostile to some operating systems and 3) expensive. I'm not a computer "tinkerer" so parsimony is my goal. I am heading over to the Apple store today to look at them. Another plus is that the Apple store offers free courses on all of their software for anyone that's interested and the iLife class is tomorrow... I will be there.

Thanks Again,

Chris

[Mike Cutler]

That's the best way to do it Chris. That way you can "test drive" the various models.

If possible have the Apple folks show you how to "mount" a new Drive or Application.

Installing new software on the Mac is easy, once you understand the little show that goes on on the desktop. It will look very different from loading programs into a Windows PC. Not harder, nor easier, just different.

Also have them show you how to "Force Quit" an Application using keyboard shortcuts.

The iLife suite, as I stated, is a little remedial in some of it's functionality. iTunes is probably the most well known,and used of the suite. Some folks hate this program, and I don't know why. It's a great music library cataloging system.
There is an iPhoto app for working with didgital imaging, but I honestly think you will be happier with Photoshop LE.
I never used iDVD or IMovie. Toast is a better burner program, and I'm not into movies.

I would still connect to the net through a router. It is true that there are less malicious programs targeted at the Mac, but you should still keep a hardware firewall.

Both times I have had a Mac go south on me were when I tried to load Norton Utilities programs. Take that statement for what it is.

If you decide that you want to share a monitor with your PC and Mac, and need a KVM switch. Get the one from Dr. Bott. The Belkin series used to have a little problem with the Apple displays. Not sure if they fixed the problems yet.

Just a few random thoughts comcerning Mac's.

Mike.

[Chris Barton]

Thanks Mike! I just got back from the Apple store and while there I tried a MacBook and WOW what a different experience! The 13.3" screen with a gig of RAM looks like it would be perfect for me. I almost bought it on the spot since they will honor the educational discount in store and I can also get the extended service package for $149. I don't know if the extended service will be necessary but, for $1,200 it's in the same ball park as "premium" PC laptops and is WAY cooler. I will attend the iLife class tomorrow and probably close the deal then. Thanks again for everyone's input!

[Art Mulder]

tried a MacBook ... The 13.3" screen with a gig of RAM looks like it would be perfect for me. I almost bought it on the spot since they will honor the educational discount in store and I can also get the extended service package for $149. I don't know if the extended service will be necessary but, ...

Chris,

Where I work, we buy the AppleCare 3yr extended warranty on virtually all Mac laptops. Laptops get carted around, dropped into bags, banged on tables, bumped into (inside their bags) and just generally beat up. We find it to be worthwhile.

Personally I would advocate for 1.5-2Gig of Ram, if the price increment isn't too much. More RAM is almost always rewarding. At the very least, find out what it will cost to add this later. Note that with laptops (PC or Mac) upgrading the RAM usually involves THROWING AWAY the ram you have and buying higher-capacity RAM, because most machines do not come with empty RAM slots.

[Christopher Stahl]

The iLife suite, as I stated, is a little remedial in some of it's functionality. iTunes is probably the most well known,and used of the suite. Some folks hate this program, and I don't know why. It's a great music library cataloging system.
There is an iPhoto app for working with didgital imaging, but I honestly think you will be happier with Photoshop LE.
I never used iDVD or IMovie. Toast is a better burner program, and I'm not into movies.

Mike.

Hey Mike, just to sort of add something here. iPhoto is not for photo post processing like Photoshop, it's for photo organization and sharing. This would also include cool features like being able to order prints and photo albums. Photoshop would be a compliment to iPhoto.

iDVD and iMovie are for creating home movies and other types of multimedia. These tools are quite powerful and probably wouldn't be considered remedial by those who use them.

I can certainly see how using iPhoto for post processing and iDVD for copying CDs and DVDs would be a problem, that's not what they are designed to do. Use Disk Utility for burning.

[Chris Barton]

I bought the MacBook 2 gig hz and attended the beginners class today. Seems very intuitive and is way cool. I got the white version. So far so good! Again thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions and insight.

[Tim Morton]

I bought the MacBook 2 gig hz and attended the beginners class today. Seems very intuitive and is way cool. I got the white version. So far so good! Again thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions and insight.

most excellent...walking over and ading another chalk mark to the "switcher board"...welcome to the other side:)

Any questions at all...there seems to be a wealth of mac knowledge here at the creek.

good luck with your new friend.:cool:

[Mike Cutler]

I bought the MacBook 2 gig hz and attended the beginners class today. Seems very intuitive and is way cool. I got the white version. So far so good! Again thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions and insight.

Cool, very cool.:cool:

That's a nice l'il Mac, and I mean that in a big way.;)

[Jerry Clark]

FINALLY, after going through a virus attack, losing a hard drive, fighting off hackers, upgrading all my software, installing fire-walls, being threatened with being cut-off by my email provider, and a host of other problems...

I have fixed my computer...and NOW it works exactly the way I want it to! :D

[Dan Lyke]

Chris, my household has a Macintosh (my software development machine and right now primary computer), a Windows machine ('cause I'm a computer geek, and sometimes things only run on Windows, although right now Flight Simulator and TurboTax is all we use it for), and three Ubuntu Linux machines. My sweety used to be a Mac user, now she's (of her own volition) an Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com/) user (and even runs QuickBooks under Crossover).

To me the Macintosh is another computer. Yeah, i like it better than Windows, but that's not saying much. I use it for the same reason I've used Windows in the past: Writing software for it pays the bills.

Ubuntu Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com/) on the other hand... well... it's kind of like that muscle car you always wanted. Sure, occasionally you've got to poke under the hood and tweak the carburetor a little bit, but it's fast, sexy, and gets you where you want to go. Takes a little re-learning, because you'll be using different applications which have their own quirks, but once you're there you'll probably wonder what took you so long. And if you want to jack it up a bit and mount a blower on the intakes, metaphorically at least, the bolt holes are all there.

And you can try it out on your computers without committing to anything. Just download the "Live" CD, boot your existing computers with that, open up some documents, edit them, play with things, and if you like it then you can install it, if not you're out nothing but a little time.

Windows is cheap particle board shelving. The Mac is some good solid pine shelving. Linux is a hundred board feet of cherry, and Ubuntu Linux is that cherry packaged up and waiting for you to make it into the perfect accessory that fits you.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Please let me know if you made a similar change and how you like it.
I have seriously considered going with a linnux OS but the cost of a Mac is the single reason I won't go that way.
I build my own and friend's systems using ASUS main boards, Samsung memory, AMD CPUs, Western Digital drives, promise controller cards, and LaCie monitors. it is way - way - way cheaper to build 'em yourself. Ya get a remarkably better machine. It is supremely easy too, no instructions needed the parts just plug into each other. Really, they simply plug into each other.

I cheap out on video cards because I'm not a gamer.

The result is a flawlessly solid system that never gives me the blue screen of death. But because I use MicroCrash OS I am subject to all the worlds viri, worms and spyware.

Wnen you buy a PC from a company like Dell HP Gateways etc you get a machine that was designed and biult by a purchasing agent seeking the cheapest crap they can. Then the poor guys in technical have to figure out how to make all those crummy mismatched components work together.

You won't ever find an ASUS main board in a Dell, Gateways or HP.

[Tim Morton]

I have seriously considered going with a linnux OS but the cost of a Mac is the single reason I won't go that way.
I build my own and friend's systems using ASUS main boards, Samsung memory, AMD CPUs, Western Digital drives, promise controller cards, and LaCie monitors. it is way - way - way cheaper to build 'em yourself. Ya get a remarkably better machine. It is supremely easy too, no instructions needed the parts just plug into each other. Really, they simply plug into each other.

I cheap out on video cards because I'm not a gamer.

The result is a flawlessly solid system that never gives me the blue screen of death. But because I use MicroCrash OS I am subject to all the worlds viri, worms and spyware.

Wnen you buy a PC from a company like Dell HP Gateways etc you get a machine that was designed and biult by a purchasing agent seeking the cheapest crap they can. Then the poor guys in technical have to figure out how to make all those crummy mismatched components work together.

You won't ever find an ASUS main board in a Dell, Gateways or HP.


Lots of people are finding ways to install MacOS onto thier Intel boards these days...might be a fun project fo ya:cool:

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Lots of people are finding ways to install MacOS onto thier Intel boards these days...might be a fun project fo ya:cool:

Now there is an idea !! I understand that that Mac has a software that makes a nice and sexy transfer of all your Windows based stiff over onto the Mac OS. I wonder if Mac has a way to run all my older legacy DOS applications that have forced me to get a second PC just to run things like Cadkey.