First Ball and Claw Legs

[Ralph Dobbertin]

Folks: Am hoping I can get some constructive criticism on these first two legs I am working on. I'm at a stage where I am hoping that a different set of eyes might be useful to try and get them a little better looking. They are rough carved to basic shape, and I have not sanded yet. Still working out the kinks and proportions.

I will carve the knee portion as well, but after I get the ball and claw in a satisfactory state.

Please let me know what you think and how they might be improved or changed on the next ones.

Thanks

Ralph

[Ralph Dobbertin]

Hit the wrong button and submitted. Here are the pics.

[John Timberlake]

I think they look pretty good. In the third photo, the one of the right looks like the ankle is a bit larger than the one on the left. I always try to get the ankles and the middle of the leg to look smaller. I think it make them look more refined. The actual ball and claw look good.

[Carl Eyman]

You said you were going to carve the knees. Does that mean round out the center line above3 the centeer toe from the ankle all the way up past the knee? I think you should. In my view the ankle should be round in cross section and that curve should carry up the front of the leg to the knee.

I like the crispness in your toes. The balls are a bit flat to my taste, but maybe you want them that way - a matter of preference. By flat I mean the vertical diameter is less than the horizontal.

You might tell us what sort of a piece they are intended for. If the piece is light and dainty these may be a bit heavy, but if the piece is stout, they may be quite appropriate.

A fine start. To be proud of.

[Joel Ficke]

My observations are much like Carl's -- it would be helpful to know what ball and claw foot you are trying to carve - Newport, Pennsylvania, Boston etc. and what type of piece it's going on.

Two observations independent of that. First, I find it helpful to finish all rasping and shaping of the leg before doing any carving. It just makes visulization and blending with carving chisels easier. Second, don't use sandpaper next. Rather use a small (6") half-round file to clean up the chisel marks. Much easier and faster (and better results too) than sandpaper.

Finally, adding tension to the carving will do a lot for it. By tension I mean good clean definition of the thin skin between talons, turning the back talons so they appear 'under load' from holding the ball etc etc. These are subtle, but they do make a world of difference.

A good start though -- keep up the great work!

[Ralph Dobbertin]

Thanks for the responses so far. Very helpful, and yes I will round out the ankles...should have done it already, just have not gotten to it. These will be for a Philly style Low and Highboy I am making. Trying to work with Gene Landons Lowboy from his site http://www.oldemill.com/pub-drawings.html

Material is Walnut

[Calvin Hobbs]

Ralph,

I also think this is more than a nice start and I totally echo what Joel says - he is right on about the rounding and the tension that can be added.

I like the flat ball, looks very Philadelphia when viewed from the front. When you get the ankles rounded, put them all beside each other and refine them so there's no doubt they came from the same animal (that doesn't mean they will be perfectly identical). Cal

[Joel Ficke]

Ralph, knowing it's Philly is very helpful. I'm just putting shellac on some Philly highboy B&C legs now. I'll take some good pics for you tonight showing the transition from B&C to leg and the 'tension' I was talking about earlier. These are from Gene's highboy class last year. Let me know if you have any questions after you see them.

[Joel Ficke]

Back again Ralph. I hope this is legal on SMC, but someone will tell me if it's not. Here's two pages scanned from American Furniture at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. There's a section (see pages #s in scan) that has page after page of B&C examples from chairs, chests etc broken down by geographical region. For my money this section is worth the price of the book all on it's own. Anyway, the first scan is Philly legs from highboy/lowboy chests

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n113/jficke/Gratz/File0001.jpg

The next scan is one of many from Philly chairs

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n113/jficke/Gratz/File0002.jpg

As you can see, there's a fair amount of variation just within the Philly section and mind-boggling variation when you go to other areas especially Newport.

I think it's best to look at originals for guidance when carving, but I wasn't able to find too many pics at 'odd' angles in the books I have, so here are a couple from a Philly highboy that's just about complete. Take these for what they are -- my interpretation of the original (and no bad comments about finishing gang -- I'm right in the middle of that -- still need to rub out and glaze.) I hope they help.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n113/jficke/Gratz/BnC_1.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n113/jficke/Gratz/BnC_2.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n113/jficke/Gratz/BnC_3.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n113/jficke/Gratz/BnC_4.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n113/jficke/Gratz/BnC_5.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n113/jficke/Gratz/BnC_6.jpg

[Ralph Dobbertin]

Joel: You are unbelievable. Thanks for all this effort. Great work on your cabriole legs. Wow to the museum images.

Quick question. What kind of rasps do you use to get the legs so smooth if you are not sanding?

Great carving talent. I hope mine come out half as well.

Thanks a ton
Ralph

[Joel Ficke]

Thanks Ralph. I'm fairly new to this carving thing, so I'm sure the veterans here will point out things I should change. Being new though helps me relate to what you are going through. The more I look at your photos, after you shape the ankle and leg mid-section and clean up chisel marks, you'll have some nice work, so don't give up hope.

As far as the rasps, for major shaping I use a #49 and bastard file. To clean up details on the B&C themselves, just get a fine cut 6" half-round file (Oldemill has these if you can't find them elsewhere - just ask Bess for the file to clean up B&C chisel marks). 99% of the work is complete with these and then finish up sanding with 180 grit or so. I'm not saying sanding won't work without rasps, it's just not as fast and doesn't shape contours like a file will.