Oliver 20C lathe Updated

[Brian Weick]

Update: Oliver 20C lathe-year, approximately 1909 serial # 890
I never got back to the site and updated the answer to my question from last year.Well~ I did it and bit the bullet.
She has been in my shop for over a year now. The Oliver 20C can do 20" over the carriage and 24" over the bed up to 106" in length and 84"and on the outboard end-depending on the gap in you're floor~LOL.. It has a pivot headstock and offset turning along with the tail stock. weight 4,480lbs - getting it into my shop-"priceless" I had 2 , 6000 lb floor jacks and she moved very nice , getting out of RIT was a lot of maneuvering however. I have converted the 4 step flat belt to an s&K dbl v belt assembly - very smooth! Also updated the electronics-It had a 3hp Dalton induction motor, I added the Yawsaka 10hp vfd digital readout with all the bells and whistles- reverse, slow start up and infinite speed control.0-2500rpms.
the headstock is being removed, possibly this week - it is being converted from Babbitt bearings (they have to go- to sloppy(grease) and to much maintenance- they work fine, but to much maintenance and mess as i said before) going with a sealed IDC ball bearing setup is the way I am going. The shaft will be milled down from 2-1/4" down to 2.165 on the entire 30" shaft. This will not affect the 1-7/8" inboard threads or the 2-1/4" outboard threads for plate attachments as they will stop the machining up to the outboard threads ear stop. This will keep the overall appearance of the headstock and have a very smooth and reliable tolerance with shaft movement and functionality. I was contemplating having the ears on the headstock cnc'ed down to accept a flat plate and pillow blocks but that changes the whole look of the 1909 lathe- I have seen it done on an American lathe on owwm - OK - but it does not heed an original appearance of the lathe.
It has a plate attachment for the carriage for a 3-1/4hp porter cable router to do fluted columns or any other design desired. An indexing plate will be permanently fixed to the shaft and can be adjusted in 1 degree increments/w locking on the index plate instead of pin whole- I wanted an infinite capability- not 5 degree steps- and I didn't want any movement in the indexing when in positioning. The carriage has interchangeable carving tools to accommodate any cutting that is desired.
I am currently in the process of having a linkage between the carriage and the headstock to accommodate spiral flutes/rope twist and the like in 1' increments depending on the length of a wood columns. When this final step is done it is being resurfaced and repainted in a battleship Grey. It is an extreme pleasure to do work on this lathe - Oliver Machinery will give you a very high end result ~which is what I was after. I a want to polish the exposed wheys/knobs-etc- to a high mirror finish- if any of you fellow woodworkers or machinist know of what to use- that would be greatly appreciated.
happy turning
Brian :):rolleyes:

[TYLER WOOD]

Good Gosh that thing is huge!! I like you style though. If I had the room I think I would try the same thing. I actually would probably enjoy getting the machine going that the trill of seeing it finished. I enjoy the work more thatn the finished prdouct.

[Paul Engle]

Brian .... insert drool here.....more..... and more here..... I just can't stop drooling after reading the spec update.....:D . are the knobs bakalite? polish with tripoli brown , then rouge > white , then ruby . steel wool on the ways, mounted on a wheel use drill , make a jig to hold then do like a watch makers burnish on watch frames ( older Elgin is famous for) look at a pic of the Spirit of St Louis , the cowling is done that way , one spot , move polish, move, polish etc , I have seen overlap and border to border both look really cool.

[Brett Baldwin]

Those are going to be some humongous toothpicks.:D Sounds like you are bringing that thing into the modern age in style.

[Brian Weick]

Yes - It is massive lathe and I debated on getting it because of it's size but everything worked out far better than I expected. Today the headstock came off,babbitts melted out, cleaned up the shaft and the headstock-sending it along with the tail stock to the machinist tomorrow so it will be aligned perfectly with the live end of the tail stock- it's being put on a horizontal cnc mill to have the ears bored out and updated SFK dbl sealed ball bearings put in , the spindle shaft is being shaved slightly to 2.165 to allow for the ID of the bearings. It was a little difficult finding the write bearings because the top shell for the babbitts is just a little under 1/2" thick as far as the wall is concerned, but my machinist found the perfect bearings with an OD of 3.365 - he told me it's going to be a very smooth running machine-the bearings have a 21,000lb static load capacity- I don't think my 106" x 24" staved wood columns are something to worry about as far as weight is concerned and the thrust threshold is 1100 lbs and they were ideal bearings for this application. The replacement bearings on the ball bearing headstock's oliver made and produced after 1928,29 are around $2000.00 and up -yipes. My bearings didn't cost nearly what these are. I have talked with some fellow Oliver lathe owners with models -25 /26ac/20-b/c 's and an 18 ~ 2 of whom had the bearing well cnc'ed to accept a more standard fitting and it cost them far less than buying them from Eagle machinery, this way~ if for some strange reason the bearings go- they will not be that expensive to replace, I would do the same. I could not believe the cost of the replacements- I thought they where mistaken but I spoke with rich from Eagle Machinery- they were write!
I'll be posting more pictures and info on the next update - the carriage/spindle linkage for the twisted rope. and after that- the paint job.
happy turning:)
Brian

[Brian Weick]

The wheels on the carriage or steel- everything is steel there is not one oz of plastic on this lathe~ what should I use to polish the bed wheys and the wheels before it gets a paint job?
Thank you
Brian

[Brian Weick]

Brian .... insert drool here.....more..... and more here..... I just can't stop drooling after reading the spec update.....:D . are the knobs bakalite? polish with tripoli brown , then rouge > white , then ruby . steel wool on the ways, mounted on a wheel use drill , make a jig to hold then do like a watch makers burnish on watch frames ( older Elgin is famous for) look at a pic of the Spirit of St Louis , the cowling is done that way , one spot , move polish, move, polish etc , I have seen overlap and border to border both look really cool.



Updates on the progress of the Oliver 20C will be in the "General woodworking & Power tools" Forum for those that want to see the updates.
You all have a wonderful weekend and Happy turning:)
Regards,
Brian

[Curt Fuller]

To me, Oliver lathes are the definition of what "Made in America" once stood for. They just don't make things like that anymore, in America or anywhere else.

[Brian Weick]

Curt,
How did you fit that in you're basement ???????????:eek: Must of been a hectic day-hmmmmm, just kidding- I know what that is ~ it's the Almighty prehistoric monster, known as the da,da,da, drum roll "The #18" the almighty Goliath of a lathe if there ever was one. I think that it was used by the navy for their masts- 60' in length I believe? That would have been something to not only see in action - but to have the chance to actually turn on it- can you imagine that , that would have been an experience I would have never forgoten ~ that would be some serious stock between the tail stock and headstock. I don't belive it was used for making pool cues???? LOL
Anyways, thanks for you're interest and it's nice to know good people that appreciate woodworking and the like~ you have a great weekend- I'll being having updates as things move along.
Happy Turning:)
Regards,
Brian

[Kaptan J.W. Meek]

I'm in the process of "re-furbing" an Oliver #51.. Hope mine comes out as well as yours.. Anyway.. as far as polishing that bed.. If it's really rusty, or pitted.. You might as well have it resurfaced.. Since you seem to have a good machine shop access, that shouldn't be a problem.. If it's just surface rust, you can go with the "navel-jelly" process, and follow up with a random orbital sander, 150 grit, then 220 grit, and finally a 320 grit, and just keep on polishing from there.. You can get it to look like chrome if you want to do that much work.. but usually the 320 on the RO sander will do just fine.. Wire wheels on a hand held grinder can be substitued for the 150 grit, if it's not rusted too much. Good luck!!..

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Brian, that is one Honey of a lathe!!:eek: Looks like you'v done yourself Proud!!:) Congrats!

[Brian Weick]

Very nice lathe ~ those 51's - some came with a carriage- did your's? As far as rust~ there was not 1 shred of rust on this lathe-it was very well taken care of by the Rochester Institute of Technology. It needs to be buffed out to a shine, there are a few minor pits in the bed ways, very minor, but I do want to address that and clean the whole thing up. I just don't want to take to much off of the surface- that's all.
So what year and type is you're 51 - look forward to seeing some pics of you're lathe, if you can put them up on the forum - I would really like to see it the progress:) , it's a lot of work , but well worth all of the time and money put into it. The "Oliver" lathes are very well sought after, just by the name alone, there machinery speaks volumes of quality as far as their lathes go, including the 280 saws/36 band saws and jointer's- the planers- so-so- depended on the year it was made. It was the helical head that really improved the planers that oliver acquired back in the early 1900's,, although another individual I spoke with said they had there problems as well. But I implicitly trust the name brand~ just have to be cautious of the lemons that were produced and what years they were made.
any how, enjoy rebuilding that great piece of "Oliver" machinery.
Happy turning
Regards,
Brian:rolleyes:

[Brian Weick]

Thank you Chris,
All the updates on the progress are going to be in the general woodworking tools forum. It is a project that has to be completed to bring it up to the modern era and then some. It is well worth the investment of time and money put into refurbishing this lathe. It really is something to just look at , let alone use that does it every time I hit that switch ~ It really isn't that bad all the way around as far as refurbishments and updates to her. It would be different if it was in a barn and rusted beyond belief- if it was me- I don't have that kind of time to put into it if that was the case. the only amount of time I would be willing to put into a Pattern lathe, of that condition , if it was in horrible condition,rust wise, and as long as it could be accomplished within a reasonable budget would be either the #18 or the #26AC - all 8500 lbs worth- (26ac) that is one massive lathe I admire very much. The #18 is nothing more than a stretched 20A/B/or C limousine with a 32" turning radius and longer bed leg th, customers choice as far as that went. Well, And maybe 5 to 5 carriages- "holly cow" look what the navy did with it , purchased #18 with a 60' or so bed length- now that's a big piece of stock between the centers- must have been some sight ,let alone- working on it. The #26AC with it's massive sliding bed and the 32" turning radius is absolutely huge. There is a linked carriage to the business head of headstock, half nut assembly, lock it in and watch it do it's business.
I hope you and your's have a great weekend and Happy Turning:)
Regards,
Brian

[Brian Weick]

You machinist out there can appreciate this piece of equipment- so detailed and rare . it's on ebay currently and is going to end within a few days. I don't know anything about this lathe only that there are no more that a handful that were produced. Hyperlink below :D

http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Goyen-Lathe-Ornamental-Turning_W0QQitemZ200086511280QQcategoryZ13876QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem

Happy Turning
Brian:rolleyes:

[Brian McInturff]

I started watching it after someone posted it over on WoW. If someone gets it for 100 grand it's still a good deal though with everything it has. I'd love to just go look at it and see someone operate it. OT really intriques me to the point I bought some books on the subject. Just to realize unless I win the lottery I'll never have one. Still nice to think and dream about though. I am going to try the one mentioned in the AAW mag. Probably buy the kit and cut my own MDF. So hows Ollie coming along?
Brian

[Brian Weick]

Hey Brian,
If I owned that lathe- it wouldn't be used at all. It is more less a show case piece and If somthing broke on it or was damaged on it I think I would end up on the top floor in a mental hospital ,constricted in a straight jacket and writing on the wall with crayons between my toes ~ repeatedly" you idiot"- LOL
The Oliver LAthe- The restoration is in process- heading back to my shop today to continue stripping her down. I am taking the legs off today so I can ground down the very bottom square leg base and the upper rim where it meets the bed. I want this area to shine like chrome. The bed is getting grind down all along the bottom length as well and polished.
Everything else is getting painted hunter green with the exception of the turning screw handles for the carriage

[Brian McInturff]

Brian,
Your place will definitely be on my list of places to visit when I get a chance to make it to NY. That is one Awesome lathe and the Oliver family would be proud of you. They may have even adopted you:D !
Brian

[Brian Weick]

There is only 19 hrs left - hasn't budged since bidder 8, ~ 3 days ago but I think there will be more activity in the last 10 min of the auction. It is going to be interesting to see the final price on this lathe.
Happy Turning,
Brian:rolleyes:

[Brian McInturff]

So what's your max bid Brian. It sure would look nice sitting in a glass case next to the Monster Oliver you've got! Brian

[Brian Weick]

Hi Brian,
I am not an antique collector and , yes this would be a nice lathe, but it deserves the home of someone that first of all-can afford it, and second of all~ knows an awful lot about this lathe ~ I know very,very, little about this lathe~ other than there are very few of them and it is an ornamental lathe ~ and an extremely rare find ~ that's it. I do hope who ever wins the lathe won't actually use it ~ that would be a tragedy and and accident waiting to happen. Yes it would be nice to see what it can do, but do the same on a $5000 machine and leave the Goyen lathe alone ,that's my opinion- It's not like you can go to MSK and see if they have the part you broke on it ~ LOL
Happy Turning:rolleyes:
Brian

[Brian Weick]

It is completed and finally in place, I just have to remove the items from under the lathe. I am waiting for the headstock & tailstock from Fredric's. Stopped by there last week - 4 high-speed industrial bearings installed - just waiting for the spindle to be completed. When I get it all finished - I will post the new Oliver 20C lathe - The paint job came out extremely well 2 of the primer coat and 3 coats- all professionally sprayed. I was also able to buff all the metal out to chrome - still have some more to do - but it is getting towards the end of this long and very time consuming project but it is well worth all the time and patience to have it in the condition it is today.
Happy turning
Brian