Dust collection lid's

[Joe Trotter]

I have seen a few threads where folks use a special lid on a 5 gallon bucket for dust collection.

Can anyone fill me in on how well they work. Is it sort of a "cyclone" effect?

I was trying to find the web page for clear vue but it no longer exists?

Thanks, Joe

[Jeff Towle]

Yes they work as a cyclone to allow the larger debris to drop out of the airflow prior to going through the impeller of your collector. This save wear & tear on your collector and also allows for fewer times wrestling with the bag and clamp when you empty the collector.
The 5 gal version is for use with a shopvac. If you run a regular dust collector they make a lid with 4" ports that fits a 30 gal trashcan.

Jeff

[Robert McGowen]

I have the larger version on the 30 gal. trash can. It works great as far as doing what it is supposed to do. I empty the garbage can 4-5 times before I have to empty the collector's bag. I think that the collector's bag only fills up when I don't check the garbage can often enough. :rolleyes:

[Al Willits]

I use a shop vac on my router table and been thinking of a smaller version for that, clearview makes a nice one that fits on top a 5 gallon pail and I'll probably go with that, or the Dust deputy by Oneida, which I think is a complete kit.

Al

[glenn bradley]

5 gal version that can be had for about $20 from Rockler and others works great on my big shop vac. The $100 versions may work better but I doubt if it could get 5 times better. With the lid and a 'clean stream' filter, life is good. Only the finest dust gets into the vac canister.

For the 30 gal type if you go there; I have the Woodcraft version with a 90* elbow inside the can. The Jet version is about the same cost and is a superior design that puts a little less of a hit on your DC.

[Ted Miller]

Depending on how much CFM you are getting at the source you will lose some pressure with these seperators, keep your filters clean and check them often...

[Al Willits]

Forgot about the one from Rockler, thanks.
For $20 ya can't hardly go wrong...:)

Al

[Jeff Towle]

My 30 Gal version was free with my DC from Grizzly, I think it goes for about $29 in their catalog.

Mine is a lifesaver as I have a floor sweep pick up on my system so the occasional nail, screw, nut or bolt gets sucked up.

Jeff

[Maury Morneault]

I have the Veritas clear lid from Lee Valley. I love it! Just go to Lee Valley's website and search "cyclone lids".

Maury

[Chris Jenkins]

I too have the lee Valley, though mine is not clear. I put mine on top of a 55 gallon drum and I emptied that bad boy at least 5 times before I worried about anything in my 1200. Let me add this though. I upgraded to 6" hose at one point. Once I went this route the air velocity increased so much it sucked it right past the seperator to the DC bags (even with it bottle necked down to 4" at the end). To overcome this I added a second 55 gallon drum on top of the existing (I used a plastic drum on the second one and cut the top AND bottom off, and slide one inside the other) This worked, but at that point it was a real pain to service plus I had to make sure the chips never got fuller than the first 1/3 of the double drum otherwise it just got sucked through again. I eventually just dismissed it...

I noticed you mentioned the Clearvue. If you are talking about a shop vac type unit then yes Clearvue has a cool one. I believe Oneida copied them as well (actually not sure who copied who first). I personally wouldn't ever waste time using a shop vac as a primary DC unit in the shop. Maybe if you use a lot of portable hand tools then this would be a good route. If you are looking for a primary DC unit don't go with a shop vac. They don't function the same way a traditional DC does, plus you're going to burn out that universal style motor over a induction motor.

[Nissim Avrahami]

Or you can make one like this
All the post is here
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=37867

niki


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/avrahami/RtDt/0009.jpg

[Brian Dormer]

Harbor Freight has the 5-gallon bucket lid type for 8 bucks. Item 9586-0VGA

[Doug Shepard]

...
I was trying to find the web page for clear vue but it no longer exists?

Thanks, Joe

http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/

[Rick Thom]

I use a shop vac on my router table and been thinking of a smaller version for that, clearview makes a nice one that fits on top a 5 gallon pail and I'll probably go with that, or the Dust deputy by Oneida, which I think is a complete kit.

Al
Al, the small cyclone, either Clearvu or Dust Deputy, is a different animal from the cyclone lids that others are talking about. The basic purpose of each is to intercept material before it reaches the DC. The cyclone lid type deposits the larger material in the pail and reduces the volume of material headed to the DC or shop vac. I have seen larger ones for full size DCs and smaller lids with smaller hose ports which are used for shop vacs. The 'dust deputy' is a full cyclone and it sits on top of a collection bucket. It attempts to intercept all of the material, both larger chips and very fine dust, and deposit that into the bucket. The DD cyclone is only about 12-14" tall and has small ports suitable for use with a shop vac but not a large DC because I think the higher air flow and velocity of the DC would suck the debris right through the cyclone rather than depositing it in the pail. I have the DD connected to my shop vac and use it mainly on tools that generate a lot of dust like my osc & edge sanders, router table, ROS, etc. and let my full size DC handles the rest. After having the DD for a few months, I thought I should have a look inside the pail and shop vac. Nothing in the shop vac and filter was perfectly clean. Everything was in the pail under the DD. It is quite an amazing product and I understand it is also excellent for grabbing drywall dust. These items aren't cheap, but they work very well for what they are intended to do.

[Joe Trotter]

WOW, thank's for all the responses!

Joe

[Phil Thien]

I have a question. I've heard that the Rockler/Woodcraft type cyclone lids require that you empty the can they are attached to at about 1/2 full, or they start sending debris bad to the shop vac. So, the five gallon is more like a 2.5 gallon. Is that true?

[Bob Rufener]

Joe,

I made a pre-collector out of a barrel I got for free from a company that does powder coat painting. I believe it is about a 20 or 25 gallon barrel. It is made of a dense card board material and has a lid on it that seals real well. I cut two holes in the lid and silicone sealed two plumbing elbows that fit the size of my dust collector system. I also put a baffle made out of a piece of scrap wood between the inlet and the outlet. It picks up a lot of the heavier bits before they go to the dust collector bag.

If you use your imagination, you can often save a lot of money. My only cost was for the two plumbing connections and the silicone sealer.

[Al Willits]

Thanks Rick, I keep coming back to one of those two, even though they're more money.
I use the shop vac for some clean up and the router table, and as is I'm gonna burn the motor out soon, the filter seems to plug very quickly.
One more item to add to my wish list...
Al

[Joe Trotter]

Joe,

I made a pre-collector out of a barrel I got for free from a company that does powder coat painting. I believe it is about a 20 or 25 gallon barrel. It is made of a dense card board material and has a lid on it that seals real well. I cut two holes in the lid and silicone sealed two plumbing elbows that fit the size of my dust collector system. I also put a baffle made out of a piece of scrap wood between the inlet and the outlet. It picks up a lot of the heavier bits before they go to the dust collector bag.

If you use your imagination, you can often save a lot of money. My only cost was for the two plumbing connections and the silicone sealer.

Do the elbows have any extensions going down into the barrel? Sounds like an easy test to buid one like yours.

Thanks, Joe

[glenn bradley]

I have a question. I've heard that the Rockler/Woodcraft type cyclone lids require that you empty the can they are attached to at about 1/2 full, or they start sending debris bad to the shop vac. So, the five gallon is more like a 2.5 gallon. Is that true?

In my experience, yes. I think a bigger shop vac just has the velocity to keep things airborne in the bucket once it gets to a certain height. On the other hand, I notice pretty much right away when its time to dump and its super easy. I built a stand and use a bungee to keep the lid in place.

Honest, its not as bad as it looks.

59683

Better shot of the bucket.

59684

[Joe Trotter]

In my experience, yes. I think a bigger shop vac just has the velocity to keep things airborne in the bucket once it gets to a certain height. On the other hand, I notice pretty much right away when its time to dump and its super easy. I built a stand and use a bungee to keep the lid in place.

Honest, its not as bad as it looks.

59683

Better shot of the bucket.

59684

Glenn,
Are those standard shop vac hoses going into that lid?

Thanks, Joe

[Tyler Howell]

I use a home made 5 gal water bath for my shop vac when grinding/cutting metal (don't want that in the DC) and for sanding sheet rock,
Really keeps the dust down:cool:

The Jet GC top works ok. I put a 90*elbo inside and messed with the height adjustment for best seperation.
Not a cyclone but better than changing those pricie bags.

[Larry Anderson]

I have the Veritas clear lid from Lee Valley. I love it! Just go to Lee Valley's website and search "cyclone lids".

Maury
How does the hose connect to this lid? Does it fit inside or is it clamped to the outside?
I'm now using a homemade version with 4" hose, but find that a lot of chips are not staying in the can. The central outlet extends about 9" into the 30 gal can. It looks like the commercial lids have the outlet nearly flush with the lid.

Larry

[glenn bradley]

Glenn,
Are those standard shop vac hoses going into that lid?

Thanks, Joe

Yes. Well, standard Ridgid hoses, which I believe are the same size. You do need a coupler for each hole on the Rockler version. It comes with just holes cut into the lid as ports and the hose does not connect directly; at least not solid enough for my use.

I stand corrected on previous comments about how much better a Dust Deputy might be compared to the $20 units (plus $8 for a pair of couplers). Rick Thom reports much better fine dust collection than I get with the cheaper unit.

I don't get any large material in the vac barrel and the dust I get is so fine I can run the thing for a month or so before emptying. I'm sure this would be more of a problem without the Clean Stream filter ($35). So as these things add up the DD or the CV start to look a little less expensive. Of the two I'd have to pass on the DD due to the hose size at the inlet.

P.s. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with my setup.

[Ted Baca]

Joe you can see one at Woodcraft at I-25 and Crossroads in Loveland.

[Joe Trotter]

Joe you can see one at Woodcraft at I-25 and Crossroads in Loveland.

Thanks Ted, I may stop there tomorrow morning.

I am going to Longmont to look at a table saw. I may have finally found one.

Joe

[Tri Hoang]

I had a cheap one from Woodstock (Amazon) and I got about 75% separation but eventually the bags will clog. You also need to keep in mind that routing your DC through the lid causes it to loose quite a few CFM. After using one for over two years, I think these lids (and the single stage DC that go with them) should be called chip collectors. I still have lots of fine dust all over the place, especially when working with MDF.

By the way, I strongly recommend the lids at Lee Valley...cost a little more but very high quality.

[Ted Baca]

Joe good news on the saw. How did the router table fence plans work out?

[Doug Arndt]

Al, the small cyclone, either Clearvu or Dust Deputy, is a different animal from the cyclone lids that others are talking about.

I bought the ClearVue shopvac cyclone, then fashioned legs for it, and mounted an old Hoover vac motor/blower on top. No filter.
I can't see any dust in the exhaust stream, it all goes into the container.
It's a major improvement to cloging up the vac filter.

[John Gregory]

I have this lid and I was wondering...with this design does it matter which port is the inlet or outlet? The label did not say.

Thanks

[Maury Morneault]

How does the hose connect to this lid? Does it fit inside or is it clamped to the outside?
I'm now using a homemade version with 4" hose, but find that a lot of chips are not staying in the can. The central outlet extends about 9" into the 30 gal can. It looks like the commercial lids have the outlet nearly flush with the lid.

Larry

Larry,

I have the large clear version for 2 1/2" hose and I have it mounted to a 32 gal (Rubbermaid) trash can. My Craftsman 6.5HP/16 gal. vacuum does all the work. And no, I don't have a problem pulling chips from my jointer or planer. The holes in the lid are flush (don't extend into can) and the hose(s) simply press in. I put a liner in the can and throw a few scraps in the bottom to keep it down. I like the clear lid because I can see what's going on...and when to change the liner. Usually, when the can gets about 3/4 full it's time to change the liner. I can get about 8-10 bags out of my separator before it's time to empty the shopvac. I also change the filter in my vac whenever I empty it. Works great for me.

Maury

[Jeff Towle]

I have this lid and I was wondering...with this design does it matter which port is the inlet or outlet? The label did not say.

ThanksThats the lid I have. I use the left hand opening for the inlet but don't think it matters too much. I did it that way to avoid kinking the hoses. My can sits to the right of my DC so it was a straight shot from the DC to the right hand port.

Jeff

[Al Willits]

I bought the ClearVue shopvac cyclone, then fashioned legs for it, and mounted an old Hoover vac motor/blower on top. No filter.
I can't see any dust in the exhaust stream, it all goes into the container.
It's a major improvement to cloging up the vac filter.



Just wondering, not to sure how high the clearvue is, but could you mount the clearvue on a 5 or 10 gal container, and then with a grid of some sort mount the vacuum above it?
Thinking floor space here, if this didn't get to tall of a assembly.
Or maybe side by side under a workbench?

Seems I either need to get more organized or build a bigger shop..
Al....who thinks the bigger shop would be quicker...

[John Gregory]

Thats the lid I have. I use the left hand opening for the inlet but don't think it matters too much. I did it that way to avoid kinking the hoses. My can sits to the right of my DC so it was a straight shot from the DC to the right hand port.

Jeff

That is what I did too. Connected it the easiest way for the hose setup
Thanks

[Phil Thien]

I bought the ClearVue shopvac cyclone, then fashioned legs for it, and mounted an old Hoover vac motor/blower on top. No filter.
I can't see any dust in the exhaust stream, it all goes into the container.
It's a major improvement to cloging up the vac filter.

I'd love to see a few pics of that!

[Rob Haskell]

I'm using a small clear vue and it works great.
Here's the link.
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/

[Doug Arndt]

I'd love to see a few pics of that!

This started out as a "mock up", but the silly thing works !

[Joe Trotter]

This started out as a "mock up", but the silly thing works !

That is very cool!

[glenn bradley]

I agree with Jeff. I also have that lid for my 5 gal. I hooked my hoses the opposite of Jeff on my shop vac as it worked better for hose placement. I see nothing designating a direction for the lids shown. My DC seperator (different design) is definitly directional.

[glenn bradley]

Doug,

You have GOT to get a NASA sticker for the side of that thing. That is too cool.

[Al Willits]

Just curious, is there a next size up from the mini versions of the cyclone units, one that would work on a portable unit like the JDS Dust force???

The larger ones I seen all have blowers on them.

Al...who see's another project coming....:)

[Doug Arndt]

Just curious, is there a next size up from the mini versions of the cyclone units, one that would work on a portable unit like the JDS Dust force???

The larger ones I seen all have blowers on them.

Al...who see's another project coming....:)

I think there is a slightly smaller version of the full size cyclone, and i think you can order it without the motor/blower. That might adapt to the JDS unit. Take a look at the http://clearvuecyclones.com/ website, and also visit their forum, good place to post that question. (see their photo gallery for examples)

[Al Willits]

Thanks Doug, I sent them a email and joined their forum..:)

Al

[Rick Thom]

You are starting to head in this direction.http://www.oneida-air.com/products/systems/portable/portable.htm Wish it didn't cost so much ie @ 3x that of a conventional DC.

[Al Willits]

I may be heading that way Rick, but at $1200 its gonna be a long road to travel...:)

Al

[Phil Thien]

This started out as a "mock up", but the silly thing works !

But where does the sawdust go?

[Joe Trotter]

This started out as a "mock up", but the silly thing works !

Doug,
Do you have any more pictures of the motor install? I have an old hoover in my basement that I can use.

Thanks, Joe

[Doug Arndt]

But where does the sawdust go?

Falls out the bottom into a "pickle jar"

I suppose I should add, since this doesn't hold much, that my purpose was for fiberglass sanding (building a kayak), and my brother was complaining how quick the shop vac filter gets clogged. That's what started this "research". Since the vac was at my brothers, i fabricated the Hoover blower as a stand in. I can remove that, and just plug in the shop vac hose instead to use it's filter.

Anyway, the jar has enough capacity for what i need, but this cyclone can be mounted on anything you want. See the photo gallery at http://clearvuecyclones.com/ for several examples of this small cyclone attached to 5 gal buckets, and shop vacs.

[Jim Becker]

Quite a few years ago (2000 or 2001), a guy named Mike Simpson down in Louden County VA made a little cyclone that he used for cleanup. As far as I know, this was before the current small crop of "mini cyclones" hit the market from the commercial vendors.

Here's a pic from his online article accessable from the menu on his website (http://www.mgsweb.com/woodworking/index.html).

http://www.mgsweb.com/woodworking/cyclone/mcyclone3.JPG

[Al Willits]

Having to much time on my hands today, I got wondering.....:)

Could a person find plans for one of these, and make it out of maybe plexiglass and would you be able to glue the thing together???

Al...as if I don't have a enough of a learning curve already...

[Brian Penning]

One question about using these lids; don't you find that since the main unit lasts longer between emptying that the suction decreases due to all the fine dust staying longer in the upper bag?
Before emptying my DC I always give the upper bag a good shaking to get some of that fine dust into the bottom bag.

[Doug Arndt]

Doug,
Do you have any more pictures of the motor install? I have an old hoover in my basement that I can use.

Thanks, Joe

I used a motor/blower from an old Hoover upright vac..

Had a supply of 1/8" masonite pieces, cut one to follow the base, it was close to flush.

Cut a strip off a Folgers coffee can, tucked it into the slot.

covered that with another piece of masonite to make a blower housing.

On the cyclone frame, i left a little room, so added one more piece to keep the blower from sliding around ... I made the "gasket" with silicone, placed some wax paper on it, and put it into position until cured.

Then screwed the blower assembly to the frame ring (which should have been a bit larger) (couple more pics in next note)

[Doug Arndt]

After taking it apart, i can see some dust, so it's not perfect, fabricating some kind of filter into this would be good, but even without a filter, there is less dust floating around, so it's doing more good then not.

A note about the collection container, it's a MUST, that it be sealed with NO leaks (applies to all cyclones)

[Joe Trotter]

Thanks Doug for the pictures!

[Phil Thien]

One question about using these lids; don't you find that since the main unit lasts longer between emptying that the suction decreases due to all the fine dust staying longer in the upper bag?
Before emptying my DC I always give the upper bag a good shaking to get some of that fine dust into the bottom bag.

I use disposable bags in my shopvac. This really keeps the filter very clean. And I use a CleanStream filter, which keeps the air pretty clean.

[Doug Arndt]

Having to much time on my hands today, I got wondering.....:)

Could a person find plans for one of these, and make it out of maybe plexiglass and would you be able to glue the thing together???

Al...as if I don't have a enough of a learning curve already...

Don't see why not, many have in fact, all the plans are at Bill Pentz's site.