The Neander Life...

[Mark Singer]

I hand planed a ew of the last projects and did a fair amount of other sawing...rasping etc.
My back has been very tight in the upper area.....:(
I had a massage at my home today for the fourth time in 2 months...it helps ..
I am aware of my posture and try to stay balanced.....but it seems to knot up and it doesn't work itself out...so what to do.....
I also pulled a ligament in my knee and I get acupuncture every 3 or 4 days....tomorrow is my forth visit....
well I still really love the work and I am not about to quit.....so I will have to see how it goes for a while:rolleyes:

[Jim Becker]

Sorry to hear you're, umm...in need of the massuse... :)

Seriously, many of the things we do in the shop tend to distract us from considering posture, balance and position. Turners who take classes from folks like David Ellsworth spend considerable time on just that. You can't do your best work when your body is strained from no being situated in the optimal postion for the task at hand. We should also think about this more, IMHO. (It's even one of the reasons I put the Adjust-A-Bench in my shop...worksurface height is one of the critical elements to comfortable body position when doing woodworking tasks)

[Ryan Cathey]

I pulled a muscle in my arm a while back trying to plane with a dull blade in my (beware: drive by gloat) 20 dollar 5 1/4 at an akward angle but in the end it worked out for the best because now I can/know how to plane right or left handed:D

-Ryan C.

[Jim Dunn]

I strained my eyes looking at your posts:eek: Does that count for anything:confused::rolleyes::):)

[Mark Singer]

I strained my eyes looking at your posts:eek: Does that count for anything:confused::rolleyes::):)

Sorry I will post bigger pictures:rolleyes:

[Robert Trotter]

Hi Mark, you could try myotheropy or deep massage theropy.

What I would like to suggest is something a little different but the guy who does it is in Oz. Based on deep masage theropy and accupressure. But the basis is that muscles throughout your body are not in balance so they adjust to take up pressures from other muscles that aren't working as best as they could...eventually you do something which sets it all off and then pain comes. So basically you need to get you muscles balanced by realeasing the problem tight muscles. Usually the painful area is not the problem. But somewhere else. Often in the spinae erector muscles down either side of the spine. leg and knee pain can come from problems in these muscles as well.

Get (try) a deep muscles massage (at least an hour long session) to release the muscles throughout the body. two or three session and it should be improving, if not try something else.

If the accuppuncture works, great, but it is probably adressing the symptoms and not the cause.

My 2 yen worth. A little less than two cents.:D

Robert

[Dan Forman]

Mark---Here is a little stretching exercise I have found to be very helpful for shoulder and upper back discomfort. First, find an unobstructed corner of a room. Stand facing said corner, with legs just slightly spread about 18" apart, and so that your chest is about 18" away from where the walls meet. Raise your arms so that your forearms are paralell to the walls (pointing up), and your upper arms are parallel to the floor, pointing straight out to the side, forming a straight line through the shoulders, with right angles at the elbows, hands clenched into fists. Got it?

Now, gently lean into the corner until your forearms make contact with the walls on either side. Keep your legs, back neck and head straight in line, and let gravity pull you into the corner a little, with your forearms in contact with the walls. The walls will begin to pull your arms and shoulders and back into a compound stretch. Be gentle and don't force it, let gravity pull you, and let comfort be your guide. When you feel a good stretch, but not to level of pain, rest in position for 30 seconds or so, breathing slowly and evenly. Then as you brethe out, release tension and relax into the stretch a little more, again gravity is pulling you into the corner, the walls are holding you out of it. Hold this new position for another 30 seconds, then see if you can go deeper still into the corner without pain. All the while, keep your legs, back, neck and head in line, and your upper arms straight out. When you have had enough, gently push out of the corner with your forearms, and let your arms down along your side. Feel the results of your actions.

This is great for relieving the stress of hunching over and tightening up the muscles of the the shoulders and upper back, just the sort of thing resulting from planing, sawing, or using chisels. Remember thateven if you are just spending a lot of time looking down, your neck and shoulders are supporting the full weight of your head, which is in the neighborhood of 10 to 12 pounds. I learned this stretch from my chiropractor, and it has served me well. Listen to your body, and don't try to force the stretch, or bounce into it. You need to feel some tension, but not pain.

Try it, you'll like it! You can do it as often if you like, before and after work sessions is good, also any time you are feeling tight.

Dan

[Roy McQuay]

And I've been telling myself it's because I'm outashapengettinolder. I didn't even think of those excuses. :) :) :)

[Jim Dunn]

Sorry I will post bigger pictures:rolleyes:

No No, I just meant I spend so much time looking and clicking and wishing and wanting. The list goes on and on.:D

[Mark Singer]

No No, I just meant I spend so much time looking and clicking and wishing and wanting. The list goes on and on.:D

Jim,
Your making my back feel better already:rolleyes: Thanks!

[Mark Singer]

Robert,
That is what I am getting....11/2 hours at a time!

Dan,
Iwill try that it sounds very good and thanks for taking the time to explain it! I never had any of this a few years ago...:rolleyes:

[Jake Darvall]

For me, back ache went when I raised all my bench heights. Made hand planing harder, but I got used to it....but we're all different I suppose.

[Jason Roehl]

Mark, here's my back-stretching routine:

1. Lay down on a firm surface with enough room to stretch (low-pile carpet is best)
2. Stretch arms over head, with knuckles about an inch off the floor. Hold stretch for 30 sec-1 minute.
3. While exhaling, bring hands to chest, rolling the upper spine so that lower spine lays flat. Should take about 5-10 seconds for this.
4. Pull ears to shoulder each way (my neck usually pops doing this) with head still on floor.
5. Sit up to cross-legged (Indian) position.
6. Put left hand on floor outside of right knee and right hand on floor behind right buttocks and twist with back relaxed, using left hand to push against the knee. Reverse and twist the other way.

If it's real bad, ibuprofen will help any swelling, allowing for more movement and stretching. Rarely does it take me more than 2-3 days to work out even the worst "kinks".

[Jerry Palmer]

Or like my daddy used to tell me when I complained of aches and pains from manual labor, "Just suck it up and get back to work." :D

The LOML shows me no mercy when I come in with aches and pains after playing in the shop for a few hours. I just don't understand it.:mad:

[Glenn Clabo]

Rarely does it take me more than 2-3 days to work out even the worst "kinks".

Jason,
All I can say is...just wait.;) When I was your age I could also blow something out and be back in a day or two. Nowadays I start out every day with something blown out...and it goes down hill from there. :mad:

[Glenn Clabo]

Mark...
I sure do understand what you are saying. Last weekend I had DrLOML trying her best to massage out a sore shoulder/back pull. Warming up before I start anything has to be part of the equation for me from now on. Sadly recovery time is getting longer and longer.

[Jason Roehl]

Glenn...yeah, I know those days may be coming. About a year ago, I tweaked my back real bad. I worked through it for two days (I was fine when I kept moving), but that Saturday, I took it easy. Every time I tried to get up from a chair, I would have a spasm after about two steps and nearly fall to the ground. I normally don't use ice, but that time I did and it helped. It was a total of about a week before I was back to normal. Considering all the physically stressful work I do, I'd say my back is overall in good shape. Carrying long ladders and setting them up can be hard on the back. I've also heard that 10 lbs extra in front is 70 lbs of pressure on the lower back, so I'm trying to keep ahead in that department, despite my affinity for dark beer. :D

I've also noticed that as I get a little older, there is a little less of a cavalier attitude towards doing "stupid" stuff--tasks that may cause me to tweak something.

[Ed Kowaski]

Mark, do yourself a really big favor and go see a good physio-therapist. They will be able to put develop a program just for you and what your body needs.
The great part is 10 to 20 mins a day makes a HUGE HUGE diference.

[Mark Singer]

I just had another accpuncyure from Dr. Li ....I will let you know in a day or 2

[Pam Niedermayer]

A disc slipped about a year ago after moving some heavy construction items, could hardly walk. What cured me were the MacKenzie first aid and exercises, all your spine doctors will know about his method. To this day I do at least one session, usually in the morning before getting up (I like hard mattresses, so it's a flat surface), to keep the back strong.

However, in reflection, I realized that I had been asking for back trouble all fall, took a 3-4 week road trip without usual exercise, hadn't been walking my usual 1.5-3 miles a day, and had stopped taking a medication that incidentally made my back stronger.

Also, I recommend video taping yourself while working and reviewing the tapes. It should be fairly easy to spot body movements you could do differently.

Pam

[Steve Thomas]

When I'm going to do a whole bunch of hard, hand work I do a warm up! and a few stretches (already mentioned)
But seriously, just like the rugby teams do. You need to warm the body up from the inside (sitting on the radiator doesn't count) and when i'm done I stretch to cool down. All the physio's will give you a routine to follow before and after your work(out).

Steve

[Dick Aubochon]

I'm in the gym almost everyday, just turned 60, but still get some pains from woodworking. Up and down ladders finishing up a trim job still has me tied in a few knots.
I was just about to purchase a series of deep massages from a local, but opted to buy an LN 5-1/2 instead. As I've said in other posts, I was just driving by on the way to see the massage therapist and took a wrong turn into the LN showroom parking lot.:D

[Ben Grunow]

I have a 4" hard rubber caster on the wall in my shop about 52" above the floor that I use to work out the really bad knots when I am working. It (next to plywood leaning up over door) is great because you simply adjust your distance from it depending on how hard you want to massage your back.

To use it you just lean back on it and bend your knees to move your torso up and down working the wheel over the knots and behind shoulder blades etc. Great when you realize that you are sore and the massage therapist is no where in sight.

See it?

59762

Get one.

Ben

[Zahid Naqvi]

Mark, no one has told you about the most important fitness equipment in a shop, a recliner with a foot rest. Take a break every 30 minutes or so and you should be all right :D

[Rod Sheridan]

And of course since it's a woodworking forum, that would be a Morris chair correct?

[Rod Sheridan]

Oh, I forgot the foot rest!

[Dean Lapinel]

First, most of the well intended responses have dealt with relief of discomfort.
The best way to address this problem was stated:

"Mark, do yourself a really big favor and go see a good physio-therapist. They will be able to put develop a program just for you and what your body needs.
The great part is 10 to 20 mins a day makes a HUGE HUGE diference."

Pam basically suggested the same thing.

The region you are having problems with is very complex with regards to motion and strength balance. Even pectoral contraction from poor posture can contribute but the smaller muscles that hold the shoulder blade pinched in together are often weak.

See a Physical therapist then consider using jointers/planers and tablesaws for the big stuff and hand tools for the fine work. If you have a cough, weight loss, numbness,fever or if the pain persists for a long period of time (greater than 6 weeks)then see a doctor first.
Dean

[Jim Shaver, Oakville Ont]

Sorry to hear of your pain,

A few years ago there was a great article in FWW on the ergonomics of power and the human body. The article spoke about body position, the power zone, control zone and how to position your self and work to optimize control and energy. Worth a look, I can not remeber the issue, but I used it to scale my workbench height etc.

[Michael Gibbons]

Mark. I do a repetative job in an auto parts factory that makes me lift 30lbs about 750 times a day in which I kinda do a shoulder shrug like saying "I Dunno?". I get quite tight in my lower back and shoulders. I stretch ALOT during the course of my shift just to keep going. Sometimes the wife and I go and get a deep tissue massage. I'm also thinking about getting a procedure done that is called ROLFING. It's a type of deep fascia stretching that apparently loosens and aligns all the major muscle groups so that you can move effeciently and with ease. I understand it usually takes about ten sessions to do the whole body which is done weekly. you might want to look into that if symptoms continue..