Non-routing Lutherism

[William Crooks]

Hi All:

I came across this forum while searching for opinions on rather or not using a router is actually -necessary- for guitar (well...bass) construction, and alternatives if not. It seems the majority of "custom guitar" forums out there heavily advocate the use of routers, whereas I'm hoping you guys/girls here might be more...comparative in your opinions?=)

Essentially, I want to make an electric [solid body] bass body (I'll likely use a premade neck), and among the things I have at my disposal, one of them is a jigsaw. I'm hoping that for the overall body I can use the jigsaw and either sandpaper, a planer, or some other "non-router" power or hand tool to suffice for the role a router would usually play.

When getting into doing the cavities in the body (for electronics, etc.), I was advised by a guitarist that using a chisel might actually work fine...however I'd be concerned with causing unwanted cracks/splits in the wood using a hand chisel (although, I suppose with light tapping, and proper technique, this could be avoided?).

I have somewhat limited experience in woodworking (mainly because of our location and lack of a place to do year-round woodworking), however a family member does have substantial experience in other types of woodworking, and would be more than happy to assist.

Any suggestions/opinions/experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Wiliam......Welcome to the Creek! We have a small number of folks here who've built guitars and I'm sure they'll chime in later. That being said and I"m not a neander but.....I'm amazed since getting a good grinder, stones and a diamond sharpener how sharp hand tools, chisels can be. I acutually use my turning skew for making precise cuts on my turns because that skew is SHARP. I think you could do it with hand tools.....chisel, rasp..planes..sanding....You might post the same thread over in the neander forum and get some opinions from folks who specialize in using hand tools.

Again....Welcome to the Creek!

[William Crooks]

Hi Ken:

Thank you for your welcome, and prompt response ^_^ -- there are really two reasons I'm trying to avoid a router:

1. We don't have one ^^;
2. The "more experienced woodworker" suggested that with my tendency to be accident-prone, having a blade spinning several thousand RPM might not be a good idea until I was a bit more experienced =)

I think what I'm hoping is to use a combination of power tools (jigsaw, possibly a 3D sander [not even sure if we have one -- I'll have to check with the "more experienced woodworker"]), and hand tools so that I can kinda...well, not only get experienced using some power tools, but also use some hand tools at the same time.

I've always had an interest in woodworking, but this is really the first major project I've actually decided to try to follow through on. The main reason being that I eventually -do- want to take a luthier course, but it's not likely to happen for a while =)

Well, as far as posting the same thread over in the Neader forum -- having been around many forums over the last 7+ years, I'm used to cross-posting being a nuisance, and didn't want to make my presence known in a way that might be annoying -- though, if cross-posting is welcome here, perhaps I will if I don't get a lot of "hand tool perspectives" ^_^

Thanks again -- I'm hoping I'll be able to stick around, and if this project pans out, be able to be a "poster child for the first major project" and perhaps provide some insights after I've at least done a full scale trial of the idea. Actually I contacted the local building supply store regarding some wood I could get just for testing out cuts and stuff (eg: so as not to ruin a more expensive piece of "tone wood"), haven't heard back from them yet.

[James Phillips]

I have built several acoutctic guitars and here is my 2cents

You can do it without a router, but if you want to put any trim on the body a small laminate trim router will make the job many times easier. They usually only run about $60-70. Good Luck

[William Crooks]

Hi James:

Thank You for your response. Based on that, I'd say the main reason I'd need a router at all would be for the trim work?(something I can understand completely) -- I'm not overly concerned with being able to trim the body, or even with it being "rounded" at this point, so would it simply be possible to sand down the edges to make them somewhat "smooth"?

So ultimately, it'd be possible to hollow out cavities in the body with other tools just as effectively, but they may not be as "well rounded" as they'd be if I used a router?

[Wilbur Pan]

There are many ways to make the cavities in the body for pickups, electronics, etc. besides using a router. The big advantage of the router is that you can make a pickup template and repeat that form with a high degree of accuracy. But there are many ways to skin a cat.

Here are two ways of making a pickup cavity without using a router that I can think of off the top of my head:

1. Use a drill press to drill holes for the majority of the cavity, and use a chisel to clean it up.

2. Use a chisel and chop away at the cavity as if you were making a mortise by hand.

You don't have to worry about splitting the body by using a chisel. People chop mortises in wood using a chisel all the time without blowing out the wood.

You might consider a Dremel tool. It can do a lot of the trim work you were asking about, and is much less aggressive than a router. And yes, you can sand down the edges of your body.

Finally, you should know that there is a thing called a router plane (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=52609&cat=1,41182,48945), which would help you clean up the bottom of the cavity.

[Mike Langford]

William,
I know it's not what you want to hear, but a router is the best and most efficient way to create the cavities for the electronics......Fast and clean removal of a lot of wood!

Of course it's not the only way. You can do it with a couple of carving gouges and a chisel,maybe a dremel tool or a small laminate trimmer as James suggested. It's just very labor intensive!

For your bass body a jigsaw is good for cutting the basic outline.
With a router you could "round over" the edges easier, or you could use a combination of files,rasps,and scrapers to shape the body....Just cut away what doesn't look like a bass guitar!:D

I use a microplane for shaping.....it cuts faster than a rasp
you can get them at Woodcraft or Rockler....
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=2009
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10759

59584 59585

I also use a card scraper....
59586

To take it from this:
59588

To this:
59589

[William Crooks]

Mike:

-laughs- Cut away what doesn't look like a bass guitar, eh?With my luck, I'd probably end up cutting away the entire piece of wood =)

Microplanes look like something that would really help this project along, for sure -- seems like you have no problem doing a rather effective job with them =)

Wilbur:

I actually don't have access to a drill press, but the chisel suggestion confirms what I was thinking of doing. And I definately appreciate the reassurance regarding using a chisel for this type of work. I actually never knew that a router plane existed -- and it certainally sounds appropriate...assuming I can pick one up =)


Now for general responses to the overall thread:

Having had a discussion with the "more experienced woodworker", he suggested that I use a scroll saw rather than a jigsaw for cutting out the body. Turns out we also have access to an assortment of handheld tools (a small hand planer, a "contour guide" for hand sanding, chisels, etc.), so I think this is going to end up turning into a mainly "neander" project?

Regarding a dremel tool -- one is well within my budget, and I've actually wanted one since my days of having a slight interest in case modding (computer cases), something I didn't actually get into. It seems to me like getting a dremel would probably be one of my more important purchases before beginning this project, as it sounds like it could make certain rounding/cutting operations a lot easier.

I'm sure I'll have some more questions as I actually begin the project, "when" is more the question -- as you all have collectively given me the confidence to actually go through with giving it a shot ^^ -- it may or may not be before the summer months, but it -will- happen as soon as possible. I'm totally pumped for it.


I sincerely thank everyone who's posted, you've all been very welcoming and helpful -- I'm rather certain I'll be sticking around ^_^, my area of expertise tends to be computers/web hosting as opposed to woodworking, but I'll keep watch for anything I might be able to provide input on =)

[Steven Wilson]

For the bass and guitar bodies I've made, I've used a bandsaw to cut the outline and a plunge router for the neck pocket, pickups, and electronics cavities. Since these need to be acurately placed I make templates out of 1/4" plywood, tacked them to the body, and then used a plunge router and guide bushing to guide the cut. You will not be doing these freehand. A decent plunge router, guide, and bits used will cost you less than obtaining chisels, sharpening equipment, and the necessary skill to use them effectively. I enjoy using hand tools but cutting the cavities on an electric guitar body is not the place for them. I prefer to carve the body shape with hand tools after roughing out the shape on a bandsaw and acurately placing the necessary cavities (i.e. cut out the pickups, control cavities, and neck pocket first from a nicely squared slab, then cut the body shape out).

[William Crooks]

Hi Steven:

Thank you for your concise response. To be entirely honest, you've convinced me of your argument quite effectively. However, If I were to go with a small plunge router, say 2HP, would this suffice for the type of work you indicated?

[Steven Wilson]

A 2hp router works well for this. I have a Porter Cable 690 with the plunge and fixed bases that I used for this application. The smaller plunge routers (like the PC 690) are easier to control than the larger ones and have more than enough umph to tackle this task. Just make sure that the work is well supported and work safe. Since I cut the shape out after making the cavities I screw my templates to the waste area of the body blank. This provides a very stable and safe surface for doing the routing. If I were to do this in a production mode I would either use CNC or a pin router.

If you plan on carving the body and using an overlay (say alder body with curly maple top) you can still route out the cavities while the body is still a slab. Then you can carve the top and laminate your top skin on (right over the cavities). Then, after building a jig to hold things, you can drill a small hole through the top layer (in a pickup cavity say), insert your router bit (with a bearing on the bottom of the bit) through the hole and use the previously routed cavity as a template. It makes for a very clean edge and a fairly safe operation.

[William Crooks]

Extremely useful point, Steven. I never really thought about doing it that way (routing the cavities before cutting out the body), and that really does make sense assuming the templates I use allow for it.

In regards to the body, really all I'm planning to do is smooth it out -- optionally, I may finish it with a solid color, and have an artist friend of mine paint it -- but I don't intend to apply any sort of additional top work on the wood level. I think, assuming the "test run" goes as planned, I'd be looking at doing either an alder or swamp ash body for the "real" bass. Seeing as how it'd be my first bass construction project, I'm trying to get a desired result, while not "biting off more than I can chew" -- I figure if I'm even moderately successful with my first project, I can plan a more "advanced" construction for my second project (which I have an idea for already, concequently).

I appreciate the input regarding safe methods of doing things, as I've mentioned before, I've never used a router -- so anything that could make the process as...learner friendly...as possible, is appreciated.

I didn't realize it when I began thinking of doing this, but it seems like making a bass is actually a pretty good project for getting some overall experience in a mixture of both hand and power tools. Not to mention it's something I'm motivated to actually learn to do properly, rather than be blatantly discouraged by any mistakes I'm likely to make.

Thanks!