Looking for "varmint" shooter.

[John Miliunas]

Sheesh...How much more "off topic" can you get, heh? :D Anyhow, the LOML is getting just a bit more than annoyed with all the crows hanging around here (we're out in the country, BTW) and asked if there was a way I could "take care of them". Back in "the day", I was pretty handy with a 22 rifle but, that was like eons ago. Pretty much out of the loop for many years. So, here's my dilemma: Will a 22 be the best way to go? Smaller maybe? Don't really want to go the shotgun route, as I might as well use the thing for a little target shooting, too. :) Any recommendations from the masses here for a decent 22 & scope. I'm NOT looking for competition quality. Something good out to 50 or 70 yards or so. Oh, and most importantly, NOT expensive. I'm figuring I'd like to cover this with 200 to $250 outlay, max. Not opposed to used, either. I know there are a bazillion shooting forums out there but, I've kinda' come to trust what my friends here at the Creek have to offer on various subjects. Any takers??? Thanks, folks! :) :cool:

[Jim Becker]

John, I'll take my 20,000th post at SMC to be a "friend of the birds" and mention that you should check on whether you can legally shoot the crows. They are not game birds, or invasive non-native species and I believe that native species may be protected. Can't have them as pets, either...sadly as they are very intelligent animals. Crows have been show to be tool users, too...something that only recently was recognized in primates.

Maybe you can find a way to scare them off without killing them?

[David G Baker]

John, I'll take my 20,000th post at SMC to be a "friend of the birds" and mention that you should check on whether you can legally shoot the crows. They are not game birds, or invasive non-native species and I believe that native species may be protected. Can't have them as pets, either...sadly as they are very intelligent animals. Crows have been show to be tool users, too...something that only recently was recognized in primates.

Maybe you can find a way to scare them off without killing them?
Jim,
Congratulations on your 20,000th post. That is truly amazing. The help you have given the folks out here is equally amazing. Thank you very much and may you make 40,000 in the next few years.
David B

[Phillip Thorne]

I know here in NC crows are "in sesson" year around, so you might need to get a state hunting license...crows can be extremly aggravating, especially in large quantities! Check your local pawn shop/ gun store I'm sure several people have traded one in to help pay those holiday credit card bills...best of luck w/ those "varmints"

[Per Swenson]

John,

I don't eat crow.

Read this.....

http://www.pestproducts.com/crows.htm

Yep, I may be a gun owning liberal redneck, but rules are rules.

You kill it you eat it. Unless it can pick a lock.

With that said... get a ruger 10-22

Per

[Doug Shepard]

... Can't have them as pets, either...sadly as they are very intelligent animals. Crows have been show to be tool users, too...something that only recently was recognized in primates.
...


VERY smart. When I was a kid a friend of the family who owned a small farm adopted one they found fallen out of a nest after a storm and raised it. The thing would fly to the back door and pull on a little bell they had hung up whenever it wanted to go outside. An hour or so later, he'd be back at the door ringing an identical outside bell to be let back in. He'd sit for hours on the guys shoulder while he watched TV or read the paper. And it had very strong opinions on what sort of music he liked. Put the wrong thing on and he'd squawk like crazy until you changed it to something he liked. I dont recall if they had any cats or not, but the thing was best buddies with their St.Bernard. Normally us kids would be dragged kicking and screaming to go on visits where the folks didn't have any kids to play with, but we were always game to go there because of the crow.

BTW Happy 20000th!

[Jim O'Dell]

What about the 40 or so buzzards that roost in the trees around us? Walk outside at night and scare one into flight out of the top of the pecan tree on our back patio, and you go running for cover!! Very erie! Actually, for the last 2 or 3 days, I don't remember seeing them around....Hmmmm. Jim.

[John Miliunas]

John, I'll take my 20,000th post at SMC to be a "friend of the birds" and mention that you should check on whether you can legally shoot the crows. They are not game birds, or invasive non-native species and I believe that native species may be protected. Can't have them as pets, either...sadly as they are very intelligent animals. Crows have been show to be tool users, too...something that only recently was recognized in primates.

Maybe you can find a way to scare them off without killing them?

First off, a BIG congrats to your 20K posts! Loads of info, laughs and interaction coming out our way throughout those posts. Thank you!:) Hope to be around and see the next 20K, though I don't think it will take all that long! :D

Yeah, I still need to check on the DNR stance regarding this whole scenario. Even if I choose not to use it for the crows, some target plinking would be a nice and cheap diversion from time to time. :)

I have looked into some of the alternative methods using ultrasonic stuff and other "scare away" types of decoys and such. Unfortunately, the bulk of those will also scare away the birds we enjoy having around and feed year-round. It really has gotten to the point where I'm not sure that anything but a well placed round will rid us of them!

Trust me, I'm not into killing for the sake of killing. I had gotten rid of any and all firearms when our oldest was born 22 years ago! If someone has used alternative methods, which affect only crow or pigeon populace, while not scaring off the rest of the smaller birds, I'm entirely open to such recommendations! :) :cool:

[Joe Mioux]

CZ 22.

I bought one of these a few years ago, Very good quality.

Since you are wanting to buy a .22, you won't need an expensive Scope.

No recoil.

I bought mine with a Bulls barrel, which is ok but if I had to do it over I would go with a regular barrel.

Remington used to make a really great and pretty .22 , but I think they discontinued it. Ruger is good. If you want inexpensive H&R. will do nicely as well

Now, a Shot gun is great for target practice.... Clay BIRDS are lot of fun!

However, they taste awful

good quality o/u shotgun at a low price Bakail, russian made.

My personal favorite shotgun mfr'r is still Beretta. Still love my original 390ST.

Joe

[Jim Becker]

VERY smart. When I was a kid a friend of the family who owned a small farm adopted one they found fallen out of a nest after a storm and raised it. The thing would fly to the back door and pull on a little bell they had hung up whenever it wanted to go outside. An hour or so later, he'd be back at the door ringing an identical outside bell to be let back in. He'd sit for hours on the guys shoulder while he watched TV or read the paper. And it had very strong opinions on what sort of music he liked. Put the wrong thing on and he'd squawk like crazy until you changed it to something he liked. I dont recall if they had any cats or not, but the thing was best buddies with their St.Bernard. Normally us kids would be dragged kicking and screaming to go on visits where the folks didn't have any kids to play with, but we were always game to go there because of the crow.

BTW Happy 20000th!

Yes, I've heard and read many stories like this. Crows can actually talk if they have some minor surgery on their throats.

And thanks...20K gum-flappings mark on my half-century anniversary. What's not to like about that! :eek: (Wish I was home to celebrate with the family, but I'm not...:( )

[John Miliunas]

CZ 22.

I bought one of these a few years ago, Very good quality.

Since you are wanting to buy a .22, you won't need an expensive Scope.

No recoil.

I bought mine with a Bulls barrel, which is ok but if I had to do it over I would go with a regular barrel.

Remington used to make a really great and pretty .22 , but I think they discontinued it. Ruger is good. If you want inexpensive H&R. will do nicely as well

Now, a Shot gun is great for target practice.... Clay BIRDS are lot of fun!

However, they taste awful

good quality o/u shotgun at a low price Bakail, russian made.

My personal favorite shotgun mfr'r is still Beretta. Still love my original 390ST.

Joe

Thanks, Joe. Yeah, I've heard/read many good things about the CZ 452. Great shooter, reliable and accurate. Quite a few guys like the Marlins and even the entry level Savages. Haven't looked into the Beretta's, though if I recall correctly, pricing might keep that out of my grasp. Seems like many of the places around seem to embrace the 10/22, as well. That's what I used to have, as it would happen. Nice rifle, though I didn't have a scope mounted on it. If I do end up getting something, I think a scope will be a requirement, especially for my aging eye sight! :o Anyhow, thanks much for the input! Might have to lay hands on a CZ and see what it's like. :) :cool:

[Joe Mioux]

Thanks, Joe. Yeah, I've heard/read many good things about the CZ 452. Great shooter, reliable and accurate. Quite a few guys like the Marlins and even the entry level Savages. Haven't looked into the Beretta's, though if I recall correctly, pricing might keep that out of my grasp. Seems like many of the places around seem to embrace the 10/22, as well. That's what I used to have, as it would happen. Nice rifle, though I didn't have a scope mounted on it. If I do end up getting something, I think a scope will be a requirement, especially for my aging eye sight! :o Anyhow, thanks much for the input! Might have to lay hands on a CZ and see what it's like. :) :cool:

You will like the CZ 452. I have a 3x9 Tasco Scope on it. The Tasco is all you need. I can't see spending several hundred dollars on a better scope for a .22

Now, if you were talking larger rifles, then a better quality scope would be prudent.

Good Luck
Joe

[Joe Mioux]

OH and BTW,,, your first sentence in the orginal post, suggests being off-topic.... not at all.... remember the stock and forearm are made of Wood!

Also, a bit off topic but interesting. My Sister's FIL, retired from Olin Corp back in the early '90's, as ex VP.

A few years ago, he sold me a Winchester .243, which was part of a collection of four guns he had made.

He had the Pres, of U.S. repeating arms select the wood for these four rifles. I think that is pretty cool.

One of his gun cabinets is made from a walnut tree, felled at NILO. That is a pretty case.

[Joe Pelonio]

My step father plunks them all the time with hisBaikal IZH-194. It's perfect for it, combination .22 and .410, so you can target shoot and get rid of the flying rats with the same gun. As I recall it was only about $200.

[Charles McKinley]

Hi John,

It is hard to beat a 10/22 for price, reliability and just plain FUN. Ruger makes a great product and it has more accessories made for it than anyother firearm! Everything from stuff to make it a high performance target gun to a skeleton folding stock backpacker. You may be able to find one used but they are not overly expensive new.

[Brad Schmid]

John,

If you truly want a small varmint rifle with great ballistics characteristics, take a look at .17 caliber. It's a wicked little wildcat that is alot of fun to shoot. It far exceeds .22cal in muzzle velocities, distance/accuracy/trajectory. Not knocking the .22 though, it's fun too. .17 is just another option, and a great one at that...

Brad

[Dick Rowe]

John,

If you go the .22 route you may wish to use .22 bird shot ammunition.

A .22 round will travel a mile or more (if you miss of course). The bird shot ammunition is effective at shorter ranges, and offers a little forgiveness in aim.

Might be safer for your neighbors.

By the way, crows are considered 'game birds' in Wisconsin. There is a fall and winter season. The winter season ends March 20th.

However there is a clause in the rules which I have copied below.

"In addition to the general Small Game hunting regulations listed on pages 13-19,

the following are regulations specific to Unprotected Species.

Unprotected Species are described on page 3 of this pamphlet. Note: Grackles, redwinged blackbirds and cowbirds are not considered Unprotected Species and may
not be hunted for recreation purposes. They may be killed on private lands without a hunting license or federal permit ONLY IF they are causing damage or are about to cause damage to trees, crops, livestock, or wildlife; or they are concentrated in large numbers that may constitute a health hazard or other nuisance. Crows may also be killed without a federal permit and outside the normal crow season in these situations."

Happy hunting!

[John Miliunas]

Brad, I've not looked into the .17 yet. I'll check on that when I hit the gun shop! Any specific brand/model I should be looking for?

Dick, yeah, I did check on the "season" last night. Good thing to keep in mind! :) Also, wasn't even aware of the bird shot ammo for the 22. Always thought that stuff was primarily restricted to shotguns. (Shows you how much I know!:o ) If I do go 22, then I'll pick up a box of those, as well. Not a real problem with neighbors, though. The main area I'd be shooting toward is in the direction of the side of a bluff. Not occupied and plenty clear of the pasture land.

Charles, yes, very aware of the 10/22 and available mods. Everything but the kitchen sink for that there Ruger! Depending on price/availability, I still might end up with one but, mods aren't on my priority list at this point. Probably a rifle which doesn't or can't have a lot of mods is better for me. I mean, I really DO need other WW equipment and supplies, you know! :D :o :)

Thanks again for all the great info/input, gents! :cool:

[Al Willits]

John, you said 50 to 70 yards, with cost being a consideration I'd go with a 1-4 power scope and a cheap single shot .22, if all your gonna do is shoot crows with it, why spend any more than you have to?
Besides, once you fire once, chances are the rest will take to wing and that's all you'll get is one shot.

I owe a bull barreled 10/22 and it shoots nice and works great, but it sounds like its spending to much money for what you want to do.

Maybe also look for used, find one that the barrel doesn't look to bad and you'll probably be able to shoot 1" at 50 yards and that's close enough for what your doing.

Good point about shooting into the air, even a .22 can go close to a mile, if not futher.
Might try the .22 shorts, I believe the range is less with them and they are quieter to shoot, don't forget ear protection when you use any of them, a .22 can do hearing damage.

Al

[David Wilson]

John
I would recomend finding a used Marlin/Glenfield (same gun, different names) 22 semi auto. Uses a tublar magazine and holds 17 shots.
I picked mine up used at a gun show for around $60.00. They are a great gun, very acurate and easy to maintain. With a scope mounted I shoot a group at 50 yards the size of a quarter. This is shooting from a bench/table with sand bags at the range.

[Dan McGuire]

I have a Marlin bolt action, 7 shot clip, very accurate. I can shoot shorts, LR and CP caps. I had a scope, Tasco 3x9 for a time on it, but found I like shoot with iron sights better

Like others have stated, if you go with the .22 be sure of your background, those rounds can travel a distance if the intended target is missed.

Let us know what you end up getting.

[Bruce Volden]

John


Out here on the "plains", a friend of mine regularly hunts crows. They are legal to shoot and there a clubs formed that compete against each other for number of kills! He always scouts the areas and then sets up an owl decoy to shoot over. These guys use shotguns and I guess it's not uncommon to kill 50+ birds. Seems like a waste to me to kill 'em but I know folks that don't appreciate me slaughtering :D the walleyes either!


Bruce

[Kevin Beck]

If you're really set on a rifle then a Ruger 10/22 would be hard to beat. You might also investigate using an air rifle (.20 or .25 caliber) for less noise and worries about bullet travel. If you google for "crow pellet" or "crow airgun" you can find some information about this. Unfortunately a good air rifle costs as much or more than a good .22.

I live in the suburbs so no shooting pests for me. I grew up on a farm so I'm more used to dealing with pests directly.

Kevin

[Dick Rowe]

John,

I don't eat crow.

Per

You should try it ... tastes a lot like bald eagle.

[John Miliunas]

You should try it ... tastes a lot like bald eagle.

I'll pretend I didn't see that! :eek: :cool:

[David Epperson]

The CZ is a real quality way to go, pretty cheap for the price. But it will be more than the Marlin or Savage models. And don't forget to look at the 17 rimfires. (!7HMR and 17 MachII) These are accurate well beyond what a 22 will do, and are more than enough for crows and squirrels.

[David Epperson]

I'll pretend I didn't see that! :eek: :cool:
It's bit more bland than Spotted Owl though. :p

[John Miliunas]

If you're really set on a rifle then a Ruger 10/22 would be hard to beat. You might also investigate using an air rifle (.20 or .25 caliber) for less noise and worries about bullet travel. If you google for "crow pellet" or "crow airgun" you can find some information about this. Unfortunately a good air rifle costs as much or more than a good .22.

I live in the suburbs so no shooting pests for me. I grew up on a farm so I'm more used to dealing with pests directly.

Kevin

You're right about the air rifle aspect, Kevin. Checked on that some time ago and, a decent one will indeed cost more than most of the more econo models of a .22! :eek: I'm thinking I'm going to check at one of the local gun shops and see what they have to offer. Used is definitely an option, as well. Thanks! :) :cool:

[John Miliunas]

The CZ is a real quality way to go, pretty cheap for the price. But it will be more than the Marlin or Savage models. And don't forget to look at the 17 rimfires. (!7HMR and 17 MachII) These are accurate well beyond what a 22 will do, and are more than enough for crows and squirrels.

David, how does ammo costs/quality between the two compare? I see where for the .22, there's a pretty big range and LOTS of opinions on which load shoots better. I'd be quite happy taking a lot of these variable out of the equation. I'd hate to buy a gun, which I find out "doesn't shoot well" and then have it turn out to be the "wrong ammo" for the gun! Kind of like putting a crappy blade on a good saw. :) :cool:

[Al Willits]

John, a .22 is gonna be about as cheap as your gonna get.
I'd just look for some name brand hollow point .22's, I use the Winchester brand, but each gun will/may like a different brand.
Whatever rifle you buy, pick up 3 or 4 boxes of different ammo and build a target out of scape 2x2's and a cardboard backstop, staple a paper plate on the backstop and stick a post-it note cut down to about a square inch on the paper plate and wail away, find the brand that works the best both for cycling and accuracy and go kill crows...:)

If you were shooting prairie dogs at 400 yards I'd have a whole different rifle for you, but your looking for a plinking rifle and I can't see spending much money on it.
imho

Al

[Michael Gibbons]

John, A lot of shooting blunders are the shooters fault. Jerking the trigger, looking up to see if you hit your target, target panic , buck fever ETC... I have a marlin .22 with 4 power scope . I've hit racoons at 100 yards no problem. You need to use good ammo also. I use CCI stingers ,they have alot of punch,kinda pricey though. $4.00 for 50. Once you get your scope mounted, it should take about 6 shots to sight in the gun. Wal-mart has the same semi auto that I have for about $170 in stainless + $ 45 for scope and mounts. The guns usually come with a safety lock that fits either through the trigger gaurd or in the chamber. You should teach gun safety to your kid(s).

...........Mike

[Lee DeRaud]

Assuming it isn't outright illegal to shoot them there, if crows are as smart as some people seem to think they are, you probably won't have to shoot that many of them before the rest get the idea and find a safer place to roost.

Think of it as evolution in action. :cool:

[David Epperson]

David, how does ammo costs/quality between the two compare? I see where for the .22, there's a pretty big range and LOTS of opinions on which load shoots better. I'd be quite happy taking a lot of these variable out of the equation. I'd hate to buy a gun, which I find out "doesn't shoot well" and then have it turn out to be the "wrong ammo" for the gun! Kind of like putting a crappy blade on a good saw. :) :cool:
Ammo for the 17 rimfires is on par with the mid to higher end 22s. Of course the 17HMR compares to 22 magnum and the 17 MachII compares to 22LR - mainly because those are the cases they are based on. I think the 17HMR can be found in the $8-$12 per box of 50 range and the 17MachII can be found in the $3-$6 per box range. The 17's, by all reports so far, are generally more accurate. But a lot of what you might call accurate depends upon your baseline score for the definition. Much of the innacuracies one hears about in rimfire circles (My rifle likes XXX but doesn't shoot YYY for snot) is based on a benchrest or competion baseline - which includes a lot of variations that would be WAY too small to notice if all you need is "Minute of Crow" accuracy.

[Dan Gill]

Since you'll probably be shooting them out of trees, be very aware of where your bullets will fall.

That said, a .22 is as much as you'll need for crows at those distances. An air rifle might work, but as you have noted, good ones are very pricey, and I suspect you'd wound as many as you would kill outright, unless you limited yourself to head shots. Not a happy result for anyone.

From 50 - 75 yards, any decent .22 with an inexpensive scope will do the job if you do yours. Be aware that crows ARE very smart, and they will definitely see you and learn that you are the source of their troubles. Which probably will solve the problem with minimal crow deaths.

Of course, check your state laws. Your mileage may vary.

[Kyle Kraft]

I'll second Per's post. Ruger 10-22 with a mid grade Bushnell scope. Don't forget a .22 will still travel a good distance so be aware of possible collateral damage beyond the intended target. Remember to get a hunters guide from your Dept of Nat'l Resources for license requirements and seasons. Here in Michigan we have a winter and a fall crow season with a provision for crop damage as well.

[Jeffrey Fusaro]

how 'bout hiring this guy?

59577 (http://imdb.com/name/nm0001961/)


"The sum of the square roots of any two sides of an isosceles triangle is equal to the square root of the remaining side. Oh joy! Rapture! I got a brain! How can I ever thank you enough? "

he seems pretty sharp.

oughta work, as long as you don't have flying monkeys ...

[Lee DeRaud]

how 'bout hiring this guy?
Isn't he part of that gang of psychos that was going around killing people they thought were witches?

[John Miliunas]

Isn't he part of that gang of psychos that was going around killing people they thought were witches?

You know, there IS a striking resemblence! :eek: :D :cool:

[Dan Mages]

I would start with owl dummies. It is safer and simpler. If Crowes are as smart as they say, then raise a Texas flag in the back yard. That should put fear of getting shot into them :rolleyes:

As far as a rifle is concerned, I had the pleasure of shooting my friend's Walther G22 rifle. It is VERY smooth and accurate with good adaptability for lefty use. It also has a good list of accessories, most are legally available in the US. The only thing I don't like is the plastic body.

Dan

[John Miliunas]

I would start with owl dummies. It is safer and simpler. If Crowes are as smart as they say, then raise a Texas flag in the back yard. That should put fear of getting shot into them :rolleyes:

As far as a rifle is concerned, I had the pleasure of shooting my friend's Walther G22 rifle. It is VERY smooth and accurate with good adaptability for lefty use. It also has a good list of accessories, most are legally available in the US. The only thing I don't like is the plastic body.

Dan

I would tend to agree w/you on the owl dummies, however, in talking with a few folks in the "hood" about them, the dummies do indeed scare off more than just the intended crows. :( We really DO like the bulk of the bird population out by us, as well as the rest of the wildlife there so, the decoys and such probably wouldn't work as well.

As I recall, the Walther's are NOT a cheap machine! As I dig around a bit, I found that our Dick's Sporting Goods has a special going right now on a Savage 22, bolt action w/4x scope for $149.00, plus the Governer's share. For right around two bills, I should be able to cover rifle, ammo, cleaning kit and even a cheap soft case. :) I've looked at a CZ and, as nice as they are, I don't feel I need to spend the $$$ for the task(s) at hand. OK, so I'm cheap! :D :cool:

[Barry Stratton]

Lots of good advise on 22's John! The Savage you mention will do just fine. And as Lee said, once you poof a few, the rest will wise up VERY quickly. They'll also learn your "effective" range and hang around outside of it.

My advice is to determine and get rid of, if possible, whatever keeps attracting them in the first place.

And, if I'm ever in your neck of the woods, I'll toss the 220 Swift in the truck......400 yard shots are FUN!!!!

[John Miliunas]

Lots of good advise on 22's John! The Savage you mention will do just fine. And as Lee said, once you poof a few, the rest will wise up VERY quickly. They'll also learn your "effective" range and hang around outside of it.

My advice is to determine and get rid of, if possible, whatever keeps attracting them in the first place.

And, if I'm ever in your neck of the woods, I'll toss the 220 Swift in the truck......400 yard shots are FUN!!!!

400 yards!!!???? Sheeeesh...I kent even see dat fer!!! :eek: Like, you have that thing mounted on a cast iron tripod or what? Whew! Yup, that'd be long range shootin', that's for certain! :) :cool:

[John Miliunas]

Wow! I'm starting to think we have as many shooters here as we do WW's! (Wonder how the shooter forums do on the OT replies regarding WW??? :D )

Anyhow, your collective wisdom for this shooting wannabe newbie is most helpful! As stated to one of our members sending me a PM, I'm trying to keep this with the K.I.S.S. principle in mind. So, where am I at? Well, for starters, a .22 will probably be the most "adaptable" for my needs. Something which can shoot LR and shorts equally as well. Shorts most likely to keep long distance collateral damage to a minimum. If I'm understanding all this correctly, this would likely mean a bolt action. This is fine by me. I'm in no hurry to empty a complete magazine quickly. For crows, if I don't hit on the first shot, I've probably lost the shot for some time anyway. For target practice, who cares how rapidly you plug the target?:) :cool:

[David Wilson]

59583John

Maby you could get one of these. It's a 1851 Navy Colt black powder replica. Buntline style with a 12" barrel. I just got the balls for it and will be shooting as soon as the weather warms up.

[Bob Rufener]

I also live in Wisconsin and I know what it is to be surrounded by crows. There is a legal hunting season season for them in the state. I don't know for sure but would imagine that you might be required to have a hunting license of some kind. (Do you think the state would allow us to do anything for nothing???)

Hunting seasons for crows are (from the WI DNR site)

Crow (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/)



Sept. 15 - Nov. 15, 2007
Jan. 18, 2008 - Mar. 20, 2008You may want to check their web site for other information. As far as a gun, I don't have a specific one in mind. Most 22 caliber rifles with a 4x scope should do the job for you without spending an arm and a leg.

[Bill Grumbine]

John, I'll put my vote in for a .22 rifle. I have a Remington 597 which is a semi-auto comparable to (well, better than) a Ruger 10-22. :D They are fairly cheap, and my runs on Federal blue box ammo which I can get at Cabela's for $10.00 for 525 rounds. WMR .17 is going to be a lot more expensive than that, both for the rifle and the ammo. And speaking of ammo, if you do go with a .22, regardless of who makes it, you may need to try several brands of ammo to find one that it "likes" - i.e. will cycle properly and hit what you aim at regularly. It is not always the most expensive stuff that different guns like.

If you are worried about range, you can always feed it birsdshot, shorts, or longs, not just long rifle. However, if you go with a semi-auto, the birdshot is not going to cycle the action. I am lusting after a CZ 452 FS right now, but my gun budget needs to cool down for a while before SWMBO is going to let me buy anything. ;)


Wow! I'm starting to think we have as many shooters here as we do WW's!

Maybe we need to schedule a Sawmill Creek Shoot!

Bill

[Ed Breen]

Hey John,
I have a safe full of arms, but my favorite is the single shot winchester my Mom bought me when I was 11. It still delivers with shorts, longs and lrs. Don't worry about an owl decoy, nail an old hairpiece to the fence and watch what happens. Oh I could tell a very funny tale about that!
I'm impressed with the number of us who do bear arms.
Ed

[David Wilson]

Hey John,
I have a safe full of arms, but my favorite is the single shot winchester my Mom bought me when I was 11. It still delivers with shorts, longs and lrs. Don't worry about an owl decoy, nail an old hairpiece to the fence and watch what happens. Oh I could tell a very funny tale about that!
I'm impressed with the number of us who do bear arms.
Ed

It's still too cold here in Minnesota for bare arms.

[Al Willits]

OK, we're all set then, spring time crow shoot at John's, I'll throw my .22's and prairie dog guns in the truck and pick up who evers enroute.
Steaks on the grill, a keg or two (after shooting of course) and I bet John will even get a band to play...won't cha?
John I like rib eyes, so get a few extra would ya?
You got a place to stay for us John??...sure is nice of ya to invite us out for the week....

Al...who can't wait to hear how he explains this one to the wife...

[Lee DeRaud]

(Wonder how the shooter forums do on the OT replies regarding WW??? :D )Better than you'd expect, what with the guys making/fitting wooden rifle stocks and the guys building reloading benches etc. Not quite as much overlap as between guns and motorcycles, but pretty high on the "other hobby" list.

[Barry Stratton]

OK, we're all set then, spring time crow shoot at John's, I'll throw my .22's and prairie dog guns in the truck and pick up who evers enroute.

GREAT IDEA! Hey Al, I'll be moving to Fergus Falls in a few months, I'll pick you up on the way for the Fall hunt......

[Al Willits]

Sounds good Barry, give me a call when you get here...ain't often I get a chance to meet someone who comes from a colder state than here...:D

Maybe we can get John to buy a couple hundred prairie dogs for when we get done with them crows? :)
Al...who see's a yearly shoot coming up....:D

[Joe Mioux]

Here are a couple pics of WW meets shooting sports (SS)

I think this rifle has some pretty decent wood. Pic 1 and 2

here is my trailer, aka lumber hauler, aka mobile trap (I have a better trap also), aka mobile workshop cart.

[Eric Wong]

What sort of range do you need? I've got close neighbors, and sound is also an issue. For pest control (rabbits) I use an RMS break-barrel pellet gun with a little Tasco scope. Very accurate out to about 30 yards. With about 900 fps muzzle velocity, its plenty lethal. Plus I don't need to worry about ricochet danger.

[John Miliunas]

You guys are an absolute riot!!! :D Al, you're really, really trying to get my rear in trouble, aren't you? If I were to arrange a shoot like that, you'd be on your own once you got here 'cuz, the LOML would've already shot yours truly!!! :eek:

Yup, aware of "the season", as well as the notations allowing pretty much "any" time on your own property if they're causing damage, etc... I don't have to worry about the noise for neighbors. Closest house is about 1/5 ml. down the road and they're shooters themselves. Heck, dern near everyone out here shoots! :)

Eric, for "range", most of the shots would be in the 40-60yrd. range. Most would be closer to 40, I believe. Like I said earlier, pellet guns of a good quality are as or more expensive than the 22's I'm looking at. Plus, if I'm at the outer range of one, I stand a much bigger chance of just wounding the bird. I prefer not to have them suffer.

Bill, a CZ would be wonderful. I finally laid hands on one today and it is a sweet rifle. However, I've already got three high-priced hobbies: WW, kids and a wife! :D :cool:

[Lee DeRaud]

Bill, a CZ would be wonderful. I finally laid hands on one today and it is a sweet rifle. However, I've already got three high-priced hobbies: WW, kids and a wife! :D :cool:Kids and a wife...oh, ok...you need something heavier than a .22.

What? Why is everybody looking at me like that?

[John Miliunas]

Kids and a wife...oh, ok...you need something heavier than a .22.

What? Why is everybody looking at me like that?

Ahhhh, Lee...I'm assuming your wife OR kids are not in the room, are they? :D

Seriously, when I was at the gun shop today, I saw where a guy could easily outfit a nice WW shop just from the guns they had on one rack!:eek: Hmmm...Maybe I should take the LOML over there and show her how "cheap" WW really is! :D :cool:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John.........If you just have to have a rifle, then a 22 would be good but if it were me and I wanted to take care of some crows........20 gauge or 12 gauge shot gun. I have an old 12 gauge H&R Topper model 45 IIRC....full choke. I've knocked down rabbits at 65 yards. Plus...with a shot gun you don't have to worry about that bullet carrying a mile and hitting something you didn't intend.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

PS..........if we have a shoot...can I bring my 338-06 or my 284 Remington (7mm-06).........I can compete out to 300 yards with either.....I've got a spotting scope........I also bring my Ruger MarkII my wife bought me for Valentines day a few years ago......I'll need to remount the 3x9 scope on it if we go to shooting pistol silhoutte.

[David G Baker]

I would go for a 12 gauge with a full choke as well. Much more efficient in my opinion.
David B

[Barry Stratton]

.... for "range", most of the shots would be in the 40-60yrd. range.

Geez, 40 - 60 yards..........potato gun should work then! Ken from Idaho can supply your ammo:D

I'll leave the Swift at home and bring the 375 JDJ.

[Belinda Barfield]

Guys,

My honey and I have been following the varmint shoot, and ROFL. Since y'all are planning a little after shoot get together I thought you might need some recipes for crow.

crowbusters.com/recipes.htm

Honey (who states he has eaten a lot of crow) contributes the following.

While shootin' varmints soak appropriate number of alder planks in water. Clean your birds, drizzle a little olive oil over each. Season with salt and pepper. Place one small clove of garlic and some chopped onions in the cavity. Place birds breast up on waterlogged alder planks, and put em' in your smoker for an hour or so. Remove, allow to cool a little, throw away crows and eat alder planks.

I know it's an old one, but couldn't resist. :D

Happy Shootin'!

[Jeffrey Fusaro]

Better than you'd expect, what with the guys making/fitting wooden rifle stocks and the guys building reloading benches etc. Not quite as much overlap as between guns and motorcycles, but pretty high on the "other hobby" list.

uh oh!

he said the "M" word....

how about it... any "scooter scum" out there?

wadda ya ridin?

[John Miliunas]

Guys,

My honey and I have been following the varmint shoot, and ROFL. Since y'all are planning a little after shoot get together I thought you might need some recipes for crow.

crowbusters.com/recipes.htm

Honey (who states he has eaten a lot of crow) contributes the following.

While shootin' varmints soak appropriate number of alder planks in water. Clean your birds, drizzle a little olive oil over each. Season with salt and pepper. Place one small clove of garlic and some chopped onions in the cavity. Place birds breast up on waterlogged alder planks, and put em' in your smoker for an hour or so. Remove, allow to cool a little, throw away crows and eat alder planks.

I know it's an old one, but couldn't resist. :D

Happy Shootin'!

OMG, Belinda! OK, so now does your honey have a good "recipe" for cleaning spittle off my LCD panel??? :confused: :D Guess I must've led a sheltered life, as I'd never heard that one before. ROFLM..... :D :D :cool:

[John Miliunas]

uh oh!

he said the "M" word....

how about it... any "scooter scum" out there?

wadda ya ridin?

Grrrrrrrrr....Nothing anymore! :mad: When we moved to the place we're at now (came with 1000 sq.' shop), the LOML gave me a choice: Upgrade and buy equipment you need for WW or get your Harley. 'Nuf said. :( Last scooter was a '76 Beemer. (sniff, sniff....) :cool:

[Al Willits]

Pretty interesting bunch we have here...:)

John, don't sweat it, remember its easier to take the beating later than get permission before.....I'm sure you'll recover by the time we all get there....:D

Yes, it's very easier to get a fortune tied up in guns, some of the Italian shotguns go for more than I make in a year, I have shot a bit of IPSC and a race pistol can top 3-3.5k easy.
Like most things, there's extreme's and most are somewhere in the middle.

Jeff, rode for many years, have a broken foot to prove it, got tired of people in cars crashing into me, so I quit riding on the street and took up something safer, Drag racing..I drag raced a tubro'd Suzuki for many years and when Elmer Trett got killed on his bike figured it was time for me to quit too.
Miss it on them warm summer evenings though.

If these birds are at 40 yards a cheap shotgun might be the way to go, kinda depends on the background, if the .22 will end up shooting into the ground, it shouldn't be a problem, but if your shooting into tree's that 1/5 mile may not be enough distance, not so sure the bird shot .22 with reach out that far either.

Barry, you think that 375 will be enough for them crow's?? :D

Belinda, good recipe, reminds of the way to cook duck, put in a slow cooker with a chicken, add a few veggies, cook for 2.5 hours and then throw the duck away and eat the chicken..

Al......who's hoping John will be healed by the week of the shoot....:D

[John Miliunas]

Pretty interesting bunch we have here...:)

John, don't sweat it, remember its easier to take the beating later than get permission before.....I'm sure you'll recover by the time we all get there....:D


Al......who's hoping John will be healed by the week of the shoot....:D

"Healed"??? Keeeeripes...This gets out and she'll be looking for a 357 mag, not a little tacker! :eek: Afraid you just don't heal from "dead"!!! :o :) :cool:

[Joe Mioux]

John,

If you need anymore rationalization, Guns hold their value and the better they are the better the retained value!

So just go ahead get that .22 of your choice and while you're at it, throw in a 20ga shotgun. Winchester Pigeon Grade 101, or a Beretta 687EELL, or a Perazzi, or a Franchi, or a.........

don't fret the cost, consider it as part of your pension plan!;)

[Belinda Barfield]

John,

I am currently researching the appropriate wine to serve at your soiree. I'm thinking a '76 Crowdonnay, or maybe some Old Crow bourbon. You gotta stick with a theme to throw a good soiree!

[John Miliunas]

John,

If you need anymore rationalization, Guns hold their value and the better they are the better the retained value!

So just go ahead get that .22 of your choice and while you're at it, throw in a 20ga shotgun. Winchester Pigeon Grade 101, or a Beretta 687EELL, or a Perazzi, or a Franchi, or a.........

don't fret the cost, consider it as part of your pension plan!;)

Ahhhh...I think I follow your line of thought here, Joe. Buy up all those guns so that the LOML has her choice of what to shoot me with! Good thinkin'! :D After which, you guys would swarm down and pick up the lot of them for pennies on the dollar to help cover her lawyer's fees. Man, you guys just don't miss a beat, do 'ya? :D

I almost hate to say it but, after checking around, Dick's has THE best price in the area on econo .22's. Spoke to a buddy who said he might part with his 10/22 but, after he heard what Dick's was getting for the Savage (w/scope!), even he suggested I go over there and pick that up instead! Said he might even go pick one up!!! :D Got a couple quickie places to check, yet but, it looks like the Savage MK II, bolt will be the shooter of choice here. Decent reviews, reasonably accurate and most affordable. I'll let you guys know for sure what eventually comes home with me. Thanks again for all the wise info! (And the wisecracks, as well!:D ) :cool:

[John Miliunas]

John,

I am currently researching the appropriate wine to serve at your soiree. I'm thinking a '76 Crowdonnay, or maybe some Old Crow bourbon. You gotta stick with a theme to throw a good soiree!

Oh sure...Next I suppose, you'll be saying that I'm going to have to set up a field of play for some crow-quette, too??? :D :cool:

[Belinda Barfield]

Oh sure...Next I suppose, you'll be saying that I'm going to have to set up a field of play for some crow-quette, too??? :D :cool:
GOOD 'UN!!:D

Well of course, what's a garden party without a little crow-quette! Are you going to have a bartender at your Crow Bar?

[John Miliunas]

GOOD 'UN!!:D

Well of course, what's a garden party without a little crow-quette! Are you going to have a bartender at your Crow Bar?

Well heck yeah! Was even considering some live entertainment. Thinking that for such an event, maybe Sheryl would consider coming. :D :cool:

[Belinda Barfield]

Yeah, Sheryl would be good. You already got a band of Black Crowes!

[Belinda Barfield]

Checked with Honey and he tells me Sheryl is currently in tour in Crow-atia.

Maybe we could drop "n" and have a glass of Crow Royal!:p

[Ken Fitzgerald]

This is Ken in Idaho......looking down.....shaking his head.........:rolleyes:

[David Epperson]

(Wonder how the shooter forums do on the OT replies regarding WW??? :D )


I usually refer them back to here :D I'm on a lot more shooters forums than I am on WW forums. But then again I more guns than saws or routers. (Also been doing it longer, I'm new at WW).

[Belinda Barfield]

This is Ken in Idaho......looking down.....shaking his head.........:rolleyes:

Please tell me you are laughing as well! ;)

[John Miliunas]

I usually refer them back to here :D I'm on a lot more shooters forums than I am on WW forums. But then again I more guns than saws or routers. (Also been doing it longer, I'm new at WW).

Glad you're "forwarding" them here, David! After visiting a few of those shooting forums, I can certainly see how some of the WW "newbies" feel when they come on board to a WW forum! :o That is the one real nice thing about SMC: I sincerely believe the membership here tries to make even the "greenest" WW feel welcome and allowed to ask the most rudimentary question(s) without recourse or teasing. :) Actually, the shooting forums I've visited also appear to be quite civil. Kind of reassuring, really! :) :cool:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Actually, the shooting forums I've visited also appear to be quite civil. Kind of reassuring, really! :) :cool:

John....You act surprised....I never upset someone who's armed......:D

[John Miliunas]

John....You act surprised....I never upset someone who's armed......:D

AMEN to that, my friend! :D :cool:

[Karl Laustrup]

This is Karl.............in the Dells...............looking down.............wondering if I can join in the 1st annual "Spring into Spring with Spring" hunt?

I'll bring my pea shooter.
59661

Karl

[John Miliunas]

This is Karl.............in the Dells...............looking down.............wondering if I can join in the 1st annual "Spring into Spring with Spring" hunt?

I'll bring my pea shooter.
59661

Karl

Only if you bring enough ammo for ALL of us to try it! :D :cool:

[Bill Grumbine]

Well then if we are all coming with guns for crows, I guess I will have to bring my AAA gun with me (anti avian artillery)! :D

http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/puffthedragon

The only bad thing would be if the crows arm themselves. It has happened before, only with cows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkHCDkYkYnk

Bill

[John Miliunas]

Well then if we are all coming with guns for crows, I guess I will have to bring my AAA gun with me (anti avian artillery)! :D



The only bad thing would be if the crows arm themselves. It has happened before, only with cows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkHCDkYkYnk

Bill

OMG...That's funny! Hmmm...Guess I'd better warn the neighboring farmers to be sure they keep their tractor keys with them, lest they get stolen. In which case, of course, we'd have to call in the famous detective, CrowJack! :eek: :D :cool:

[Belinda Barfield]

Bill,

Loved those cows with guns!

John,

Hope those crows aren't running a reconnaissance mission in preparation for the hunt. They probably have their tiny little binoculars trained on your monitor as we speak. If so, you may have Crows in Choppers!:D

Thanks so much for all the laughs today. This week has not been so good for me and I really needed something to lighten my mood. I know the intention was to discuss your fire power needs, and I apologize to those who may not have appreciated that we got a little off track.

Thanks again!

[John Miliunas]

Bill,

Loved those cows with guns!

John,

Hope those crows aren't running a reconnaissance mission in preparation for the hunt. They probably have their tiny little binoculars trained on your monitor as we speak. If so, you may have Crows in Choppers!:D

Thanks so much for all the laughs today. This week has not been so good for me and I really needed something to lighten my mood. I know the intention was to discuss your fire power needs, and I apologize to those who may not have appreciated that we got a little off track.

Thanks again!

I would not have imagined this thread heading off in the direction it did but, I too, am happy it did! :D If there are folks who feel the need for total and absolute seriousness and OnTopic discussion, head on over to the Turners' Forum. We're always ON topic and serious over there! :rolleyes: :D :cool:

[Belinda Barfield]

Uh huh! I follow you guys over there as well. Last time I checked y'all were discussing the nutrional value of grubs! :eek: Very On Topic as far as I'm concerned.:D

[John Miliunas]

Uh huh! I follow you guys over there as well. Last time I checked y'all were discussing the nutrional value of grubs! :eek: Very On Topic as far as I'm concerned.:D

Ooooooooooooooooooops.....Busted! :eek: :D Aw heck, if you can't have a friendly good time out here, what's the point, right? :D :cool:

[Belinda Barfield]

Ooooooooooooooooooops.....Busted! :eek: :D Aw heck, if you can't have a friendly good time out here, what's the point, right? :D :cool:

You got that right! That's why I'm here. Swimming in the Creek is just plain fun.

[Al Willits]

Can ya shoot grubs????


Al

[Jeffrey Fusaro]

Can ya shoot grubs????


Al



yes, but the get a little bit cripsy on the way out of the barrel.

they don't travel too far, either...

[Belinda Barfield]

Yep, you can shoot grubs straight out of the glass - just like the tequila! Okay, so it's really a worm in the tequila but I bet the distillers substitute grubs from time to time. Maybe it's grubs you shoot with moonshine. Can't remember now, probably the result of too many shots.

Now I have to come up with another menu item. I think the proper drink to serve with grubs would be Apple Pucker.

[Kyle Kraft]

If noise is an issue, use subsonic rounds. By the way, crows hate owls, in Michigan we use owl decoys to ATTRACT crows so we can shoot 'em!! Also, I wouldn't recommend running bird shot routinely through a rifled barrel, any more than you would run target loads through a rifled slug barrel. It's okay for a kill shot when putting down a home invasion, but not for everyday shooting.:)

[Hal Flynt]

Well I wasn’t going to reply, but this has gotten fun. First ditto on the Ruger 10/22 as a good choice and there are tons of accessories in the aftermarket. The CZ's are also great guns.

Your subject line "Varmint" Shooter first attracted me and I was going to say 22-250 sighted in for 200 yds. Aim 1" high at 300 yds and 1" low at 100 yds. 4000 fps. With hand loads, I can make 3/4" groupings at 100 yds, my best was 4 shots under a dime, at 100 yds.

Crows are known to hold funerals and visit the recently departed and carry on rather vocally. This creates a situation for more dearly departed and more funerals. Of course they won't hold the funeral if they can see you or hear you, but at 300-500 yds it can be a challenge on both sides.:D

[Ryan Cathey]

My dad had a crow when he was about my age. They were cutting down a tree and my grandfather saw the nest so he shimmied up the tree and grabbed one of the hatch-lings. My dad and his siblings would throw a marble over the roof of their house and the crow would fly over, find it, then drop it on the roof so it would roll down to be caught and then thrown over again. Sadly one day it ventured too far into a field and some jacka$$ shot it from his truck then drove off.

-Ryan C.

[Brad Hammond]

i'll second third and quadruple the hints toward a .17. i've got the savage 93 in .17hmr and i flat love it. i've also got the .17mach2 and it's a screamer too. major major improvement in accuracy compared to the .22lr.
my two cents!
cya!

[Al Willits]

Considering he's only shooting 40 to 70 yards I doubt the added price of the .17 would be worth it, nice little plinker, but a bit more than he needs imho.
Plus .22 ammo is cheap and available almost anywhere, and the hollow points will do a nice job on crows, does on prairie dogs anyway..:)

Nothing like a .223 50 grain ballistic tip at 3570 fps though....gysers of guts...:D

Al....who's thinking Bill and Karl may have just put a new meaning to the word "overkill" but would like to shoot either of them...er...the weapons, not them.:D

[Dan Mages]

Alright, you primitive screw-heads, listen up! See this? This... is my boomstick! - [continuing nonchalantly] - It's a twelve-gauge, double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about $109.95. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt-blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right... shop smart. Shop S-Mart... You got that?!!


:D

[Ed Breen]

Well, C'mon Don
I've got a Fulton Special double 12 hanging on my wall. Cost @29.00 brand new. Oh yeah, that was a looooong time ago!
It still can do the job.
Ed:) :)

[John Miliunas]

Hmmmm....Seems that you guys with your thoughts on shotguns may indeed be the winners here! After talking to sales guys at no less than 5 stores, I finally stopped at a small town gunsmith shop today, on the way home from taking my daughter to the airport. Told the gentleman what I was looking for and then why. He said I may want to rethink that, because it turns out, hunting Crow in WI is illegal with rifles!!! :eek: According to DNR regulations, "Migratory and Game Birds" (which include the Crow), HAVE to be hunting with shotgun only!!! And, shotguns not capable of holding more than 3 shells! He said he himself just found this out a few days ago and, a couple of the other guys in there raised their eyebrows, as well. Seems none of them had heard that before. 'Course, these gents weren't exactly into shooting crows, but still. Hunters just the same. Man, if that don't just take the wind right out of my sails!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....:mad: I had hoped for a .22 to zap the Crows AND get a little target shooting in, as well. Not sure I want to spend the $$$'s on a single-purpose firearm, as I'm not otherwise a hunter. Dang, sometimes, a guy just can't catch a break! :o :cool:

[Al Willits]

Used John, think used then...:D

Maybe try a few of the sporting good stores that offer used guns and ya can pick up a cheap single shot for little or nothing.

We're trying John, ya gotta be shooting something for the big shoot this spring....:D

Al

[John Miliunas]

Used John, think used then...:D

Maybe try a few of the sporting good stores that offer used guns and ya can pick up a cheap single shot for little or nothing.

We're trying John, ya gotta be shooting something for the big shoot this spring....:D

Al

Yeah, yeah...I know, I know! :eek: Let's see...A 20ga. for Crows. A .22 for 4-legged pests. A .17 for target. A doghouse for me......:o :D :cool:

[John Shuk]

Ruger 10/22. Great gun.

[Joe Mioux]

You know the whole premise of you buying a rifle for shooting birds always did bother me. The only way you could do it safely if they were on the ground.

John, SHOTGUNS...... Beretta 687 EELL !!!!!!!!!

or a 686... something.

Now, when are you having your sporting clays shoot...!!!!!!????????????

Joe

[John Miliunas]

John, SHOTGUNS...... Beretta 687 EELL !!!!!!!!!

or a 686... something.

Now, when are you having your sporting clays shoot...!!!!!!????????????

Joe

Yikes! At this rate, maybe I'd best think of getting the doghouse first!:eek: I shore do hope it warms up pretty soon 'round here! :D :cool:

[Jude Tuliszewski]

John, if'in yer gona get all those, then ya need to git yerself one of these fer the larger 4 leged animals.:eek: http://www.specialoperations.com/Weapons/Light_Fifty/default2.html

[John Miliunas]

John, if'in yer gona get all those, then ya need to git yerself one of these fer the larger 4 leged animals.:eek: http://www.specialoperations.com/Weapons/Light_Fifty/default2.html

Yup! I could go deer hunting in three different counties and never leave my property with that one! :D :cool:

[Joe Mioux]

Yikes! At this rate, maybe I'd best think of getting the doghouse first!:eek: I shore do hope it warms up pretty soon 'round here! :D :cool:

You have the technology AND WE KNOW YOU HAVE THE TOOLS!!!!!! :D

Start building!!!!! :)

[Al Willits]

I think John's getting into the swing of it, shotgun, .22, .17, anti aircraft, gatling gun or two, tank, 50 cal, maybe a couple 500 S&W pistols, ya...sounds good....I think that would be a good start...
Clay pigeons huh?....seems I have a shotgun somewhere...:)

Al......who thinks its gonna be a noisey week at John's:D

[John Miliunas]

You guys are killin' me over here!!! :eek:

Seriously, I spoke to the LOML and she still wants "out" with all the crows. I told her about the rifle NOT being an option for making the crows exit stage left. She insists that I find something used. Any recommendations/leads for what I should look for in a shotgun? (With your help, I now know what I shoulda' got for a .22 but, different ball game now!:mad: ) But remember, I don't have the time/desire/money for all kinds of other hunting! Sheeesh...Can't blow MORE of my WW funds, you know!!! :) :cool:

[Dan Mages]

John,

You can always borrow my 1960s vintage Daisy pea shooter pistol. I have about 10000 rounds sitting in the closet...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/DanMages/P1010199.jpg

Dan

[John Miliunas]

John,

You can always borrow my 1960s vintage Daisy pea shooter pistol. I have about 10000 rounds sitting in the closet...

Dan

Egads, Dan...That thing looks as though it's never been out of the box! :) Way back when, I used to have a little .22 Ruger pistol. Gotta' admit; It was a lot of fun! :) Also used to own a nice Winchester, lever action 44 mag. Not real accurate way out there (short barrel) but, at close distance, I think it coulda' stopped a charging rhino! And, even with a heavy charge, kickback was not bad at all. :) :cool:

[Frank Chaffee]

John, great thread, and I sympathize with you for your problem. Between this thread and another I have been grubbin’ my belly so hard cuz of laughing that I really thought I was gonna crowk.

I don’t know why the crows are such a problem at your house. Here, on the other side of the river from you, our house also borders ag lands on one side and steep hills on the other. Mammals and our feathered avian friends cycle through bird-feeder territory in turn, from pre-dawn to early dark. Deer, squirrels, Crows, Blue Jays… etc down through the less aggressive birds. Seems that each group takes two turns at feeding every day.

When I was a child I loved hearing the caw-speech of the crow. In my library was a book by Ernest Thompson Seton; Wild Animals I Have Known. The story “Silverspot”, about a crow, remains for me to this day one of the most moving works of, I think, nonfiction I have ever read.

Since that youthful connection with the Crow I have learned of other, and mythological reasons for my current reverence of that noisy bird. I now also understand why some take such joy in silencing that voice.

Smart as Crows are (and smart as you are), I bet you could discourage them from doing whatever bugs Jill without killing any of them. Light gauge shotgun raising dust near where they land to feed? Etc… How about cherry bombs launched in sabots from airline pressure? Ball valve with pipe barrel, connected to air hose…

So anyhow my Friend, I know you’ve got what it takes to become the “Crow Whisper”.

…and if anyone can help me out with my darned squirrel problem… yes, the ones I blow away with the 10-22 when they start to eat into the house, please speak up!!! Somehow, the image of whispering to a squirrel is beyond my imagining.

[David G Baker]

John,
Crows are intelligent. Maybe they can read. Print a copy of this thread and show it to the crows. Bet they will leave and never come back.
You didn't get this information from me, you know those little green pellets that come in 4"x4"X3/4" brown and white boxes that have the big white arrow on them that says lift here? Mixed well with corn and placed in areas where domesticated critters can't access them, might do the trick. May not be legal but................
David B

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John, great thread, and I sympathize with you for your problem. Between this thread and another I have been grubbin’ my belly so hard cuz of laughing that I really thought I was gonna crowk.

I don’t know why the crows are such a problem at your house. Here, on the other side of the river from you, our house also borders ag lands on one side and steep hills on the other. Mammals and our feathered avian friends cycle through bird-feeder territory in turn, from pre-dawn to early dark. Deer, squirrels, Crows, Blue Jays… etc down through the less aggressive birds. Seems that each group takes two turns at feeding every day.

When I was a child I loved hearing the caw-speech of the crow. In my library was a book by Ernest Thompson Seton; Wild Animals I Have Known. The story “Silverspot”, about a crow, remains for me to this day one of the most moving works of, I think, nonfiction I have ever read.

Since that youthful connection with the Crow I have learned of other, and mythological reasons for my current reverence of that noisy bird. I now also understand why some take such joy in silencing that voice.

Smart as Crows are (and smart as you are), I bet you could discourage them from doing whatever bugs Jill without killing any of them. Light gauge shotgun raising dust near where they land to feed? Etc… How about cherry bombs launched in sabots from airline pressure? Ball valve with pipe barrel, connected to air hose…

So anyhow my Friend, I know you’ve got what it takes to become the “Crow Whisper”.

…and if anyone can help me out with my darned squirrel problem… yes, the ones I blow away with the 10-22 when they start to eat into the house, please speak up!!! Somehow, the image of whispering to a squirrel is beyond my imagining.

This is Ken in Idaho.........looking down...........shaking his head.......wondering who undid the straps on Frank's jacket?

[David G Baker]

John, great thread, and I sympathize with you for your problem. Between this thread and another I have been grubbin’ my belly so hard cuz of laughing that I really thought I was gonna crowk.

I don’t know why the crows are such a problem at your house. Here, on the other side of the river from you, our house also borders ag lands on one side and steep hills on the other. Mammals and our feathered avian friends cycle through bird-feeder territory in turn, from pre-dawn to early dark. Deer, squirrels, Crows, Blue Jays… etc down through the less aggressive birds. Seems that each group takes two turns at feeding every day.

When I was a child I loved hearing the caw-speech of the crow. In my library was a book by Ernest Thompson Seton; Wild Animals I Have Known. The story “Silverspot”, about a crow, remains for me to this day one of the most moving works of, I think, nonfiction I have ever read.

Since that youthful connection with the Crow I have learned of other, and mythological reasons for my current reverence of that noisy bird. I now also understand why some take such joy in silencing that voice.

Smart as Crows are (and smart as you are), I bet you could discourage them from doing whatever bugs Jill without killing any of them. Light gauge shotgun raising dust near where they land to feed? Etc… How about cherry bombs launched in sabots from airline pressure? Ball valve with pipe barrel, connected to air hose…

So anyhow my Friend, I know you’ve got what it takes to become the “Crow Whisper”.

…and if anyone can help me out with my darned squirrel problem… yes, the ones I blow away with the 10-22 when they start to eat into the house, please speak up!!! Somehow, the image of whispering to a squirrel is beyond my imagining.
Frank,
I had a squirrel problem a few years back. I purchased a live trap and baited it with black sun flower seeds. Over the past 3 years I have caught and released well over 100 squirrels (black, gray, brown and the small red squirrels) as well as an equal amount of chipmunks. I would sometimes catch 3 a day.
I would drive approximately 3-5 miles and release them into the forest. I have a bigger trap that I use to catch raccoon. I have caught around 10 of them.
I only start trapping when they become a problem.
I don't know of a trap for crows. The only way I know of to get rid of them is destroy them or get rid of the reason they are hanging around.
David B

[Frank Chaffee]

This is Ken in Idaho.........looking down...........shaking his head.......wondering who undid the straps on Frank's jacket?
I undid em myself at a very young age, Ken.:cool: :eek:

[Joe Mioux]

You guys are killin' me over here!!! :eek:

Seriously, I spoke to the LOML and she still wants "out" with all the crows. I told her about the rifle NOT being an option for making the crows exit stage left. She insists that I find something used. Any recommendations/leads for what I should look for in a shotgun? (With your help, I now know what I shoulda' got for a .22 but, different ball game now!:mad: ) But remember, I don't have the time/desire/money for all kinds of other hunting! Sheeesh...Can't blow MORE of my WW funds, you know!!! :) :cool:

If you haven't guessed yet, I have a few shotguns and rifles.

A Remington 1100 is a nice solid gun. I bought a used one back in the early '90's for $300. It also came with an slug barrel.

There are alot of shotguns in this price range both new and used.

If I were you I would go with a semi-auto or an over and under. My third choice would a pump action. If a pump, a Remington 870 is good choice.

Either a 20 ga or 12 ga. If I had to pick only one, I would say go 12 ga and use light target loads if you want to reduce some of the recoil.

Now if you want to spend a little more, a Beretta 390/391 in the $600ish plus range is very nice. this is also a semi-auto. Browning A5 is also a classic in the Semi-auto shooter. Again this a Mid-priced good solid shooter.

[Dick Rowe]

John,

If a shotgun is the only option, and you are looking to minimize cost while still being able to dispatch the occasional 'critter' you may want to consider a simple .410 single shot.

I think you can probably find one at Fleet Farm for under $100.

[Karl Laustrup]

This is Karl.............in the Dells...............looking down.............wondering if I can join in the 1st annual "Spring into Spring with Spring" hunt?

I'll bring my pea shooter.
59661

Karl

I think your back yard is in range Spring. Give me the co-ordinates and I'll lob a few rounds down that way.

And would somebody do up the arms on Arena's jacket again, PLEASE?? ;) ;) :D

This is Karl.............in the Dells..................looking down.............shaking his head....................wondering at what point this thread took on a life of it's own????? :D :D

Karl

[Dan Mages]

Egads, Dan...That thing looks as though it's never been out of the box! :) Way back when, I used to have a little .22 Ruger pistol. Gotta' admit; It was a lot of fun! :) Also used to own a nice Winchester, lever action 44 mag. Not real accurate way out there (short barrel) but, at close distance, I think it coulda' stopped a charging rhino! And, even with a heavy charge, kickback was not bad at all. :) :cool:

It probably hasn't been out of the box. We found this sucker sitting on a shelf in my uncle's hardware store as we were cleaning it up and shutting it down. Some of the other gems include a Model T (or A?) radiator flag holder, A 12" long drop forged screwdriver, and an adjustable width spade bit. I could open a small museum with the stuff we kept from the store.

Dan

[John Miliunas]

John,

If a shotgun is the only option, and you are looking to minimize cost while still being able to dispatch the occasional 'critter' you may want to consider a simple .410 single shot.

I think you can probably find one at Fleet Farm for under $100.

Dick, NOW you're talkin' the kind of thing which fits up my alley! A c-note for the machine, plus a few shells and cleaning kit sounds like a probable deal. However, F&F may not be an option! I just checked at the Baraboo store last weekend. Outside of a LOT of ammo, air rifles and general hunting gear, they no longer carry actual firearms! Same thing with the Walfart stores around here. I wonder what gives? :confused: Anyhow, thanks for that recommendation! I'll do some checking. :) :cool:

[Karl Laustrup]

However, F&F may not be an option! I just checked at the Baraboo store last weekend. Outside of a LOT of ammo, air rifles and general hunting gear, they no longer carry actual firearms! Same thing with the Walfart stores around here. I wonder what gives? :confused: Anyhow, thanks for that recommendation! I'll do some checking. :) :cool:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=53575

Disgruntled employees and customers maybe???

Karl

[John Miliunas]

I think your back yard is in range Spring. Give me the co-ordinates and I'll lob a few rounds down that way.

Please, please don't try that! Just like the springs on the X-31, you'd get x-y axis screwed up and plant the shell right on top of my shop!!!:eek:


And would somebody do up the arms on Arena's jacket again, PLEASE?? ;) ;) :D

Dang it! Looks like I'm going to have to go back over there and reinforce those straps! (Again!) :rolleyes:


This is Karl.............in the Dells..................looking down.............shaking his head....................wondering at what point this thread took on a life of it's own????? :D :D

Karl

It has??? I don't think so. BTW, what is it we were talking about? :o :D :cool:

[Belinda Barfield]

Somehow, the image of whispering to a squirrel is beyond my imagining.

Frank,

After Hurricane Floyd whistled through several years ago I raised a baby squirrel that was blown out of a nest. Bottle fed him every two hours and the whole nine yards. He loved to watch baseball, and was a big Braves fan. (Maybe he wasn't so smart?) I did learn to communicate with him on a very, very basic level, so I guess if I can be a Squirrel Whisperer, surely John can be the Bird Whisperer!

[Belinda Barfield]

John,

My, my, my . . . this is turning into quite the event! You have had such a wonderful response maybe all of us should think about organizing a Creek Meet and Greet somewhere this Summer - minus the firepower. Although it sounds like you guys could have a blast at a shooting range - so maybe that should be incorporated into the weekend. I think Karl may have to downsize though, unless he drives a mighty big truck.

Ready . . . aim . . . fire! Oh, wait - that sounds a little too much like a firing squad. Hope that's not LOYL isn't firing one across your bow as a warning. Maybe she's just shootin' at the crows.

Caw Caw for now.

[John Miliunas]

Frank,

After Hurricane Floyd whistled through several years ago I raised a baby squirrel that was blown out of a nest. Bottle fed him every two hours and the whole nine yards. He loved to watch baseball, and was a big Braves fan. (Maybe he wasn't so smart?) I did learn to communicate with him on a very, very basic level, so I guess if I can be a Squirrel Whisperer, surely John can be the Bird Whisperer!

Oh, I'll be "whispering" alright! "OK, take a breath, be sure it's in your sights, partially exhale, hold it, steady, pull trigger." See...I'll be whispering to it. Can't say for sure that the shotgun would be quite as polite, though. :D :cool:

[John Miliunas]

When I was a child

You were once a child???? :D



…and if anyone can help me out with my darned squirrel problem… yes, the ones I blow away with the 10-22 when they start to eat into the house, please speak up!!! Somehow, the image of whispering to a squirrel is beyond my imagining.

Oh, now that's just too easy! Train your buddies, the Crows, to hunt down the squirrels and peck them to death! Problem solved. :D OR, we could just as easily divert the "Spring Crow Shoot" to your place and make it a "Squirrel Hunt" instead!!! We've already got plenty of volunteers with the necessary artillery! Any other problem pests? Sure these guys would be more than happy to assist! :D :cool:

[Karl Laustrup]

You were once?? a child???? :D




we could just as easily divert the "Spring Crow Shoot" to your place and make it a "Squirrel Hunt" instead!!! We've already got plenty of volunteers with the necessary artillery! Any other problem pests? Sure these guys would be more than happy to assist! :D :cool:

Yeah!! I'd prolly only have to move an inch or so to zero in on Arena's co-ordinates. :D

Karl

[Al Willits]

Ya have a Wall mart John?

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=420393

$119 for a single shot shotgun, several gauges btw

Or as smart as some say these birds are, maybe go out and negotiate a settlement with them...maybe offer a bag of feed, deposited a half mile down the rode .... say one bag every two weeks???

So....what week is this Creeker gathering gonna happen, I need to put in for vacation and do some reloading..

Al

[John Miliunas]

Ya have a Wall mart John?

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=420393

$119 for a single shot shotgun, several gauges btw

Or as smart as some say these birds are, maybe go out and negotiate a settlement with them...maybe offer a bag of feed, deposited a half mile down the rode .... say one bag every two weeks???

So....what week is this Creeker gathering gonna happen, I need to put in for vacation and do some reloading..

Al

OK, so maybe I'm gonna' sound a bit like some President we've heard but, "There will be no negotiations! These are terrorists and they have put forth an invitation for war. I will prevail!" Besides, if I put bags of feed out, these suckers will just invite all their friends and relatives over and I'll end up buying MORE feed and MORE feed, etc... It won't take long to equal the price of a nice gun! :D

Looks like we might have to check w/Frank on the "Gathering". Squirrels in the house are worse than Crows on the trees! The only question I have is: If'n I get the shotgun, will I still need to get a .22 for the squirrel hunt??? :confused:

Oh yeah...Thanks for the lead on Walfart. So far, the two stores I checked around here, don't have any firearms available any longer! Need to check some of the others. That is a good price-point and I don't really care if it's single shot. Heck, after the first "burst", the rest will scatter, anyway. Well, at least, scatter long enough for me to load the next shell! :D :cool:

[Belinda Barfield]

[quote=John Miliunas]Besides, if I put bags of feed out, these suckers will just invite all their friends and relatives over and I'll end up buying MORE feed and MORE feed, etc... It won't take long to equal the price of a nice gun! :D [quote]

Sir, I believe we resemble that remark!:D :D

[Bill Grumbine]

John, there is always,... The Judge. :D

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=4410TrackerSS&category=Revolver

This one shoots .45 Long Colt and .410 shotgun shells. Of course, you will have to get a little closer to the crows for it to be effective.

Bill

[John Miliunas]

Sir, I believe we resemble that remark!:D :D

Well, usually I would say, "The more the merrier." However, in the case of the Crows, I'm not quite so sure! :eek:

BTW and FWIW, I usually reserve "Sir" for my Dad and those currently or past members in one of the US Armed Forces! I'm not deserving of that title! :) :cool:

[John Miliunas]

John, there is always,... The Judge. :D

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=4410TrackerSS&category=Revolver

This one shoots .45 Long Colt and .410 shotgun shells. Of course, you will have to get a little closer to the crows for it to be effective.

Bill

Hey Bill, that's one sweet piece! :) Only 4X's what I have to spend on something but, sweet none-the-less! :) :cool:

[Mandell Mann]

Crows are very smart creatures. If you mess with one in a tree you've messed with them all. My uncle shot a crow before and he couldn't go in his backyard for a week. The crows fought back:eek: If I was to shoot at the crows I would use a sawed off double barrow with 3 inch mag so that I could hit a dozen at once.:D

[Bill Grumbine]

John, you can't pay attention to those list prices. It's just like woodworking tools. It ain't gonna compete with a single shot shotgun for price or range, but they do shoot real nice. ;) It would make an excellent home defense piece too.

Bill

[John Miliunas]

Crows are very smart creatures. If you mess with one in a tree you've messed with them all. My uncle shot a crow before and he couldn't go in his backyard for a week. The crows fought back:eek: If I was to shoot at the crows I would use a sawed off double barrow with 3 inch mag so that I could hit a dozen at once.:D

Yeah, I hear 'ya! It's been said that the other crows show up for the "funeral" of the latest fatality! And then more for the next one and so on and so forth. OTOH, if they're so danged smart, they'll eventually realize their "frequent flier miles" are better suited to go deeper into the valley! :D :cool:

[John Miliunas]

John, you can't pay attention to those list prices. It's just like woodworking tools. It ain't gonna compete with a single shot shotgun for price or range, but they do shoot real nice. ;) It would make an excellent home defense piece too.

Bill

May do a bit of checking on that but, I'm thinking a handgun might be a bit tougher to get past the "main office", if you catch my drift! :o :) :cool:

[David G Baker]

Anyone remember the Alfred Hitchcock movie "THE BIRDS"?
David B

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John.....this is a "no kidder"......My wife and a neighbor's wife put out feeders to feed the birds. Then we started finding bird feathers lying around our backyard. One day I was sitting on the patio drinking a cup of coffee. There were 8-10 birds feeding on the 2 feeders ............ I saw a flash and observed a hawk with one of the birds pinned to the ground. The hawk readjusted it's grip and took it's lunch home. I went in the house and told Sharon how nice it was for her to set up an avian buffet for the hawks. She thought I was teasing her. A couple days later our youngest son and wife was visiting. He had just returned from a 6 month deployment on the USS Carl Vinson. We were sitting at the dining room table looking out the picture window into the backyard when I retold the tale. The hawk must have overheard the conversation and decided to demonstrate it's technique for my youngest son. We started teasing the LOML.....Mrs. Fitzgerald's Avian Buffet.......After she observed the hunting action herself, she quit feeding the birds.....I guess she thought it was more humane for the birds to starve to death in the winter than to become hawk lunch!

[John Miliunas]

John.....this is a "no kidder"......My wife and a neighbor's wife put out feeders to feed the birds. Then we started finding bird feathers lying around our backyard. One day I was sitting on the patio drinking a cup of coffee. There were 8-10 birds feeding on the 2 feeders ............ I saw a flash and observed a hawk with one of the birds pinned to the ground. The hawk readjusted it's grip and took it's lunch home. I went in the house and told Sharon how nice it was for her to set up an avian buffet for the hawks. She thought I was teasing her. A couple days later our youngest son and wife was visiting. He had just returned from a 6 month deployment on the USS Carl Vinson. We were sitting at the dining room table looking out the picture window into the backyard when I retold the tale. The hawk must have overheard the conversation and decided to demonstrate it's technique for my youngest son. We started teasing the LOML.....Mrs. Fitzgerald's Avian Buffet.......After she observed the hunting action herself, she quit feeding the birds.....I guess she thought it was more humane for the birds to starve to death in the winter than to become hawk lunch!

Wow! Bet that was a sight to see! :eek: We have some Hawks and even see an Eagle from time to time. It seems that both species must've developed a taste for mice or other small ground critters, as we don't see them attacking the smaller, more "domestic" birds. Seems our bird feeders have been pretty clear of those types of predators. We do, however, have a stray cat hanging around now looking for a "free lunch"! :mad: Now, if they would change up their menu a bit and attack the dang Crows, we'd all be set! :D :cool:

[Karl Laustrup]

John.....this is a "no kidder"......My wife and a neighbor's wife put out feeders to feed the birds. Then we started finding bird feathers lying around our backyard. One day I was sitting on the patio drinking a cup of coffee. There were 8-10 birds feeding on the 2 feeders ............ I saw a flash and observed a hawk with one of the birds pinned to the ground. The hawk readjusted it's grip and took it's lunch home. I went in the house and told Sharon how nice it was for her to set up an avian buffet for the hawks. She thought I was teasing her. A couple days later our youngest son and wife was visiting. He had just returned from a 6 month deployment on the USS Carl Vinson. We were sitting at the dining room table looking out the picture window into the backyard when I retold the tale. The hawk must have overheard the conversation and decided to demonstrate it's technique for my youngest son. We started teasing the LOML.....Mrs. Fitzgerald's Avian Buffet.......After she observed the hunting action herself, she quit feeding the birds.....I guess she thought it was more humane for the birds to starve to death in the winter than to become hawk lunch!

I've got a couple of hawks [a Coopers & a Redtail] that treat my feeders as "fast food takeout". I'm not all that keen on it but, that's the way it is in the wild. Hawks will eat just about anything they can carry. They aren't big enough to go for crows or squirrels though. An Eagle maybe could go for the crows and squirrels but, Eagles would rather eat carrion than hunt something themselves.

Karl

[David Epperson]

I just did a quick search for Wisconsin Crow Hunting on Dogpile.com. The on-line list of migratory birds does NOT list crow.
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/index.htm
But a lew other WI hunting sites do talk about hunting them with a shotgun and using an electronic caller with an owl decoy.
A Remington 870 pump might be in order. Used these are bot ecpensive and can pull double duty as home defense. :D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

My neighbor to the east has a very large maple tree that's shadow cools my shop in the summertime. A couple of years ago one evening there was a female bald eagle sitting in the top of it. A neighbor down the street 3 or 4 houses has a huge weeping willow tree in her yard. We had a mother owl set up residence there for a couple of years. I've actually had the immature owls rest on the bottom chords of the rafters of my carport roof. At the time of the owls, my neighbor and I had huge gardens. We often had rabbits nesting there with young'uns. Well, after the arrival of Momma owl.....we quit seeing "younguns".....

[Lee DeRaud]

John.....this is a "no kidder"......My wife and a neighbor's wife put out feeders to feed the birds. Then we started finding bird feathers lying around our backyard. One day I was sitting on the patio drinking a cup of coffee. There were 8-10 birds feeding on the 2 feeders ............ I saw a flash and observed a hawk with one of the birds pinned to the ground. The hawk readjusted it's grip and took it's lunch home. I went in the house and told Sharon how nice it was for her to set up an avian buffet for the hawks.That's an old Tim Allen bit:
"I built a combination bird-feeder/cat-feeder: it's just a regular bird-feeder...on a six-inch post."

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Not an old Tim Allen bit Lee....The feeders are 5' in the air. I control the cats.....I can trip my sprinkler system from inside my house. I tell all my neighbors...I wouldn't harm your cat for hunting in my backyard but I will send it home wet.

[John Miliunas]

That's an old Tim Allen bit:
"I built a combination bird-feeder/cat-feeder: it's just a regular bird-feeder...on a six-inch post."

OMG!! I'll NOT let the LOML read THAT one! :D :cool:

[Al Willits]

If all else fails.....
John if you can't find a shotgun anywhere, I'll check with Alhmans in Fairbault for a used one, I need to get to Dave's in Rochester some day and maybe we could meet there, make a creeker visit out of it?

Al....who has a "how do you turn a cat into a dog" joke, but thinks he'll save it as it involves flammables

[John Miliunas]

If all else fails.....
John if you can't find a shotgun anywhere, I'll check with Alhmans in Fairbault for a used one, I need to get to Dave's in Rochester some day and maybe we could meet there, make a creeker visit out of it?

Al....who has a "how do you turn a cat into a dog" joke, but thinks he'll save it as it involves flammables

Yes, please save the joke!! (Though I might not mind getting a PM on it!:D )

Thanks for the offer. Might even take you up on it! Not sure what the heck I'm exactly going to do right now. Just got off the phone with #1 daughter in Florida and we have a crisis on our hands, which of course, Dad has to try and straighten out. (Needless to say, when it involves "Dad", it also involves Dad's time and wallet!!!:rolleyes: )

In the meantime, I'll stay open to suggestions/recommendations! Thanks to all for your patience with this! Like I said before, I sure know how a "newbie" feels now! :o :) :cool:

[David G Baker]

Not an old Tim Allen bit Lee....The feeders are 5' in the air. I control the cats.....I can trip my sprinkler system from inside my house. I tell all my neighbors...I wouldn't harm your cat for hunting in my backyard but I will send it home wet.
Ken,
We have ten bird feeders hanging about 7 feet in the air and a couple ground feeders for the Doves. At least 5 times a month I find feathers scattered all over the yard and at least once a month we actually see the same thing you described. It is a real shock to the nervous system if you are close to it. The Hawks come out of nowhere and wham they are gone along with a bird. Doves are the prime victims and Blue Jays are next. The LOML wanted to take the feeders down but I convinced her that the Hawks need to eat as well and they don't get too many birds at our place.
A Hawk landed on our deck railing once, what a majestic sight. They are so beautiful. We see a Bald Eagle once in a while near our place but haven't seen one actually overhead. We still have wild rabbits running around as well as a beautiful Red Fox that shows his face on occasion.
Living in a semi rural area is great.
David B

[David Epperson]

Dick, NOW you're talkin' the kind of thing which fits up my alley! A c-note for the machine, plus a few shells and cleaning kit sounds like a probable deal. However, F&F may not be an option! I just checked at the Baraboo store last weekend. Outside of a LOT of ammo, air rifles and general hunting gear, they no longer carry actual firearms! Same thing with the Walfart stores around here. I wonder what gives? :confused: Anyhow, thanks for that recommendation! I'll do some checking. :) :cool:
For several ballistic reasons I'd stay away from the 410. While it is a good caliber, it's not really a good beginners gun (though several thousand people have started with one). And unless you plan on moving up to a better gun someday, I'd start with what you really need. The smallest I'd advise starting with would be a 20 guage, and you might as well go with a 12. Cost is not going to vary that much between them. And 12 guage ammo can be found in several places that 410 wouldn't be.

As for the places that no longer carry firearms.....Don't get me started on that rant. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms has been shreadded and too many people sat back with the "it doen't concern me" attitude and let it happen. As such the market for firearms at these places dwindled and the political and insurance costs of keeping a firearm inventory rose. What happened was inevitable. The DC Curcuit Court decision yesterday might help turn some of that tide...That and having Ted Nugent tutor Jim Zumbo into activism...But those are completly other off topic discussions.

Rant mode off.:D

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

John, I'll take my 20,000th post at SMC to be a "friend of the birds" and mention that you should check on whether you can legally shoot the crows. They are not game birds, or invasive non-native species and I believe that native species may be protected. Can't have them as pets, either...sadly as they are very intelligent animals. Crows have been show to be tool users, too...something that only recently was recognized in primates.

Maybe you can find a way to scare them off without killing them?

Some years ago a friend an avid hunter told me about a treaty between the US and Mexico. that we were all up iun arms about the fact that Mexiso has no bag limits onf Canadian Geese and the hunters in Mexico were taking them like clay pidgeons.

The up shot was that the Mexicans dug their heels in and got an out of season on Crows in the USA.

This seemes a tad odd to me now looking back on it because the Presiident's treaty making powers can not py pass the bicameral system for passing laws that affect citizens in the USA.
But there just may be a federal out of season on crows. Ya might want to check your local Fish and Game.

After all - no matter what the Fed says it's going to be your Fish and Game authorities who will be knocking on your door (orbreaking it down) if you end up doing the wrong thing.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ken,
We have ten bird feeders hanging about 7 feet in the air and a couple ground feeders for the Doves. At least 5 times a month I find feathers scattered all over the yard and at least once a month we actually see the same thing you described. It is a real shock to the nervous system if you are close to it. The Hawks come out of nowhere and wham they are gone along with a bird. Doves are the prime victims and Blue Jays are next. The LOML wanted to take the feeders down but I convinced her that the Hawks need to eat as well and they don't get too many birds at our place.
A Hawk landed on our deck railing once, what a majestic sight. They are so beautiful. We see a Bald Eagle once in a while near our place but haven't seen one actually overhead. We still have wild rabbits running around as well as a beautiful Red Fox that shows his face on occasion.
Living in a semi rural area is great.
David B

David,

A couple of years ago while fishing on a lake in 12' boat using an electric trolling motor, a friend, his teen son and I observed an eagle swooping down and grabbing fish from the water. This eagle would fly down around the bend of the lake and disappear into the trees. Later when we were fishing around that bend we could see the eagles nest. We observed this eagle doing it numerous times so it obviously was feeding young ones. Yup....kinda neat. Lewiston, Idaho where I live had a population of 19,000 when we moved here in 1982 and currently has a population of approximately 31,000. In the 25 years we've lived here, we've had bull elk, white tail deer, mule deer, black bear, moose and mountain lions in town. The bear wandered through about 1/2 mile from our house. Of course, when we go to the mountains we see alot of game.

[John Miliunas]

For several ballistic reasons I'd stay away from the 410. While it is a good caliber, it's not really a good beginners gun (though several thousand people have started with one). And unless you plan on moving up to a better gun someday, I'd start with what you really need. The smallest I'd advise starting with would be a 20 guage, and you might as well go with a 12. Cost is not going to vary that much between them. And 12 guage ammo can be found in several places that 410 wouldn't be.

As for the places that no longer carry firearms.....Don't get me started on that rant. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms has been shreadded and too many people sat back with the "it doen't concern me" attitude and let it happen. As such the market for firearms at these places dwindled and the political and insurance costs of keeping a firearm inventory rose. What happened was inevitable. The DC Curcuit Court decision yesterday might help turn some of that tide...That and having Ted Nugent tutor Jim Zumbo into activism...But those are completly other off topic discussions.

Rant mode off.:D

Hey David, I'm really starting to lean toward a simple 12 ga. Probably just a single shot. My main purpose here is for crows and, as I said before, whatever I hit w/the first shot will probably be it for a while, as the rest will scatter quickly. :D

As for your "rant", good points, IMHO. As it happens, I had to run down to our local Walfart this aft for a couple incidentals. Just for the heckuvit, I stopped over to the hunting counter. I asked the old fella' there regarding the absence of any firearms. Told me Walmart "pulled out of it" completely!!! Now, he couldn't tell me if it was "total" Walmart (Country-wide) but, I have to believe it is in WI, as any other store I visited in the last couple weeks is void of firearms! He said they came in on the 14th, packed them all up and gave no explanation as to why. Go figure. :( He told me he knows a guy who works at "Cabela's" about 40 miles away, came in last month and bought 14 rifles/guns for his gun club, because he could get them cheaper there than at his cost at Cabela's!!! Again, go figure. :(

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go w/a used piece. No point in spending more than I have to for limited use. :) :cool:

[Jason Roehl]

John, I can't believe I'm this late to the party! How'd I miss this one? Anyway, I noticed some folks mentioned the .22 shotshells. Don't bother. Those are for point-blank range on rodents. I shot at a plastic 5-gallon bucket from about 20 yards or so, and the best they did was leave a 1/16" dent in the bucket. Oh, and I felt a couple of ricochets hit me.

Since you're leaning towards the 12-ga., I do recall coming across 12-ga "bird bombs" at one point. Rather than shooting at individual birds, they are intended to produce enough "shock and awe" to scare away a group of birds up to 100 yards away or so (it's been a few years since I saw these shells in an ad).

Ahh, yes. Here's a link, it's about 3/4 of the way down the page:

http://www.miragetechnologies.net/Mirage%20All%20Purpose%20Ammo.htm

[Don Bergren]

John, for your situation I'd go for a 12 gauge single shot too. It's been better than 28 years since I fired a gun, but it was a hobby in my previous life. I had a double barrel 12 gauge that was laid up with a broken stock (I stupidly loaned it to a relative), and needed a temporary solution. A close family friend, who was also my shooting mentor, loaned me his old H&R single shot 12 gauge. I really liked it even though it was only one round at a time, and I had a real blast shooting with clay pigeons with that gun. It would be a great crow killer.

[John Miliunas]

John, I can't believe I'm this late to the party! How'd I miss this one? Anyway, I noticed some folks mentioned the .22 shotshells. Don't bother. Those are for point-blank range on rodents. I shot at a plastic 5-gallon bucket from about 20 yards or so, and the best they did was leave a 1/16" dent in the bucket. Oh, and I felt a couple of ricochets hit me.

Since you're leaning towards the 12-ga., I do recall coming across 12-ga "bird bombs" at one point. Rather than shooting at individual birds, they are intended to produce enough "shock and awe" to scare away a group of birds up to 100 yards away or so (it's been a few years since I saw these shells in an ad).

Ahh, yes. Here's a link, it's about 3/4 of the way down the page:

http://www.miragetechnologies.net/Mirage%20All%20Purpose%20Ammo.htm

Egads, never heard of those before! But, Moma would be upset with me if'n I scared the rest of the birds off with something like that! :o Besides, if I get a 12ga and I'm out there aiming anyway, might as well do it the right way! :D :cool:

[Jack Dickey]

Elmer ?? he he

I had a laydown framed blown harley for a couple years , very expensive hobby .. even run aginst him a couple times , dang how long now ?? 95-96 or so ??

Crows ?? Huh what I got the 458 Lott for

[David G Baker]

Ken,
I have always wanted to see an Eagle in action. That had to be one wonderful site.
The varmints that set off my driveway alarm every night have four legs and antlers during certain times of the year. We have five that visit every night. The are digging through the snow looking for apples and eating the bird seed that has fallen under the feeders.
I spent too much time in California and have lost the hunting with a weapon urge that I had as a kid growing up in Michigan, I make up for it by trapping problematic critters.
David B

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello John,
It's hard to beat a Remington 870 for an all purpose shotgun unless you're left handed - although the 870 comes in lefty also.
Since I shoot left handed - even though I'm right handed - I prefer the bottom eject of the Browning BPS.

The Mossberg 500 is another pump gun that has a loyal following, as does the Winchester 1300.

Honestly though, the Rem 870 is the "standard" by which all the others are judged.

Personally, I shy away from the .410 for the reasons already stated, as well as the fact that ammunition cost is fairly high.
12 ga and 20 ga ammunition is fairly inexpensive and as close as your nearest Wal Mart for availibility.
(I used high brass #5 12 ga back when I hunted crows.)

Ammo cost is something you need to consider. Don't fool yourself into thinking a shotgun is "point and shoot". To hit a crow at 40 to 60 yards you're going to burn through a fair amount of practice ammo.

Single shots are also something you might want to shy away from. Their lightweight makes them kick like a mule - as well as their "one size fits all" comb. I'm fairly good sized - 6" 240 lbs and single shots pound me to death. Recoil from either my 12 ga 870 or my 20 ga BPS is no problem.

Again, practice sessions should be enjoyable, not a test of your ability to withstand discomfort.

Crows that peform are all well and cute, but they are known for severe depradation of their surroundings. I believe you can apply for an expemption from the game laws that will allow you to take them out of season. You need to show proof of either depredation happening or depradation about to happen.

As far a hunting technique - to eliminate a crow infestation - shoot one of the birds on the ground feeding. Never shoot the sentry - the flock -or "murder" as a flock of crows is called - always posts a sentry bird to watch over them while they feed. If you shoot or harm one of the feeders, the rest of the murder will kill the sentry(s).

If the murder doesn't land in your area to feed, then you're on one of their flyways. If that's the case, then simply shooting one once twice or three times will make them avoid the area.

Good luck with your crow problem.

LOL! Our Wildlife infestation was a family of skunks that moved in under the house...trade ya :D

[Keith Outten]

Ken,

I used to watch Eagles fishing at Lake Anna in central Virginia in the late 70's. Just before sundown they would start diving from high above the lake, it is an incredible sight to see. I was always amazed at the size of the fish they could catch and still fly, eagles are very powerful birds. Periodically we have a few falcons and hawks that hunt in our field behind my workshop. Needless to say there aren't many mice, rats or other small critters in the open very long. Now if they would just get the last ground hog that lives here and save me the trouble, four down and one to go.

.

[John Miliunas]

Ammo cost is something you need to consider. Don't fool yourself into thinking a shotgun is "point and shoot". To hit a crow at 40 to 60 yards you're going to burn through a fair amount of practice ammo.

Single shots are also something you might want to shy away from. Their lightweight makes them kick like a mule - as well as their "one size fits all" comb. I'm fairly good sized - 6" 240 lbs and single shots pound me to death. Recoil from either my 12 ga 870 or my 20 ga BPS is no problem.

Again, practice sessions should be enjoyable, not a test of your ability to withstand discomfort.



Great input, Rich. I've heard quite a bit about the recoil "discomfort" and that does concern me a bit, as I've had a bit of a shoulder problem lately to begin with. However, two thought come to mind: 1) What about the great popularity of double-barrel guns? Wouldn't the recoil issue apply to them, as well? LOTS of folks shoot them. Or, would the added weight of the gun absorb that much more recoil? 2) The only other real pest issue we have around here besides the crows are moles. Hence, the gun would be pretty much single-purpose. Pumpers are expensive if there is to be but one single target for them. If I were to hunt "normal" game stock, then yes, I'd say it's worth it. Hard to justify to myself OR the LOML an 870. (Sure wish I'd have gotten MY 870 back before my Grandfather passed on!) Even checking the "used" counters around here at shops, they sure do know what to charge for them! :(

Agreed on the ammo. Hence, I've pretty much discounted the .410. Well, that and the fact that I don't have the time to practice a LOT for accuracy. I think a box of 12 or 20 ga for practice should get me pretty close to where I want to be. :)

Thanks much for the input. My best buddy is checking w/his Dad & brother to see what, if anything, they may have in the lines of "extra" 12's which they may be willing to part with. I doubt a pumper will be in the lineup but, you never know! :) :cool:

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hi John,
Re: double barrels and over/unders & alternatives.

- A SxS can be cheap - the Russian Biekel(sp?) and the Stoeger both are in the sub-$300 range. A well used Stevens or possibly even a Fox can be had for a decent price.
If you go a SxS, you might want to take a close look at one of the "Coach Guns". - the 20" barrel model. Cowboy Action Shooting is a growing popular sport. You can usually pick up a used Rossi, Stoeger or (cut down) Stevens for $250 - $350, then turn around later and resell it for pretty much what you paid for it.

- Cheaper SxS's and single shots often suffer from having an incorrect comb. The comb determines the fit of the shotgun to the shoulder. Even a "Featherweight" with a proper comb/fit is pleasant to shoot. A 20 ga with poor fit/improper comb can be pure punishment.

- You're going to need a 3 dram equivilent load to "reach out and touch" those blackbirds @ 40 plus yards. Using light target loads will usually result in a cripple. Trust me here,,,nothing is a worse feeling than losing a cripple. I'm far from a bleeding heart type (I believe most people tell me I', a bit to the right of Atilla the Hun :D),,but,,...
Those 3 dram loads pack a whallop on both ends.

- The used rack is often a good place to look for "branded name" guns. Sears and Monkey Ward both had Remington and Winchester private label for them. ( I picked up a wonderful Ted Williams brand (Sears) Winchester 94 in .30/30 for about half of what the Winchester name runs, years ago. Good serviceable pump guns in one of these branded names can become both a working tool and also a real fun restore project.

- 20 ga is probably better than 12 ga. - Why? Shooting is fun. You might find that your wife may want to try her hand at busting some clays. A 20 ga. pump is pretty manageble with target loads for even a 10 year old.
My wife had a mild interest in shooting when we first met ~ 28 years ago.
Last count she had a couple of pistols and her own Winchester.

As an aside - a decent gun is like a decent power tool. You usually get what you pay for;misuse either and somebody gets hurt;quality is remembered long after price is forgotten.

Follow the 4 basic rules:
- Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire.
- Know your backstop.
- Treat every gun as if it's loaded.
- Never point the muzzle at anything you're not willing to destroy.


Well, that and the fact that I don't have the time to practice a LOT for accuracy. I think a box of 12 or 20 ga for practice should get me pretty close to where I want to be.
Please - keep in mind what I said above about a cripple. Also keep in mind that it's fun - quite addiciting too. ;)

Someone mentioned www. thehighroad.org (http://www. thehighroad.org). (remove the space after the www.) I second that. Dave McCracken - the shotgun forum moderator - is to shotguns, what Pat Warner is to routers.
Dave has also written some excellent posts about proper fit and how important is is.,,well,,,pretty much anything Dave writes is top shelf information.

Edit to add:

The 870 comes in two differnet configurations - the basic model ~ $300 and the "Wingmaster" ~ $800 or more.
Same gun only the Wingmaster has a deep blue finish and traditional walnut stock/forearm.

[Jason Roehl]

Hmmm...I find that a 12-gauge with 2-3/4" non-magnum shells in 7-1/2 or even 6 shot don't have a whole lot of recoil, particularly not with the 28" vent-rib and full modified(I think...don't recall) choke on my 870 Express Magnum. Now, slap in some 3" magnum deer slugs...:eek: Ten years ago I paid $300 new for that with the extra slug barrel (smoothbore). Gunbroker.com is definitely a good place to check.

John, if you go the used route, a semi-auto 12er might be worth a look--the semi-auto action mitigates the recoil somewhat. But it would still be more than a 20-gauge.

[Kyle Kraft]

check out crowbusters.com.....pretty cool site w/ lots of good info.

[Joe Melton]

Why not use a pellet gun? Europeans regularly hunt birds with them. One advantage is they won't scare (or alert!) the neighbors. Another is that the projectile doesn't carry as far as a .22, so you don't have to worry about what is beyond the horizon.
As an interesting aside, Navy SEALS are using pellet guns in Iraq to take on snipers. The reason is they don't reveal their position when fired. Your budget will not allow you one of those models, though.
If crows are so smart, seeing just one of their brethren croaking on the ground may get the word out.
Joe

[Kyle Kraft]

Here's a good one Joe, according to Crowbusters, you can use your dead crows to augment your decoy spread....they must not be that smart.

[Don Henthorn Smithville, TX]

I agree a 10-22 Ruger with a reasonable scope is a good gun for the longer distances. For shorter ranges a good 410 shotgun would be a better choice particular for the neighboring farms. A 22 slug can be dangerous up to a mile while the shot from a shotgun won't have much potential for danger when fired up in the air. Just an old timer who remembers when every kid around had a 22 by the time he and sometimes she was 12 and often put meat on the table a couple times or more per week. Different world and a hell of a lot more fun to live in.

[Al Willits]

So John, confused enough already???

We'll all waiting to see what ya do....:D

btw I have to put in for vacation, what week is the gathering gonna be and can I bring a few friends?....:D

Al....who thinks a Creeker gathering/crow shoot would probably be a first.