First Plane....be gentle please....

[Al Willits]

OK, spent a bit wandering the search section and am more confused now than when I started my quest to buy a plane.
I need a basic plane to do minor stuff with, not sure what, but I figure if I have a plane I'll use it on something.
Least people tell me I will....:)
Seems a smaller general purpose plane might be in order, maybe a block plane of some sort, the apron size (5-6") looks like a nice one to start with.
Problem is, there's to many different types block planes, I'm thinking of using it for minor trimming, maybe rounding edges, and whatever else these things do.

Looks like a decent one can be had for under a $100 and that helps too.

Any suggestions?

[Barry Beech]

Seems like the LN #102 is a favorite. I have one and love it.

[Al Willits]

I was looking at that or the Veritas apron block plane.
I should look at the Low angle version then??
That was where I was having some confusion.
Thanks

Not sure where I'd need different angles or if I'd need two planes ??
Higher angles for end grain cuts maybe??
Maybe one plane two angle options?? :)
Al

edit...Just wondering, I see Lee Valley has a Stanley small block plane for $40, I understand this isn't "THE" plane to get, but for the hobbist like me, how well would it work??

[Brian Kent]

The LN 102 Low Angle Block plane is a real gem. Here is one for $75 delivered, with tax and license:

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/A!221.htm

With that available, I wouldn't touch a new Stanley at $40.

The low angle is great for end grain. High angle for highly figured wood.


My high angle favorite is the Mujingfang high angle rosewood polishing plane, (3 sizes, all about $50 from Japanwoodworker), which got a very high review here:
http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/haspc.shtml

[Jason King]

is the one you buy twice.

I owned the small stanley block plane. To be fair, it served its purpose, for a while. I was able to make curly shavings and it helped me fit joints together. That being said, I just purchased a lie nielsen block plane to replace it. Everything the stanley could do, the lie nielsen could do better. The stanley wouldn't hold it's adjustment well, which would lead to all sorts of tinkering to try and keep the plane performing. the LN just works. I am just a hobbiest as well, but if you plan on using a handplane, make it a good one, the cheap ones will just frustrate you.

You may not need to buy an expensive plane if you don't mind fettling an older well made stanley. The new stanleys leave a lot to be desired unfortunately.

If you needed just one block plane, I'd chose the 9 1/2 standard angle, but that just my 2 cents. good luck

[George Tokarev]

Me for a low-angle block as more versatile. The LV or LN are certainly fine, and I'll get one someday when the Stanley 60 1/2 fails to do everything I ask him to. Bought my big kid the LV, and it's every bit as good as my LV jack. Number two is a smoother. LV my choice as a big-handed individual. More room.

[Jesse Thornton]

If I had to give up all but one of my hand planes (God forbid), I'd probably keep my LV LA block plane. I started with the same stanley block plane that you mentioned, and the difference in quality between it and the veritas plane far outweighed the difference in price. It's a joy to use.
The apron plane would be a great choice if you plan to do a lot of on-site trim work - I think that's primarily what it was designed for. Otherwise, I think you'll find the standard size much more versatile for shop work, and ergonomically much more comfortable to wield.

[Al Willits]

Thanks all, kinda figured from previous threads, and what was said here that the Stanley wasn't gonna make it...had to ask though.:)

Looks almost like two are gonna be required, a small apon size and the standard one.
Sounds like a good basic set to start with.

Considering I wouldn't know a good old Stanley from a new not so good one, I'll go with the new ones, once again thanks for the help.

Al....who thinks two of these things is only the start....:)

[Al Willits]

I think I opened a can of worms here...:)

Just got done with a short seminar from one of the local gurus on hand planes (thanks to the Minn Woodworkers Guild btw).
He recommends trying to find a Old Stanley and mentioned the "Sweetheart" model.
He says with a bit of TLC one of these can be made into a very nice plane.
Also one should be able to be found for around $50 to $65 in decent shape.
Left me with the impression a number 4 would be a nice plane to start with.

Did a search here and found a nice post on buying a plane on Ebay, not my favorite way of doing things, but he mentioned to stay away from the Sweetheart model because they were to expensive??????

Considering my last look a Lee Valley or Lee Nielson left me short of a heart attack, $50 or $60 bucks plus a few hours of reconditioning seems like a good price to pay.

What am I missing here?
Other than the plane...:)

Also it seems a #4, #7 and a smaller block plane may be a good basic set.
Thinking the #4 and block plane be the first two I'd get.

Al.....these run on 110 or 220 btw? :D

[Tyler Howell]

I've taken 2 classes from Tom on the subject. Come on over and I'll show you what I learned.:D

[Jim Becker]

From my perspective, starting with a decent quality block plane works...in my case as a largely "tailed" woodworker (both in tools and hair... :D), it gets use in every project and was a good starting point to learn not just use, but also care and feeding. (Mine is a LN low-angle adjustable mouth block plane) I know some others feel a larger plane like a low-angle jack is a good starting point, but for me, it wouldn't have kick started my hand tool use nearly as quickly as the block did.

The Veritas offerings are very nice tools and reasonably priced. And for a first plane, buying something makes more sense since you get more immediate use and can learn on something that "works" before you try your hand at restoring a tool that is unfamiliar. Purely my own opinion, however...and I have a bias that I have zero time for reconditioning older tools when my shop time in general is so limited by life in general.

[Al Willits]

Tyler, I was thinking of you, just figured I'd mention it next time we go for burgers :)
Let me know when ya have some free time, I remember you showing them to Rick and I, but I haven't got to that stage of woodworking yet..

Jim thanks, good points and the block plane looks like it'd get lots of use with what I'm doing now especially once I figure how to use them.
I have a fair amount of time to play, so reconditioning one is something I'd like to do, might actually help on using if I understood the internals.

I will probably lean towards getting the Verita's block plane first, your right, it would be nice to wail away with out having to spend time fixing it.
Maybe a little old and a little new....:)

Thanks
Al

[David Mendoza]

Here's 2 cents,

I bought a cheap-o to (paid $10 for a miller falls #16) learn on. Took it apart, cleaned it with a brillo pad and WD40 followed by a windex bath then towel dried it, put back together. Tried it on an old peice of oak, poor oak was hack up, so I then did my homework and googled "how to tune a hand plane" so much info out there. So I sharpen the blade (sandpaper method) best i could, tried it again....OMG....Got me a few curls. Then I got serious and rehabbed it completely (with help from google), bought some finer grit sandpaper. Now it whoossshes curls.


Moral: Learn the how tos first because sooner or later your gonna need to tune even the best of 'em.

[Mike Cutler]

Al.

I have a number of flea market specials. All of them work and do the job that is expected of them. All had to be rehabbed, and overhauled. Parts replaced, etc...
That said. none of them are as nice as the LN's I've purchased over the past few months.
I have the LN 102, and 103 and love 'em, but the 60 1/2 is probably a better investment over the long haul (I have one of those also).
I have a # 4 1/2 from LN in addition to the block planes. Very nice plane.

A block plane is probably the most functional in the beginning. I'd say an LN 60 1/2, or the comparable LV model is a good first choice.

[Al Willits]

I understand that buying upper end planes is the way to go, but I'm not quite ready to spend #350+ on something I haven't a clue on using or how much I will use.
I don't see myself (at this time) planing large amounts of wood with a hand plane, so I'd like to work in to this gradually if I could.
Spending under a $100 for a #4 plane that works well is doable, a new LN at this time gets me the "LOOK" from Beasty, as she's still waiting for the kitchen cabinets I told her I would make with the 15" planer and 8" jointer I bought...:)

I'm still thinking a new small block plane and a used #4 is the way to go.

Al...they don't ever forget...do they? :D

[Ken Werner]

Hi Al,
Brian, post #4 gave you an excellent recommendation. The LN 102 for $75 shipped is a great tool at a great price. For me, the idea of fine tuning an older plane is a great ideal, but first you need to learn what the goal in hand really feels like. Buying a LN [or LV] will give you that sense. Once you recognize it, you can aim for that in an older stanley #4. I would urge you NOT to spend $50 on an older Stanley block when you can spend $75 on an excellent tool that'll work for you with just a little honing.
Like sharp, first you have to learn what it is before you can bring an edge to it. My thinking anyway, FWIW.
Good luck, and post yer gloat.
Ken

[Richard Niemiec]

Al: It all depends on what you perceive to be the value of your time. If your objective is to spend your time making something, and not taking apart, tuning, etc ("fettling") an old plane, then buy a LV or LN as both have fine products right out of the box. If you don't mind hunting down a pre-war Stanley (or even the wartime production, which I have found to be quite servicable) and taking it apart, cleaning it up, learning how to use it and keep it sharp, well that's more economical in terms of cash out the door, as a few evenings in the shop fettling a plane is not all that much of an investment in time to me.

New Stanley production requires a lot more fettling than the older USA made block planes, say pre-1960 (in my view, the sought after "Sweetheart" period, in terms of block planes, never really held any water as an argument in my book, as I have some block planes from the 20's and 30's and they pretty much perform the same as those made up through the '60s.

As far as price, again it depends on how you value your time. I enjoy fleas and garage sales, and rarely pay more than $15 or $20 (oftentimes less) for block, or for that matter, bench planes; all generally type 19 or earlier for bench planes. Put a few hours of clean up into one and it will "retail" for $40 or so. As far as block planes, there are plenty of Stanley 9 1/2s out there in pretty good shape, and if you're into low angle, 60 1/2s are a bit harder to find in the fleas, but can be had from online sources. I actually have a 60 1/2 made in the UK about 7 years ago I got as a gift, and with some attention to it it works very well and i use it often. A used 9 1/2 will let you get your feet wet and not really spend so much, and its a really good tool to boot when you get it up and running. My two cents.

RN

[James Owen]

I think I opened a can of worms here...:)

Just got done with a short seminar from one of the local gurus on hand planes (thanks to the Minn Woodworkers Guild btw).
He recommends trying to find a Old Stanley and mentioned the "Sweetheart" model.
He says with a bit of TLC one of these can be made into a very nice plane.
Also one should be able to be found for around $50 to $65 in decent shape.
Left me with the impression a number 4 would be a nice plane to start with.

Did a search here and found a nice post on buying a plane on Ebay, not my favorite way of doing things, but he mentioned to stay away from the Sweetheart model because they were to expensive??????

Considering my last look a Lee Valley or Lee Nielson left me short of a heart attack, $50 or $60 bucks plus a few hours of reconditioning seems like a good price to pay.

What am I missing here?
Other than the plane...:)

Also it seems a #4, #7 and a smaller block plane may be a good basic set.
Thinking the #4 and block plane be the first two I'd get....
:D

No reason to stay away from the Sweetheart versions of Stanley's planes; they sometimes are a little bit more expensive than some of the earlier or later models, but usually not outrageously so (that "honour" is more or less reserved for the Bedrocks....IMO if you're going to pay Bedrock prices, you might as well just go for the LN and get a better plane). The Sweethearts are excellent planes; many hand plane users consider them to be the best non-Bedrock planes that Stanley ever produced.

[Andrew Williams]

I second that... Buying a plane that will work great out of the box for your first plane is a good thing to do. It shows you in no uncertain terms just what can be done with a hand plane. Makes a better yardstick to measure a hand-fettled old plane by.

[Howie French]

I started with a new LV LA block plane, worked great out of the box. Now I knew what to expect from a plane. I then picked up an ebay $35 stanley #4 type 13. I tuned it based on information from this site and others. It works very well, I am quessing not quite as well as a new LN, but for 35$ thats ok.
I am sure I can improve it's performance even more, with more tinkering.

I think this is a good way to start.

Howie

[Al Willits]

Ken, I probably wasn't clear enough, I will buy a new smaller block plane, but a #4 LN plane costs about $300 and that's the size I am thinking of buying used.
Veritas has a little Apron plane for $90 that looks like a good starter plane, but I'm still searching.

Thanks

Al

[Mark Stutz]

Run, don't walk, away from this insanity!:D ;) :eek: You will not be able to stop with just one or two! The slope is more slippery than you think...and It seems as if even Jim Becker is starting to slip!;) Seriously, you can't go wrong with a block plane or two, new LN or LV, or old Stanley. It helps to have, or have access to, one that is sharp and fettled, so you know what to shoot for. It has been mentioned in passing, but you will need a method to sharpen and keep it sharp...even a LN is useless with a dull blade. If yo already have a system for chisels etc, you're good to go. Let us know what you end up with.

Mark

[Al Willits]

Mark I was told that about woodworking and didn't listen, I'm doomed and just along for the ride...:D

Fettled? ... more of that learning curve I think.

The only chisels I have came from Sears about 20 years ago, one even has a metal end so when I use the ball pein hammer on it to remove nails it doesn't split the plastic handle....hehe.
So, for sharpening I've been using sandpaper and a piece of glass, granite, cement floor or the 6" bench grinder to keep them razor...er....kinda sharp...

Am looking at the Veritas MK2 honing guide for sharpening ????

Al...never ends does it?

[Terry Bigelow]

Looks like you've gotten quite a bit of good adice here but let me add mine:don't be scared of the old Stanley's! Sometimes I think the amount of work and price (including replacement parts i.e. blade,chipbreaker) gets exaggerated by the people who swear by thier shiny new LN's and LV's. While there is no question a difference in the "out of the box" quality between an old Stanley and LN/LV, it's not all that difficult or expensive to tune up an old classic. Don't forget those beautiful LN's are patterned after Stanley Bedrocks! Seriously though, a good Stanley(say a no.4) can be had for $30-65 and if you really want to step it up a notch add a Hock iron and chipbreaker (both thicker than the original Stanleys)for about $70. Now you're talking about a real hot rod! Still less than half of a new LN plus there's a certain amount of joy that comes from tuning up an old plane. When I get an old Stanley it takes about two hours (give or take an hour depending on the condition) to get it right. Not that bad to me.

[Al Willits]

Thanks Terry, I to enjoy making old stuff work and get a lot of satisfaction making something that's beat up work nicely.
I just looked at the notes I took from the class and he mentioned a thicker blade, thinking I'll come back here when I have the Stanley and get more help on reconditioning.
You all have been a great help, and I thank ya.

Al...who's sending this from the poor house...:)

[Andrew Williams]

I just hot-rodded a no-marking Stanley 3 and it takes such a fine shaving that I can plane hard maple with one hand with it. Hock makes some nice steel :)

[Wilbur Pan]

Al,

I'm using Japanese planes for the most part, but my experience may help you out. Japanese planes are usually bedded at 40 or 45, and sometimes 48 degrees. Conventional wisdom holds that 40 degrees (the "low angle") should be used on soft woods, 45 degrees on hard woods, and 48 degrees on ridiculously figured woods.

So I bought a used Japanese plane on eBay, tuned it up, and used it. I had a point of reference because my neighbor has some Lie-Nielsen planes, and I had seen what a good plane can do. I was happily planing cherry, oak, and beech without problems.

Then one fateful day, I decided to see what the angle on my Japanese plane was. [You can probably guess where this is going.] My protractor said that I was using a 40 degree plane -- supposedly the wrong angle for the wood I was using. But it didn't matter as long as I could make thin curly shavings.

My point is that it probably doesn't matter what plane you get for a first plane as long as [1] you'll use it frequently, and [2] you have some sort of reference as to what a good plane can do. If you have a friend or a local woodworking club where someone knows how to properly set up a plane, or have access to a lesson on using hand planes, then go get a used plane and tune it up. If you are on your own locally, then get a Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley block plane, mainly because that will be set up to run well out of the box. Low angle or standard angle doesn't matter. Use it until you run into wood that you can't plane well with it. Then get a second plane.

[Frank Bessette]

Greetings,

I started out my good planes with an LN 102 (apron plane) and LN 62 LA Jack. The LA Jack may be a good place to start. Only collectors have Stanley 62 plans (may be a slight over statement).

There is this circular fact of life. You can't really get a plane blade truly sharp until you use one that is truly sharp. You won't know it is really sharp until you can make on truely sharp. And around and around we go. So jump in and do your best you will get better.

The reason I suggest an LN plane to start is that you will know when things are getting better or not as you learn to use the plane. It will be your skill at sharpening and your planing technique that works or not. The plane will work. Now I know that when I played with other planes sometimes it was me and sometimes it was the plane.

I have many planes. My favorite is my LN #4 with their old style balde and old style chipbreaker.

If price is critical, I have heard, you can usually find then about 10% off list and free shipping. If you pay $65 for the plane and $75 for the blade you are at $140. THe choice is easy for me.

If you don't have the money or really like to fettle things that might make the choice easy as well.

If I were starting today knowing what I know I would start with an LN 60 1/2 or 102 and a #4 or #5 bench plane. that would be followed up by the other (#4 or #5) and a #8. The LN LA Jack the LN LA Smother and LN 4 1/2 would be the others to follow up with.:D

By then you are so far down the slope you are in a never ending blissful slide.

Dont forget other block planes and special purpose planes. then there are chisels and saws. So Many tools So little money.:)

Best...

Frank

[Al Mock MD]

I second that... Buying a plane that will work great out of the box for your first plane is a good thing to do. It shows you in no uncertain terms just what can be done with a hand plane. Makes a better yardstick to measure a hand-fettled old plane by.

After seeing a friend push a massive, gleaming Norris infill across a slab of curly maple, my knees buckled & I rushed out to buy a plane. The problem was...I bought a cheap, late-model #3 with stamped-everything. It rattled, wobbled & my first few passes were with the bevel up! Now 50 planes later, I'm lucky I survived it. There's something to be said for seeing/feeling what's possible right up front. However, you'll have very little chance of escaping a full-blown plane addiction if your first pass is with a tuned LN! Love the mill, al