Widebelt sander question

[Peter Russell]

Hi Guys,
I am considering buying a widebelt sander to finish macrocarpa boards that have been thicknessed and glued up.
In New Zealand the choices of such gear is pretty limited.
This generic asian model looks ok.
http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mm3401to5.jpg

I wonder if anyone here has experience with this machine or similar?
thanks a lot

Peter Russell
(the registration process won't allow my real name and no one answered my pleas for help so thought I'd try Bruce :)

[Peter Russell]

Just updated the link to a better pic,
anyone know of these machines ?...
Spose you americans are well enough served by local manufacturers to bother importing Asian stuff ?

Pete

[Rick Lizek]

The unit pictured would not be called a widebelt sander, it's a drum sander. There are plenty who buy Asian tools here as the US machines usn't always the best or affordable. The European stuff is better for the most part. A widebelt uses actual belts instead of roll paper like a drum sander. Also the better widebelt needs a bigger motor, 20 hp is common on a 36" machine and the ones for finish sanding have a platen between the bottom rolls which means you can go right into finishing from the sander. Drum sanders leave drum ripples which must be cleaned uo with additional sanding from a random orbit sander.

The machine you pictured would be comparable to the Grizzly (imported), WoodMaster, etc.

[Peter Russell]

Thanks for the clarification Rick, :)
mmm drum ripple marks don't sound good...
I have paid a large workshop to sand panels in the past with a large version of one of these things and the finish was brilliant, very little further finishing required.
The one in the picture is a twin drum.
It comes with single phase 3hp (240V here so more grunt)
realise that is tiny power but I'm happy to do very light passes.

One of the reasons for getting one of these is to get my long suffering wrists a rest from the 4 inch Makita :)

cheers
Pete

[Rick Lizek]

You will still need to hand sand. Now a stroke sander will give the finish you seek and will not require additional sanding. They do take up a bit more space but the hp requirements are much smaller than a drum sander. Very low tech and can be built from odds and ends. Often selling for really cheap as most folks don't even know about them and many think it's outdated technology but those who know better think otherwise. I've even put one in a custom metal shop as they thought there was no way to duplicte their handrubbed, meaning hours and hours of handwork.
This is but one example of a SS...
http://www.grizzly.com/products/g5394
I would recommend a stroke sander over a drum sander for the small shop anyday. I've worked on all kinds of sanders in factories and small shops for over 25 years.

[Peter Russell]

Funnily enough I have one of those :)
Its a homemade job inhierated from an old chap.. I have only used the ends for curved sanding.
It had a sliding table and hand held 'platen' (block of wood with carpet on it :D...seemed to make a pretty nasty job. So I was surprised to see the linked one has a rising table and platen on rails...I have never seen such an equiped one here.
Might be an idea to make one from scratch. Not hard to pick up the wheels and frame here.
Thanks a lot for the info :)
cheers
Pete

[Peter Russell]

Well blow me down, there is one available here !
Just asking them what the damage is :)

[Paul B. Cresti]

You will still need to hand sand. Now a stroke sander will give the finish you seek and will not require additional sanding. They do take up a bit more space but the hp requirements are much smaller than a drum sander. Very low tech and can be built from odds and ends. Often selling for really cheap as most folks don't even know about them and many think it's outdated technology but those who know better think otherwise. I've even put one in a custom metal shop as they thought there was no way to duplicte their handrubbed, meaning hours and hours of handwork.
This is but one example of a SS...
http://www.grizzly.com/products/g5394
I would recommend a stroke sander over a drum sander for the small shop anyday. I've worked on all kinds of sanders in factories and small shops for over 25 years.

Rick,
Now I can guess how they work by the pictures I have seen but I have never seen one in action in person. They come up for sale on the used market quite regularly...only problem is they are quite long machines at around 8ft. Could you please run through how they are used and the types for my education? They seem to be more of a finishing machine than a dimensioning machine like a widebelt sander. I have also heard that a lot of the machine depends on the skill the operator has in using it...would you say this is correct?

[Rick Lizek]

Yes it would be considered a finishing machine and skill is certainly a major part of it. Doing a careful glue up would be a major factor to take advantage of a stroke sander. Basically it's a large belt sander but can give very fine results with even thinly veneered plywood. On many occasions we had bad finish problems with veneered plywood and were able to resand up to three times and still managed to save the panel with the stroke sander before sanding through the thin veneer. As far as types you would have the platen type which was pictured in the grizzly ad or you can use a hand block which gives you more control. They also made through automatic through feed units and they also make some programmable through feed units that are built into widebelts for cross grain sanding. A book could be written on the virtues of a stroke sander and all it's applications for the wood and metal industry. True they are a bit bigger than a drum or widebelt but the fact that you can go right to finishing is a big plus over a drum sander. I can't do the proper justice of a stroke sander in a small space like this, but from practical experience I have a difficult time to to justify a drum sander in a one man shop over a stroke sander besides the space issues. One can also sand profiles with a j weight belt and shaped graphite cover blocks. You can even get graphite covered sanding mitts for specialty sanding applications from Process Engineeing. Now thats real hand sanding with a machine.

[Peter Russell]

looks like the machine here can only take boards 1500mm long...
I'm planning on making coffins so need to work up to 2 metres.
Need to stick to single phase so a bit of a conundrum.
research continues :)
Pete

[Rick Lizek]

There are models where the pedestals are independent of the table mechanism and can be mounted any distance apart. I installed a Mattison with just such a configuration in the custom metal shop I was in a fewe years ago and it worked out perfectly. With it's open design I could even sand long 6" wide pieces beyond the pedestal spacing. You use it like a belt sander, moving the table side to side as you work the handblock or fulcrum pad front to back. We could also sand completed furniture tops in place by moving the work table out of the way and blocking the table or chest or whatever to the proper height. Custom belts are relatively easy to come by and inexpensive as well as very fast to change grits. Withj care and practice you can do some surface thicknessing but doing a proper glue is the preferred way to deal with such things. There is a stroke sander that will do the capacity you want and wouldn't be difficult to modify one to seperate the pedestals or even build one from scratch.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29715
See post # 15 for an example of a home made unit.

[Peter Russell]

Opps slow getting back !
Thanks for that info Rick,
This is timely as I am back on the sander hunt.
Either I contract out this work or buy the gear :)
cheers
Pete