Things I shouldn't do as a new laser owner

[Scott Shepherd]

I love our new laser and I'm having a blast with it, but I'm also frightened to death that my imagination and ignorance of the entire field is going to catch up with me one day, so I thought I'd ask for a little advice from all the veteran users.

One thing I was close to doing is cutting out vinyl. Good thing I read the "NO PVC" comment in the users manual.

I also thought "Cedar would probably be cool to burn", only to figure out 1/2 way through that it's full of sap and makes for a mess, and probably not a good idea to do a lot of cedar. So, I wondered what other woods are nasty to work with.

Can we get a list of things you should NOT do, and possibly some things that you might want to avoid to help all the new owners like me? If might already be here. If so, I missed it.

So I'll start with my tips :

DON'T

1) Laser Vinyl (unless it's made for laser). If it has anything to do with PVC, it'll create a nasty gas when burned that will destroy the components of your laser (from what I read).


You might not want to

1) Burn cedar on a regular basis as it contains a ton of sap and releases a lot of resin. Burns fine, just is way more messy than other woods like Alder, birch, oak.


I don't have much to offer at this point, but hopefully others will and we'll end up with a nice list for new laser owners to keep us all out of trouble :)

[Mike Hood]

I know it's gonna be controversial, but the LaserPro site has an article about kiss-cutting films. (http://www.laserproi.com/en/mark_showcase_detail.php?ID=English_070206232633)

And yes...

I know you should avoid anything that produces dangerous off-gassing, but I've kiss-cut vinyl film, and it makes little to no smoke or noxious fumes. I think if you were only doing it in smaller quantities and areas, you'd be fine.

That being said... it's hit or miss, but I have had good luck cutting film after it's applied to small areas. I also have a vinyl cutter, and a laser is no substitute for it for anything other than small bits here and there anyhow.

[David Epperson]

The manufacturing company I work for uses a lot of lasers to print part numbers on parts. Almost all of them have lens cleaning air wipes and vacuum fume extractors with some fairly elaborate filtering. Gassing off is not an issue here, as any released gasses are removed instantly.

What one operator did find out...don't attempt self tattooing with it. :D

[Dave Jones]

Here's a thread from last year on this subject:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40701

[Joe Pelonio]

One thing I was close to doing is cutting out vinyl. Good thing I read the "NO PVC" comment in the users manual.

I also thought "Cedar would probably be cool to burn", only to figure out 1/2 way through that it's full of sap and makes for a mess, and probably not a good idea to do a lot of cedar. So, I wondered what other woods are nasty to work with.


The fumes from PVC are not only corrosive to the machine but inhalation by humans can be fatal. Remember that rigid foam materials with names like Sintra and Komatex are PC.

It's been my experience that some of the exotic mahoganies will burn with flames but not cut through. Also, some plywoods are very hard to cut due to the varying density of the layers and glues used.

[Rodne Gold]

1) Dont EVER walk away when vector cutting.
2) No nylon and teflon
3) No engraving pvc , kiss cutting sign vinyl is not a problem with good evacuation and air assist on the odd occasion or 2.
You will get to do messy or smelly jobs now and then , so you cant say they a no-no.
Plastics will be your worst problem , do testing before accepting and if it smells acrid , rather leave it alone.

[Mark Koenig]

1) Dont EVER walk away when vector cutting.


Did you have a problem??? :eek:

[Judith Halliday]

Run a job without turning on the fan. I wondered why the machine was getting smoky.:eek:

[Mark Koenig]

Run a job without turning on the fan. I wondered why the machine was getting smoky.:eek:

Didn't really think of that problem... I am finishing an area in my basement originally designed for a Wood Burning Water Stove for household heat in the Winter... There would still be a chance of a catastrophic failure with the machine that could damage the house... :eek:

Plan on installing a web cam to monitor the lasers progress from upstairs but now thinking that a smoke detector would be a good idea... :rolleyes:

Shoot, if there was an emergency fire... I have a fire suppression system left over from the race car that could be remotely activated from upstairs with a simple electric solenoid... Sure this may be a bit much but why take a chance???

Thanks for sharing...:)

[Lee DeRaud]

Plan on installing a web cam to monitor the lasers progress from upstairs but now thinking that a smoke detector would be a good idea... :rolleyes:Ah, so if something catches fire, you might be able to get down there in time to save the house? Wonder how your insurance company will feel about paying to replace the laser.

You don't have to stand there staring at it the whole time, but I'd say staying in the room while a job is running is just good sense.

[Mike Null]

I recommend paying close attention to Rodne's rule no. 1.

[Judith Halliday]

Ah, so if something catches fire, you might be able to get down there in time to save the house? Wonder how your insurance company will feel about paying to replace the laser.

You don't have to stand there staring at it the whole time, but I'd say staying in the room while a job is running is just good sense.

I never walked away. I just watched the beam and the smoke kept getting thicker and thicker. Then smoke was coming out the vent. Then BAM, I looked at the fan and noticed it was on off. The loud music sure sounded good.

Tip #2:

Never blast the music so you can hear if the fan is on.:cool:

[Rodne Gold]

We had our first laser fire in 6 years when one of my operators walked away as one of my spirits was cutting acrylic , luckily it was caught WELL in time and no damage to the machine or the premises occured - the only sign there was an incident is the very slight distortion in the laser doors' acrylic panel.
GCC have an add on , called smartguard which can monitor and detect fires.
I would NEVER rely on a webcam etc to monitor jobs , if you cant be there , then postpone the job till you can.

[Mark Koenig]

Ah, so if something catches fire, you might be able to get down there in time to save the house? Wonder how your insurance company will feel about paying to replace the laser.

You don't have to stand there staring at it the whole time, but I'd say staying in the room while a job is running is just good sense.

Thought I covered that with a fire system and smoke detector...;)


Shoot, if there was an emergency fire... I have a fire suppression system left over from the race car that could be remotely activated from upstairs with a simple electric solenoid... Sure this may be a bit much but why take a chance???

[Mark Koenig]

GCC have an add on , called smartguard which can monitor and detect fires.

Do you have a link??? Thanks Mark...

[Mike Mackenzie]

GCC have an add on , called smartguard which can monitor and detect fires

This is a standard feature on all of the new uls models as well as using tempered safety glass on all the top doors.

This will help a lot of systems to survive the possible fire the only thing that scares me is I hope people don't just think that the fire alarms and glass top are there so they don't have to worry about it.

[Lee DeRaud]

Thought I covered that with a fire system and smoke detector...;)I've seen what the inside of the car looks like after that kind of fire suppression system goes off: all things considered, it'll be cheaper to replace the laser than repair it...cleaning up the room it's in won't be much fun either.

[Mark Koenig]

I've seen what the inside of the car looks like after that kind of fire suppression system goes off: all things considered, it'll be cheaper to replace the laser than repair it...cleaning up the room it's in won't be much fun either.

You have not seen the new fire systems that do not leave all the residue like the old foam units... Think of all the electronics and computer equipment used in modern day drag cars... My car has Digital Ignition, Electronic Fuel Injection, and Sensors Everywhere... Wouldn't pick out something that would cause even more damage than the fire...

Thanks for your comment and keep them comming... :)

[Dave Jones]

a fire system and smoke detector...
So that way only your laser is destroyed instead of burning down the house?

I'm not sure how you would install the supression system inside the engraver, so it wouldn't be effective until the engraver is up in flames.

I think it makes much more sense to listen to the experts and stay in the same room while it's engraving.

[Lee DeRaud]

Thanks for your comment and keep them comming... :)Don't much see the point: you seem to have your mind made up.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Joe Pelonio]

From what I've seen in my laser work, the most likely scenario is a flareup burning the Y belt when near the left edge. Unless standing there looking at it you're probbaly not going to stop that from happening but then it's not likely to go burn down the house. In the case of cutting thick acylic with the paper film on it, or wood, the material catching fire would be fed by the inflow of air from the exhaust fan, and if that material became fully involved, I would think that the flames would be contained in the metal box with glass top that is the laser. Once the fuel is gone, the flames would go out so couldn't reach the house, as long as you have metal exhaust piping.

As long as caught quickly damage would likely be limited to the laser itself, but that could be fatal.

Not that I'd ever want to test this theory. Stay in the same room.

[Nancy Laird]

Run a job without turning on the fan. I wondered why the machine was getting smoky.:eek:

Been there, done that, got a laser shop full of smoke and odor. :D :eek:

Last Saturday I was running a job of bookmarks from 1/32" Finland birch, on the 20W with a cutting grid with the exhaust blowing. I was in the same room, just not standing at the machine watching it. The rastering went find - when it started vectoring out the individual pieces, several of them actually caught on fire, flared and smoldered, :eek: :eek: ruining an entire sheet of material. Part of the problem was that the material is so light that the exhaust wasn't holding the material down (this particular grid isn't conducive to downdraft exhaust), and the focus for the vectoring went way off and caused the fire. Tried taping the corners of the material down on the grid, same thing happened as the pieces were popping up after being cut. I don't think I'll be trying to run this material on the 20W any more - it does great on the 40W with the ULS downdraft cutting table, but I was trying to shortcut and run two batches of the same order at the same time on two different machines. Won't do that again unless it's 3/4" maple.

Nancy

[Rob Bosworth]

Nancy, have you ever tried microtabbing your pieces to help hold them in place while vector cutting. When the machine is done, all you have to do is pull the whole sheet out at once. and just snap the parts out of the weed. You can do the microtabbing by either interupting your line, or insert a small section into the line of a different color and change your PPI so it stitches through that color.

[Nancy Laird]

Nancy, have you ever tried microtabbing your pieces to help hold them in place while vector cutting. When the machine is done, all you have to do is pull the whole sheet out at once. and just snap the parts out of the weed. You can do the microtabbing by either interupting your line, or insert a small section into the line of a different color and change your PPI so it stitches through that color.

Never thought of that, Rob. I'll have to take a look and see if I can do that. Might be a problem, though, because the vector rectangles are just drawn in Corel X3 with the rectangle tool and are one continuous line. How can I do an interruption to those?

Nancy

[Lee DeRaud]

Never thought of that, Rob. I'll have to take a look and see if I can do that. Might be a problem, though, because the vector rectangles are just drawn in Corel X3 with the rectangle tool and are one continuous line. How can I do an interruption to those?There's probably an easier way, but try drawing a skinny rectangle (like 0.01"x0.25") across the shape's boundary, use 'virtual segment delete' tool to remove the portion of the shape inside it, and then delete it, leaving a gap.

For non-delicate shapes like you're doing, just vector-cutting at 150PPI should work: it sort of 'micro-perfs' the boundary because the dots don't quite touch.

[Mark Koenig]

Don't much see the point: you seem to have your mind made up.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

That's cool... Just looking for information and did decide that a fire system would be in my best interest to protect my investment...

[Bill Cunningham]

You can make a tiny break in a solid hairline, by converting it to curves, then double click the node tool on the line making a node, then make another one.. You can then either break the nodes and move them apart, or after making several sets like that, use the break apart command, and just delete the little sections with the pick tool..Usually two or three breaks is enough, then just combine or group them back up, and duplicate as many complete units as you need..

[Mark Koenig]

So that way only your laser is destroyed instead of burning down the house?

I'm not sure how you would install the suppression system inside the engraver, so it wouldn't be effective until the engraver is up in flames.

I think it makes much more sense to listen to the experts and stay in the same room while it's engraving.

You know what??? I'm an idiot at times... Just finished the installation of the 36 EXT and can't imagine leaving it for a second when it's working... Even setting up the office about 10 feet from the laser so I can monitor it at ALL times...

My apologies and gratitude to all that help us inexperienced new owners...

Thanks Mark...

[Mark Koenig]

Don't much see the point: you seem to have your mind made up.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Decided that you are wright... Thanks for your advice...

[Bill Cunningham]

The Number ONE Rule::D

[Mike Null]

Or just put a tiny white square on the line.

[Paul Proffitt]

Purpleheart - test before trying to vector cut this dense wood if you want to keep it. It burns easily and is extremely hard to cut.

Don't vector cut veneer with the fan running (at a high flow volume). Once the cut pieces become airborne there may not be much to save.

Paul Proffitt
Epilog Legend 24TT 45 watt, CorelDraw 12, Illustrator CS, etc.

[Doug Griffith]

I cut a lot of fabric that wants to get sucked out of the machine by the exhaust fan (or lift up, get out of focus, and catch fire). Since I cut the same shapes on a regular basis, I set up fixtures which are basically sheets of clear acrylic that rest on top of the fabric and hold it down by gravity. The fabric cut paths have small breaks in them (micro tabs). The acrylic is cut with the same path that has been offset by .05 all the way around. Corresponding tabs in the acrylic keep pieces in place. This method works for paper as well.

One thing to think about when setting up your laser system: don't skimp on the exhaust fan. It not only evacuates the fumes but also keeps a steady flow of moving air over the substrate. This, along with air assist, will help reduce chance of fire.

Cheers

[Nancy Laird]

Don't vector cut veneer with the fan running (at a high flow volume). Once the cut pieces become airborne there may not be much to save.

That's where a downdraft cutting table earns its price!! We were losing pieces out the exhaust, so LOML put a piece of hardware cloth over the exhaust port. Still we lost several pieces because they would fall back down on the portion of the veneer that hadn't yet been cut.

Since we got the cutting table, we haven't lost a single piece--we turned out a job of 1500 pieces about 3-4 weeks ago without a single loss!!

Not only that, but since the cutting table is a downdraft, it keeps a lot of the smoke off your workpiece, making clean-up a lot easier and quicker--and no burn marks on the back.

Nancy