Well, that was a mistake

[Cliff Polubinsky]

And it's gonna cost me.

With Woodcraft's 10-15% off sale today I finally gave in to the LN LA Jack plane that's been calling to me for a while. Took it home, honed the blade, and discovered THAT'S why God invented planes.

There is such a difference between the LN and the Stanley's I've picked up off of Ebay that I'm seriously considering replacing some of them with LN LA equivalents and an additional high angle blade for figured wood. I'm not trying to belittle the quality of vintage Stanley's - rather how much I thought I could properly fettle one.

So, the question becomes which ones should I consider? I don't intend to abandon my tailed jointer or planer. I look on them as apprentices who do the grunt work so I can concentrate on the important/creative/more fun stuff. But occasionally I'm faced with a project that requires panels wider than my jointer or planer can handle.

Here's my present fleet:

Antique French wooden scrub - this one's fine
Stanley 60 1/2 - new model
Stanley 4c
Stanley 5
LN LA Jack - new from Woodcraft
Stanley 7
LN Medium Shoulder

For you experts -
Would the LN Skew Angle Block make a better choice than the LN LA Block plane?
Does it make sense to pick up the LN LA Smoother or can I cover that with the Jack?
And for that matter, is there any advantage to pick up the LA Jointer or just get close with the Stanley 7 I have and refine it with the LA Jack?

Thanks

Cliff

[Doug Shepard]

Congratulations. The LA Jack was my first LN too. It hooked me as well. I aint no expert but I've often wondered what the whole benefit of the skew angle block was for. The vast majority of the time I'm skewing the regular LA block anyway so ...??? I'm sure someone will know the answer though.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Cliff, Don't give up on your older planes yet. Now that you have the new LN, you have a basis for comparison. Most likely your fettling missed a couple of points or you just haven't tuned up the right areas enough. Learning to do all the right things on your own is time consuming and is very much a trial and error process. If at all possible seek out a local club or guild if you have one and try and find a mentor. Immediate feedback and analysis of your process and results in real time can make all the differnce inthe world and greatly shorten the learning curve.

[Caleb Dietrich]

Hi Cliff,

What vintage are your stanley bench planes? Have you replaced the irons? It doesn't seem like you've made much of a mistake. I think you have just about everything you need. If you haven't read any of Garrett Hack's books/articles,I would suggest it. It has been very helpful to me. In an article he submitted to our Guild in NH he listed the five essential hand planes as LN 60 1/2, Jointer (Stanley Bedrock 607), general bench plane (Bedrock 604), dedicated smother (Norris infill), and a shoulder plane (stanley 92). You have almost all of these covered. Your Stanley's might just need some fine tuning. You won't dissapointed in a LN 60 1/2.
And you might want to invest in a dedicated smoother. I haven't jumped on board the LA trend, so I can't be much help there. But, I have a LN 4 1/2 with a high angle (York Pitch) frog, and it is unbelievable. I'm working on a few curly maple tables and it leaves a flawless finish.
Hope this helps. It looks like you are a plane or two , and a little tuning, away from having everything you need. Then you can buy a specialty plane (scewed block) here and there as you need them.

[Tom Sontag]

I'll reiterate the LN 60.5 endorsement. I have not tried the skew block, but I cannot imagine a tool I'd reach for more than my LN block. It is one of those tools that could not be improved; how many like that do we own?

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Caleb,

I didn't mean buying the Stanley's were a mistake. I was tongue in cheek implying that buying the LN was a mistake because now I want to replace everything I have with LN planes and that's going to run a fortune.

I like the approach of the LA models since with their bevel-up nature I can switch the blade and convert the plane to a standard angle or York pitch equivalent.

I'm new at this so could you explain what would be the advantage of adding the smoother when the Jack does such a nice job smoothing? I would think that the longer bed would also provide better registration and flatter results.

Thanks.

Cliff

[Gary Herrmann]

Uh Tom, shouldn't the LN be out at Lumber Logs so we can all enjoy it when checking out the grain on wood we're about to purchase?

[Caleb Dietrich]

Okay, I understand. I thought you were implying that you felt you wasted your money on the Stanley's.
Like I said, I don't have much experience with the LA planes. But from what I read on this forum, people really like them. I can see how they are versitile.
A smoothing plane is shorter because at the point you are using it your surface should all ready have been planed flat. You're goal is just to take a final pass or two that will leave a surface ready to be finished. The short smoothing plane will follow any (small) inconsistancies in the surface and take that final shaving. With a longer plane you might end up regressing to the flatening stage. If that makes any sense...Your surface should already be sufficiently flat. But it might not be .001" like the bottom of you plane is. A short plane is best suited to take a consistant shaving.
When relying on planes to produce a finished surface, it is best to have a dedicated smoother. The iron in my 4 1/2 is honed with a slight camber, so I can take shavings without the corners of the cutter leaving noticable lines in my work. I also have the mouth set very tight and the chipbreaker down very near to the end of the iron. Both of these adjustments help to eliminate tear out. I leave my smoother set like this, and I know it is sharp enough to do it's work because I only use it to take those final smoothing passes.
So I guess the question of having a dedicated smoother is a matter of the length of the plane, but it's also a matter of adusting the plane so you can get consistant results whenever you reach for it. Of the planes you have, your 4c is the most likely candidate for the job.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

The Stanley's were definitely not a waste. Since I had never used hand planes before they were a way to dip my toe in, figuratively speaking. There was no way I would have payed the money for a Lie Nielsen until I understood how a hand plane could make my work better or easier. Now that I understand what a plane can do and after using a properly set up, quality plane, the slope has gone vertical, especially since the bonus check is coming this week. So here's how I'm thinking of reconfiguring my fleet.

Antique French wooden scrub - keeping this one. It works fine
Stanley 60 1/2 - replace this with the LN version
Stanley 4c - not sure about this one yet. May keep just for practice
LN LA Smoother - add this one
Stanley 5 - probably pass this on to a friend
LN LA Jack - what started this whole dilemma
Stanley 7 - keep this and take it to a fettling class at Woodcraft. Don't use it enough to justify the cost of a LN.
LN Medium Shoulder - keep
LN 112 Scraper plane - add one of these, too.
Also add a standard pitch and York pitch blade for the Jack and Smoother.

Along with the card scrapers, the model 80 and a spokeshave or two, this should cover things pretty good.

But always open for suggestions.

Cliff