Not About Lasers - About Sandblasting Equipment

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

Hi, everyone, we need some advice. When you have a sandlbaster or any piece of equipment delivered should you be expected to hold up the driver and uncrate the machine to make sure everything is o.k.? Long story short, we just had our sandblaster delivered, signed saying "received in good condition", appreared from the outside to be great. When we took off the skrinkwrap and the cardboard we found damage, we are not happy. Then when we call the company they ask about the machine being in a box . . . asking if the box did not show damage, there was no box, none, none at all, were we suppose to know that there should have been a box?

Please when you answer this, be kind. You know I ask my husband if the BIG man upstairs was trying to tell us something, James said NO, it just show us that we are headed in the right direction and that little guy downstairs is throwing all he can at us.

God Bless,
Zelma (Psalms 18:2)

[Phil Sanders]

Zelma:

The guy on the phone was asking about who, or whose insurance, should be tagged with the repair charges. If there was visible damage to the cardboard and the shrink wrap was torn, then the trucking company caused the damage, and they should pay for it.

Your answer should have been something like: There was only cardboard spacers and shrink wrap. No visible damage could be seen to the cardboard spacers or shrink wrap when the product taken off the truck and inspected for shipment damage.

By the way, depending on how it was shipped, be aware that a sandblasting machine may not be a consumer product. Large Machine tools are many times placed on the truck at the factory (Freight On Board-Factory) and the buyer assumes insurance risk for the shipment to the buyer's receiving dock (location.) This would have been spelled out in the sales document or contract. For production machine tools, this is an important part of the sales document, who has insurance risk for the item while in transit: the buyer, or shipper. IIRC, the a common carrier trucking company (18 wheeler type shipping) only covers so much per pound for its insurance which isn't much.

HTH

Phil

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

I just got off the phone with the company, they'll replace parts (but the system will still be crunched) or we pay for shipping both ways. He was surprise to find out that a 3rd party trucking company delivered and that we were not called before delivery as was pre-arranged. Oh, and he said the only insurance on this equipment was our bill of laiden(?).

Thanks for your reply.

God Bless,
Zelma (Psalms 18:2)

[Phil Sanders]

FYI: Bill of Lading:

This is a term used (for a legal piece of paper) in the transportation industry and for business, very common. Not used at all for consumer trade.

Google for WIKI Bill of Lading.

Lading is just an old English word for the verb loading a truck, ship, or other transportation. Lots of business court cases going back many hundreds of years, so it still has importance.

Two major pieces of information truckers use, weight of product and weight of dunnage. Dunnage is the weight of the packing material and the pallet skids for the products. Thus the truck scales, knowing the weight of the truck unloaded, plus the weight of the product and dunnage from the Bill of Lading should have the weight of the truck on the scales, or at least very close.

The Bill of Lading also needs specific instructions to the truck driver as to who and where to deliver the goods to and conditions of releasing the goods. The Bill of Lading also gives specific instructions as to who is paying for the trucking shipment cost. And sometimes has info on the who covers the insurance cost.

Again, this is a document that is needed by the truck driver and has lots of legal meaning jargon on the back. Again, Google for Bill of Lading and you will get lots of information.

Phil

[Mike Null]

Zelma:

Look into filing a concealed damage claim. http://www.abfs.com/tools/claims/claim_info.asp?bhcp=1

The above is a link to a freight company site and you can explore from there.

Take pictures of everything including the packaging if there is anything left.

Press your shipper to rectify this matter if the packaging was not damaged or inadequate.

This will take persistence but based on what i am reading you need to put pressure on your supplier.

All of us might like to know which suppliers pack their products in such a way.

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

I emailed the company and told them since the machine was not in the box that he said it should have been in that we believed that whoever removed the box more than likely re-packaged the entire thing so nobody would be able to tell it was damaged from the outside. He called sortly there after and said that it was not shipped in a box, they were out of boxes so it was just shrinkwrapped with some cardboard place around the glass. He was very surprised to find out a 3rd party trucking company had delivered our machine and that we were not called in advance as we had set up. This is one of the biggest named sandblasters that I have ever heard of, we went with them because it had a great filteration system and we thought buying from a "Name" would be best. Did research this time . . . No, they haven't refused to help, they just want us to pay for shipping to them then back to us??? It's about $370, one way so we are looking at about $740., or they'll send new housing, motor and door. It's just the idea that we paid $3995 for this thing and then get it and it's messed up. It is really aggravting, because whoever messed this machine up, be it the company or the trucking company, either can afford the money a lot more than we can.

[Ray McAlister]

I recieved a 35% discount on a washer or dryer 8 years ago with a dent on the side next to the wall(a discount is less work for the store/seller).....If the case or body is dented and will still work, ask for a discount for "damaged", "dented" goods, just stay calm and climb the ladder, be sure to log names and times, fax/e-mail a complaint letter to corp headquarters and follow up with a letter. Just stay calm and professional, May work, may not. Best of luck......

[Leigh Costello]

We had a similar experience with a shipment we received some time ago. We requested a lift gate on the delivery truck so we could get the product off the truck. Paid a lot for it and when the truck showed up, no lift gate. We had to have the product to make a deadline, so I made a call and only by threatening to involve a 3rd party got the charge removed by the freight company. Fortunately, my nephew the college weight lifter was visiting and we were able to get shipment unloaded. Now I am very specific about which freight company I use and get a paper copy in advance of shipping instructions.

I would definitely post your supplier's name here if you don't get satisfaction. And if you do get your heart's desire, post the supplier's name then, also. I would not want to deal with a company that doesn't stand behind their shipping practices.

Good luck.

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

I have good news, the company emailed me last night. They have decided to pick up the equipment, at no cost to us, return it to their company, repair and return to us. Hopefully it will be like brand new. The only problem I see is that we have a company waiting on us to see how we are at sand carving, we don't know how long we are looking at . . . yet, I expect it to be at least 3 more weeks. One day lost is costing us money. However, we do have to be thankful that someone, somewhere touched somebody's heart and they decided to do the right thing.

Thank you guys for all your responses and may God bless each of you.

Thanks,
Zelma (Psalms 18:2)

[Bill Cunningham]

I have good news, the company emailed me last night. They have decided to pick up the equipment, at no cost to us, return it to their company, repair and return to us. Hopefully it will be like brand new. The only problem I see is that we have a company waiting on us to see how we are at sand carving, we don't know how long we are looking at . . . yet, I expect it to be at least 3 more weeks. One day lost is costing us money. However, we do have to be thankful that someone, somewhere touched somebody's heart and they decided to do the right thing.

Thank you guys for all your responses and may God bless each of you.

Thanks,
Zelma (Psalms 18:2)


Maybe they have someone on staff that reads this forum :D

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

We can always hope, and I do.

zll

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

Good morning everyone, I am so sorry if I am boring the socks off of everyone, it is not my intent. It is just so hard for me to be "mean" to people, even if I am in the right, I need moral support and guess what . . . tag you're it.

Below is part of an email I received from the company yesterday . . .Hello, I did try calling you earlier today, but there was no answer. I am waiting for the damage cabinet’s return. We will estimate the damage. I have you scheduled for shipment on Friday. A new cabinet will be shipped out on Friday with the sand.

____________ is absorbing all the expenses for the inbound freight and will repair the damaged cabinet (like new) expect for the freight back to your location. The freight cost is $424 with the same carrier. I did find another freight carrier for a little less than $300 (APEX Transportation). Let me know which carrier you would like to use and I will schedule the shipment.

My response

____, it states in you manual, "if there are any external or internal damages to the equipment that was not noted on the carrier's bill of lading contact ___________customer service @ 1-800-___-____ immediately to process a damage claim. Keep the packaging in tact. If possible, take photo's of damage." This shows that this happens and is expected to happen. The fact that we were not contacted by the trucking company before delivery as we had arranged, the fact that there was no sand, there was no tie down or wooden block on the shaker handle, proves this machine was not packaged the way it should have been. We do not feel responsible since this was damaged when we received it, and we do not feel we should have to pay any more out of pocket expenses. We ask that you choose the shipping company.

Since we went with ________ because of the recommendations we received from the different engravers forums and sand carving forums, we will however pose this scenario to these forums and see is we are looking at this all wrong, if everyone thinks we are we will step up to the plate and pay our part for the shipping.

Thank you and God Bless,
Zelma Litmzann


Now, again I ask, if you reply to this, please be kind, I'm breakable.

May God bless you,
Zelma (Psalms 18:2)

[Scott Perry]

I am in agreement with you guys. They did the packaging, which was not properly done. I would fight hard to have a new one shipped at their expense. You paid for the shipping once and that should be enough. They should go out of their way to make this right. There are plenty of good sandblasting cabinets out there. Good Luck.

[Jim Huston]

Ditto!!!!!!

[Luke Phillips]

Zelma - from the looks of the photos the damage was done by a forklift. Since you didn't see any obvious signs of damage when it was delivered, it's likely the depot, where the unit was loaded onto the "other" carrier,realized they damaged it and then wrapped it to cover it up.:mad: I'd be trying to get damages from whoever delivered it - not the company you bought it from. Still - overall dissapointing for you - sorry for your troubles. Go ahead and tell the forum who you bought the unit from - we'll spam 'em :eek: - just kidding!

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

Well, here is their response, I guess it is time to cry "UNCLE" or bring in the lawyers???

____________________

Zelma, I completely understand that you do not want to pay any more then you already have. _______ has step in and taken the claim for the inbound freight of $424.00 and replacing the entire sandcarving system.

______ mentioned to us that you did not want to system repaired but replaced. A damaged claim can be filed. The claim would have become void knowing the system moved to another location after delivery. Now if the claim was approved it would only be to repair the unit because there was not structural damage. The cabinet pictures appeared to be repairable and the freight company would not have shipped the cabinet back to ________ and back out to your company. I believe that the cabinet was damaged during shipment and not by the cabinet moving locations. On paper it is very difficult to have this claim approved.

This is just an unfortunate situation and is neither your fault nor ________, but we are trying to resolve this situation. I hope you understand that _________ has gone beyond any manufacturer carrying for your needs. We have absorbed costs at our loss to make this situation right. What I can do is ask ______ to pay for the Residential Fee and Lift Gate fee totals $100 on this shipment back to your location. Looking at this order _______ has paid for shipment twice for this order and unfortunately cannot a 3rd time.



Look forward to hearing from you,

___________

____________

[Keith Outten]

Ask for a full refund and return the cabinet. Then post the name of the company so the rest of us won't have to suffer as you have. Clearly they are not responsible, any reasonable company would pay for the return and then ship you a brand new unit which is what you paid for in the first place.

I hope you paid for the cabinet with a credit card. I would process a charge back in a heart beat and let them deal with the credit card carrier. Believe me they will soften up real quick.

.

[Dave Jones]

Looking at this order _______ has paid for shipment twice for this order and unfortunately cannot a 3rd time.

Did they give you free shipping the first time? If not, then they did not "pay for shipment twice". You paid shipping the first time.

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

Yes and NO, we brought the machine because the shipping was free.

I know you are all going to yell at me but . . . James got off the phone with the sales manager and we have a, excuse me, we are suppose to have a brand new machine on it's way to us as we speak, at no more expense to us. I know, I know, why would I want to do business with this company, in two words . . . filteration system. James looked a long time before we decided on this company, and one major factor was the filteration system, there were other reasons but this was one of them that we didn't find anywhere else, not like this one anyhow. I will keep you posted and as soon as our machine arrives (will believe it when we see it) I will more than happy to let you all know the company that has been so wonderful to us. http://www.cuttingedgesandcarving.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif

Hey, they still can't have my joy, we're going through. Just remember it is in the valleys that we grow.

God bless you all,
Zelma

[Marvin Sheriff]

As for your original question, yes you should hold the driver to uncrate or unpackage a piece of equipment like that. I Just got my new sandcarver this week and I made my driver stand there while I uncrated the whole thing and we both inspected it for any damage no matter how slight.

Marvin Sheriff
100 Watt LMI Sl3400, Crystalblast 3624

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

Yeah, hindsight, thank you, if we could do it over, but then again I guess we will in about a week. The driver will wait until it is unwrapped and inspected, I wish I could say uncrated but all it had was shrink wrap and two pieces of cardboard.

Thanks for your reply and God bless.
Zelma (Psalms 18:2)

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

It went GREAT! Rayzist had our new system delivered yesterday (March 15, 2007) and all is well! Thank you all for being our support group. Please be kind, we all make mistakes.

God Bless,
Zelma (Psalms 18:2)