Hand Rubbed Finishes with your ROS

[Keith Outten]

I've posted messages before about using my Random Orbital Sander (ROS) with Scotch 3M pads to power rub a final finish. The time saved and the quality of the finish puts this technique on my top ten list for the year. All you need is the white pads and paste wax although I sometimes use a green pad for just a few seconds before switching to the white pads. Coat the surface of your project with wax and power buff until the finish is smooth as silk. A small plaque takes about 3 minutes to rub...start to finish.

I've been using the 6" by 8" pads and cutting my own 5" disks, they aren't hook and loop but they stick reasonably well. This week I found a source for purchasing the 5" white 3M pads that are hook and loop. I contacted A & H Abrasives, a division of Woodworker's Supply, and asked if they could provide this product. As luck would have it they did have the 5" disks in stock. The disks are not in their current catalog but I have provided all of the information below for those of you who also use this technique.

This process works on wood, metal, marble, corian and lots of other materials. Great for applying paste wax to the cast iron in your workshop and will put a beautiful protective finish on your table saw.

A & H Abrasives
1108 North Glenn Rd.
Casper Wyoming 82601
800-831-6066

Item# 912769 - 5" nonwoven w/loop White pk5
$7.29 for 5 disks

One pad will last for hours of power rubbing so this is a very inexpensive technique.

[Tony Sade]

Thanks, Keith. I'm all for labor saving techniques, especially ones that involve power tools. ;) I just placed an order so I can use the pads/sander on a small table that's just about ready to be rubbed out.

[Don Abele]

Thanks Keith. Appreciate the information.

Be well,

Doc

[Chris Padilla]

Keith,

I just did my first hand-rubbed piece (3 laminated pieces of A1 grade maple ply with maple edging); it was a heavy-duty shelf I built for an expecting couple. I used Velvit Oil and with application of the second coat, I rubbed it out with 400 grit sandpaper keeping it nicely lubed with the Velvit Oil.

I was AMAZED how smooth the finish turned out after using a soft cloth to mop up the mess and do the final rubbing. Even my wife was quite impressed.

Naturally, I used my RO to take care of the sanding but I was staring at the sander as I was doing the final hand-rubbing with the cloth and wondering how I might incorporate it into this process!

I don't know your experience with Velvit Oil (I love this stuff, BTW), but they claim you don't need anything else for finishing after it cures for a day or two.

I am wondering what kind of wax to use as a final, final step. I'd like to protect and potentially shine up the piece further.

Thanks,

Chris

[Tony Sade]

I can't tell from your post-do you let the wax dry before putting the sander on the piece? Do you use a variable speed ROS? What speed do you use, would you recommend? Thanks

[Keith Outten]

Chris,

I haven't used Velvit Oil yet, most of the time I use Nitro Laquer as I need it to dry fast so that I can get the engraving done.

Tony,

I put the wax on and set the ROS on the wax immediately. After two or three applications of wax it will harden while you are rubbing it out. This leaves a final finish that is smooth as silk and looks great. If you are looking for the really high gloss finish you can do that too.

I use a Porter Cable VS ROS model 333. It is the only time I ever use the variable speed though. I don't think the speed is that big an issue, the process is very forgiving.

I did a repair to a very high end dining table that had a high gloss finish that looked an inch deep. I was worried at first but it buffed out perfectly and I was able to remove all of the tiny scratches from day to day use. The table top looked like brand new and the repair was perfect, a professional told me it couldn't be done and that I would have to recoat the entire table top. I'm told this technique works well for cleaning and polishing kitchen counter tops as well.

[David Rose]

Keith, is this all you did? Did you sand it first? At what grit did you stop, if you sanded? You must have had a very flat surface if you got away with no sanding.

David


I've posted messages before about using my Random Orbital Sander (ROS) with Scotch 3M pads to power rub a final finish. The time saved and the quality of the finish puts this technique on my top ten list for the year. All you need is the white pads and paste wax although I sometimes use a green pad for just a few seconds before switching to the white pads. Coat the surface of your project with wax and power buff until the finish is smooth as silk. A small plaque takes about 3 minutes to rub...start to finish.

I've been using the 6" by 8" pads and cutting my own 5" disks, they aren't hook and loop but they stick reasonably well. This week I found a source for purchasing the 5" white 3M pads that are hook and loop. I contacted A & H Abrasives, a division of Woodworker's Supply, and asked if they could provide this product. As luck would have it they did have the 5" disks in stock. The disks are not in their current catalog but I have provided all of the information below for those of you who also use this technique.

This process works on wood, metal, marble, corian and lots of other materials. Great for applying paste wax to the cast iron in your workshop and will put a beautiful protective finish on your table saw.

A & H Abrasives
1108 North Glenn Rd.
Casper Wyoming 82601
800-831-6066

Item# 912769 - 5" nonwoven w/loop White pk5
$7.29 for 5 disks

One pad will last for hours of power rubbing so this is a very inexpensive technique.

[Todd Burch]

Keith, thanks for the heads up.

Our DuPont Corian counter tops (cameo white) in the kitchen have never really met with my wife's approval. The numb-nuts that installed them really didn't give them a proper polishing, and we even had to have them back out to improve the seams right after we moved in.

Upon your suggestion, yesterday evening I got out my PC333VS and both some white (the finest, 3M #7445) and green (the second finest, 3M #7448) Scotch Brite pads (yeah, I know - 3M!) and had a go of it.

I started with the white, on slow speed, and while it polished a little bit, it really wasn't making much headway.

I swapped over to the green, and found that on the fastest speed, I got the most results. I used a little water as lubricant to cut the dust down, and so I could see where I had been, but if you use to much, you'll fling water everywhere. It doesn't take much water.

After I covered my area with green, I went back to the white on the fastest speed. It was a significant improvement. I only did a 6' long section of the counter. I finished up with some acrylic polish (some stuff called GEL-Poilsh in a pink can, good for acrylic, I found under the sink).

When my wife got home later in the evening, she thought I had left something wet on the counter it was so shiny (shiny relative to the rest of the counters - certainly not a high-gloss, piano finish). Now, when looking at the reflection of the ceiling lights in the countertop, instead of seeing a large, very diffused bright spot, I now see a blury outline of the light bulb. In a raking position, I now could read the print from a book and can see very good color reflection.

There are still numerous fine scratchs in the tops, and if I was interested in getting those it, I would bump up to Scotch Brite #7447 - the maroon pad, but overall it looks much much better. Now, I get to do the rest of the kitchen. THANKS A LOT KEITH!! (for the tip, but not the extra to-do!)

Todd.

[John Miliunas]

Thanks Keith! This one is now definitely on my "have to try" list! :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

Keith, is this all you did? Did you sand it first? At what grit did you stop, if you sanded? You must have had a very flat surface if you got away with no sanding.

David


Not Keith but I stopped at 150 grit with my RO on my maple shelf. After 1 coat of Velvit Oil and letting it dry for 24 hours, I applied a second coat and added enough to where I could literally move it around with my gloved hands without sticking. I then got out the 400 grit and went to town.

They say to let it dry a bit (get tacky) to allow the slurry created from "wet" sanding to embed into the wood (I guess this works very nicely on open grain woods like oak...haven't tried it yet) and bond. Then it is time to rub off all the oil/slurry and polish it a bit and set the piece aside to cure for 24-48 hours.

Man, this shelf is baby-butt smooth! :)

Chris

[Dave Arbuckle]

Upon your suggestion, yesterday evening I got out my PC333VS and both some white (the finest, 3M #7445) and green (the second finest, 3M #7448) Scotch Brite pads (yeah, I know - 3M!) and had a go of it.Todd.

Apologies for the correction, Todd, but there are two grades between ScotchBrite green and white. The order is green, maroon, gray, white. Y'all may find the white phase will go faster if you supply the intermediate steps, rather than jumping straight from green to white.

Like Keith, I really like a finish rubbed out in this method. Be forewarned though, it will remove very little irregularities like brushmarks, because the pad follows the surface.

Dave

[Keith Outten]

David,

That's It! After spraying two coats of laquer and letting it dry for about an hour apply a coat of wax and rub the surface with a ROS with a white 3M pad. No Sanding at all. Using Sherwin Williams nitro laquer (satin) the finish was absolutely smooth and looked like I had hand rubbed it for a week.

I've used this technique with black marble tile and lots of other materials but I haven't tried it for waxing cars yet :)


Keith, is this all you did? Did you sand it first? At what grit did you stop, if you sanded? You must have had a very flat surface if you got away with no sanding.

David

Todd,

Your right, the white pads do not cut at all they just polish. That's why they are safe to use on funiture with high gloss finishes. The green, brown, etc 3M pads each have a different level of abrasive action. The green pad can be used if your finish is very rough, on a wooden finish it only takes a minute to smooth down a one square foot area then switch to the white pad.

I will be experimenting more on Corian this week as I have several Corian plaques to produce. I don't plan to use water, I think a fine polish or just wax will be the ticket. I have also used paste wax with 1500 grit sandpaper on my ROS for some types of jobs.

PS

Todd on second thought I think a damp rag might be just right for Corian. You could wipe the surface just ahead of the ROS to keep a very thin layer of water on the surface.

[Todd Burch]

Dave, thanks for the correction on the name of the color. Change my post to refer to grey everywhere I used the term green, and that's what I did. I did not use green, but grey. Without a reference, for a true "green" one, I made the assumption that the one I was using was green. The part# I referred to is correct, and it is the second finest.

Keith, are you Corian certified? I am not. Would you recommend waxing Corian (for a counter top)?

Todd.

[Keith Outten]

Todd,

No I'm not Corian certified, I didn't know there was a certification :)

For my purposes wax would not be a problem. I use Corian these days for engraving plaques and as base material for sign stands. I don't think I would use paste wax on Corian surface used for food preparation. I'm sure that there is a product that would be suitable, maybe Ken Dolph knows.



Keith, are you Corian certified? I am not. Would you recommend waxing Corian (for a counter top)?

Todd.

[Ken Dolph]

Keith,

I would not use wax on Corian as it could flake off later. I will test it and get back to you on this. I usually Sand to 2,500 grit and buff with Nova Acrylic polish #2. Or I will use 6000 and 1200 grit Micro-mesh.

For those scratched countertops you can sand them with 250 grit waterproof sandpaper. Do it wet and your wife will not be upset by dust. Then go up to 400 grit for a satin finish. Then continue with finer grits doubling as you go. If you through the paper in water over night before you work it works much better. There will be no sharp edges that may scratch.

Of course all of this information is in duPont's booklet "How to Work With Corian in the Home Workshop" We send it out free. Just click on my link.

I hope this helps.

Ken

[Mike Leonard]

Greetings All,

I just placed an order with A&H Abrasives. The lady I talked with informed me that these pads can also be ordered at woodworkers.com for the same money.
She also gave me the item #'s for the maroon and grey pads.

5" white 912769
5" grey 912783
5" maroon 912776

They do not carry the green pads. They will also make custom bandsaw blades and custom sanding belts.

customsandingbelts.com
custombandsawblades.com

Looking forward to using these. I have a new tablesaw I would like to put a mirror finish on.

[nic obie]

In the past I've always used automotive rubbing and polishing compounds with a buffer for the hand rubbed look.

I can't wait to try out the scotch-brite method. It sure sounds quicker.

[stevecater]

Keith,

Do you use the pads & ROS for leveling film finishes as well as final rubbing out?

Currently working with a shellac finish.

Thanks,
Steve

[Keith Outten]

Steve,

I use a green pad with paste wax if I need just a little abrasive cutting to smooth the surface, then the white pad with wax for the final finsh. This works well on laquer, I don't see why it wouldn't work with shellac.


Keith,

Do you use the pads & ROS for leveling film finishes as well as final rubbing out?

Currently working with a shellac finish.

Thanks,
Steve

[Mark Singer]

That is an excellent tip> I will try it. I have been using the pads by hand and they work great on curved surfaces. Much better than steel wool.
I will order the hook and loop and try it with paste wax. Did you ever try it to wet apply finishing oil?
Thanks,
Mark

[Chris Padilla]

That is an excellent tip> I will try it. I have been using the pads by hand and they work great on curved surfaces. Much better than steel wool.
I will order the hook and loop and try it with paste wax. Did you ever try it to wet apply finishing oil?
Thanks,
Mark

I intend to do just that with Velvit Oil...I think it will be quick and look fantastic.

Chris