Tapering legs - need some help

[Brian Thomas]

I'm working on a pair of night stands with tapered legs and could really use some help on cutting the tapers. I'm still very new at this - this is only my second project - but this seems like a basic operation that I should be able to do correctly. The night stand can be seen here: http://www.grizzly.com/products/H9609/images. The legs are 1.5" square with tapers on two sides. The tapers are supposed to begin 7 inches up from the bottom of the legs and finish so that the bottom of the legs are 1" square. I made a tapering jig for the table saw based on the one in Norm's first book.

I've laid out the taper on the leg, lined the cut line up with the miter slot, then positioned the fence so that the cut line is lined up with the saw blade. What's happening is where the saw blade enters the workpiece I'm getting a rounded cut instead of a straight line to start the taper. I'm not sure if this is clear so I've drawn an example of what I'm talking about. The darker freehand lines show the results I'm getting. This is a problem because the table aprons attach just above the tapers.

I'm using 8/4 cherry, which is some of the nicest wood I've ever worked with, it's such a shame to be wasting it. I've already ruined two legs. At this point I'm thinking of trying to cut the tapers on the bandsaw and using my sanding center to clean up the faces. Sure would be nice though to be able to do this on the tablesaw like most others seem to be able to do.

Thanks for any help/suggestions.

Brian

[Jason King]

I don't know if this is the best way to do it, but it's worked for me in the past when I've had the same problem. I think of the TS as a machine that roughs out a taper, and your block plane refines it. Depending on how bad the rounding over is you may have a lot of plane work to do, but I haven't found a table leg that couldn't be resurected by some creative planing.

Good luck to you

[Roy Wall]

Brian,

I used a band saw and made a jig. These photos should help to explain.

These tapers go from 1.5" square legs to a 3/4" square end.....the taper is no the inside of the legs.

Hope this helps....

[Bill Simmeth]

I like Roy's approach. There was also a thread a while back about a video our own Alan Turner did for FWW magazine. In it he presents a really neat jig to do tapers on the table saw. It is on their web site. Here's the thread...
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=45516

[Barry Beech]

I don't know that this would fix it or not, I guess it is more of a question for others, but I wonder if your blade should be higher. :confused:

[Tom Jones III]

For short tapers I've settled on using a block plane. Depending on the amount of wood to be removed I sometimes use a BS to hog off a lot of wood then use the block plane.

[Mike Heaney]

Brian,

sorry to hear this is giving you a headache. I can't talk to the table saw solution, but have used another approach that may work for you. I am pretty new to all this, and feeling my way through- so take this as an idea that I found pretty easy to do when I saw it explained. Rather than using the TS, I cut the tapers (2 sides) on an entrance table I am currently working on, using my jointer. I followed the instructions described in a couple of magazines recently. I can only lay my hands on one at the moment- Fine Woodworking Oct 2006 (issue 186), page 78/9. I ended up taking a smaller cut than they suggest and doing more passes, but that allowed me to sneak up on the line nicely. A few seconds touch up with a hand plane at the end saw the transition from straight to angled nicely finished off. Not a direct answer to your question, but an alternate route I found easy to set up and get to work pretty much first time.


best of luck, and let me know if you want more detail on the process I used

all the best

Mike

[Greg Deakins]

little as I know about these techniques, I'd likely take that same type of jig you had for the saw, or possibly the same jig itself, and try it on the router table with a straight bit. You might want to rough it out freehand on the band saw first.

[Gary Herrmann]

Cheap hinged tapering jig you can pick up at Rockler, bandsaw and a smooth plane. Thats how I did it last time. The post is here somewhere.

[Brian Thomas]

Thanks to all for the replies. I just joined FWW so I'll be checking out Alan Turner's video. They also seem to have several articles on the subject.

Mike Heaney - I saw at least one website explaining the jointer method, I'm going to look into that further - I really like the idea of being able to sneak up on the lay out line.

Barry Beech - I thought the same about the blade maybe needing to be higher. I raised it to full height to no avail - same problem.

Roy Wall - thanks for posting the pics - those are very helpful. I tried freehanding it on the bs and my skills aren't there yet. I need to use a jig if I'm going to taper that way.

Question on using the block plane - If I rough out the taper on the bs or jointer and then do some touch up witht he block plane I assume that I should be moving the plane down the incline formed by the roughed out taper and not up the incline - is that correct??

Many, many thanks - I'm feeling encouraged to get back in the shop now that I'm equipped with several potential solutions.

Brian

[John Michaels]

The tapers are supposed to begin 7 inches up from the bottom of the legs

Try making the taper 5 or 6 inches up instead. Then you can sand the roundover (make it less noticable) and not worry about being so close to the apron where it shows.

[Pete Brown]

Many, many thanks - I'm feeling encouraged to get back in the shop now that I'm equipped with several potential solutions.
Brian

Brian, I would add that you should practice on your scrap legs before trying it on the real piece.

Pete

[Roy Wall]

Question on using the block plane - If I rough out the taper on the bs or jointer and then do some touch up witht he block plane I assume that I should be moving the plane down the incline formed by the roughed out taper and not up the incline - is that correct??

Many, many thanks - I'm feeling encouraged to get back in the shop now that I'm equipped with several potential solutions.

Brian


Yes - a simple jig will keep you straight - its the most accurate way to cut a taper.

Brian - not necessarily...you need to plane WITH the grain. I used a smooth plane #4 after I cut these on the band saw. The band saw cut was about a 1/16" proud of the line....then smoothed to it using a plane.

To read the grain: look at the board from the side, see the grain going one way or another.... Imagine the grain is the hair of a cat (stay with me now:cool: ) - and you want to pet the cat (please..keep reading:) ).

You don't pet the cat against the grain.....so in the same way you should plane the wood. Go WITH the grain. Practice on a scrap board to learn to "read the grain".

YOu can do this - keep at it..its fun!

[Kyle Kraft]

I use a taper jig on the TS, then go to the jointer to make flat and true.

[Brian Thomas]

Here kitty, kitty. Roy - thanks for the chuckle and the encouragement - I needed both. I think I understand you. I want to read the grain when planing the same as when using a jointer - the way I've heard it described is you want to joint "downhill".

Thanks again all. I will definitely be practicing on some scrap pieces - especially now that I have made lots of them.

Brian

[Jason Beam]

I like all the alternatives presented, but I'm stuck on solving the problem. Since I'm at work, I can't look at the sketchup drawing until I get home.

But if I'm visualizing things right, it sounds like the start of your taper is not straight across, it's curved. Is this right? If that's the case, check your blade for square to the table AND the tapering jig (if it's more of a sled). If the blade's tilted much at all (we're talking seconds, not degrees in this case), that line will curve.

If I'm way off there, feel free to disregard. :)

[Brian Thomas]

Jason - that's right, the start of the taper is not straight across - it's curved. I initially wondered if blade alignment was part of the problem. I know the blade is square to the table, but I don't know if the blade is square to the jig face. It seems like any piece in the whole assembly that is even slightly out of square with the blade is going to introduce problems. By whole assembly I mean the fence, the face of the jig riding against the fence, the face of the jig holding the workpiece, the side of the workpiece against the jig and the side of the workpiece being cut. I know others use this techniques successfully, but for my still-limited skills I think this method allows too many opportunities for errors.

Brian

[Eric Wong]

I've done tapers several ways, and the way that seems to give me the best combination of control, speed, and accuracy is to cut them on the bandsaw, then finish with a smoothing plane.

By the way, I wouldn't think that the legs are ruined just because the top of the taper is a little rounded. You can fix that in a jiffy either with a hand plane or taking a pass over the jointer.

[Joe Chritz]

Mine were done on the jointer as well.

There is a short learning curve but it is really simple once you get the hang of it. I basically used a spacer under the work piece on the outfeed. Same spacer in the same relative spot with the same number of passes and they are all the same.

Nearly perfect tapers with a nice smooth surface.

Joe

[Brian Thomas]

Last night I made a quick jig for the bandsaw and made three practice legs out of my newly-made scrap legs. Things went much, much better. I cleaned up the cuts on my stationary belt sander. My results were much improved over my first attempts. I hope to cut tapers on some real legs tonight.

I'll post pictures of the nightstands if I deem the final results worthy. Thanks again for all the help. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.

Brian

[Greg Deakins]

I'm just curious, because my method got no references, about using a straight bit in a router after cutting it outside the line. Take off to within a sixteenth, and run it down the fence, just make a decent outside cut, not perfect. I'm wondering because this is how I true up an edge without a joiner, and it works great, what would be the problem with doing it for a taper?

[Pete Brown]

I'm just curious, because my method got no references, about using a straight bit in a router after cutting it outside the line. Take off to within a sixteenth, and run it down the fence, just make a decent outside cut, not perfect. I'm wondering because this is how I true up an edge without a joiner, and it works great, what would be the problem with doing it for a taper?

Greg, I think the main issue that could come up is thickness. If the legs are 2" thick, that is a huge bit. Also, I think you'd still need to make a proper sled, as running a taper down the fence won't work well unless your rough cut is also perfect.

Otherwise, I think it's a good idea, but I also think there are easier ways, if equipment permits.

Pete