questions on Grizzly G0633 12" joiner/planer

[Jeffrey Iwasaki]

Does anyone have any experience or have any info on this new Grizzly G0633? Is it built by Grizzly? It does seem very similar to some european combos. Does anyone have any experience using a combination J/P? I was debating getting this one versus the Hammer. The Grizzly shipped would be around $1950.

Linky. (http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0633)

I know it's new but I wanted to run it by you experts before getting one.

Thanks.

[Jim Becker]

As far as I know, it's not shipping yet, so there really will not be any experience. There is at least one previous thread here at SMC discussing this tool. The handy Advanced Search feature will get you there!

[Steve Milito]

They didn't even have one in the PA showroom this weekend.

[Cary Swoveland]

Did you know the Minimax FS30 j/p is on sale now, for $3,795, $800 off the regular price?

http://www.minimax-usa.com/

Cary

[Frank Martin]

Jim is correct that these are not yet available for shipment. Mine is on backorder, and I am not sure when exactly it is going to ship.

I have been considering the Hammer and MM units then I saw information about the new Grizzly unit. I have neither used or seen in person any Grizzly machine. Unfortunately I have less time than money for woodworking, therefore I expect my machines/tools to deliver everytime without fuss. Naturally, I was gravitating to the European machines. But, I really liked some of the features on the Grizzly such as the center mounted fence and the carbide cutter head. I was still skeptical about the overall build quality and manufacturing tolerances of the Grizzly machine compared to the European ones.

I contacted the president of Grizzly, Shiraz, who also posts here. He was very helpful and responsive to my questions. Based on the information he provided I felt comfortable ordering one. I went with the spiral carbide cutter head (Model G0634).

Some of the things Shiraz mentioned that helped overcome my skepticisim were:
- This machine is in the high end line of Grizzly machines (e.g., the ultimate series), for which I have only seen positive references

- Precision machining and making sure the jointer tables return coplanar were top priority during manufacturing

- Low cost does not really mean cheap machine in this case, it is more related to where it is made (I beleive Taiwan)

- Honestly, I also felt comfortable that I got the information from the president of Grizzly himself, and given the track record of Grizzly customer service I am expecting that any issues that may arise will be resolved to my satisfaction

This will be my first Grizzly machine and I am hoping it also becomes a very satisfying experience.

I will follow up when I receive the machine and post my experience here.

[Eddie Darby]

Mini Max got some top marks from FWW's latest issue, but no Grizzly was in the test. MM has a Tersa head which is nice, and probably one of the the reasons for the extra $$$.

[Curt Harms]

I got the following email notice. They're having some sort of demo clearance with the machines in Connecticut. If anyone is interested, P.M. me and I'll provide the details I have. I have no interest in this offer except I wish I had the cash and ability to get one into my basement:rolleyes:

MSP310M = $2,200+s/h The jointer tables are fairly short on this one.

MSP315 = $2,790+s/h This one looks interesting. I did get a chance to look at Rojek at an industrial woodworking show. These are industrial quality machines made I think in the Czech Republic.

Curt

[Pete Brown]

An archive search did not give me a satisfactory answer to this one.

One question I have about the euro-style combo machines is the table length. Common "wisdom" among tool manufacturers and users for US-style jointers is that the longer the table, the longer the board you can joint.

From my own experience this appears true. I have a smaller 6" jointer and I find myself unable to adequately straighten boards much longer than the table. Luckily, I don't do that very often.

My question is really this: Is there a trick to flattening long boards on a jointer like this, or do you plan your projects so that you either flatten the boards manually or avoid having long pieces?

I too am tempted by this Grizzly, although what I really want is a 14" or 16" inch one :P

Thanks.

Pete

[Kevin Murdock]

My question is really this: Is there a trick to flattening long boards on a jointer like this, or do you plan your projects so that you either flatten the boards manually or avoid having long pieces?



Or asked another way... "With a 60 inch jointer bed length what is the longest board that you can expect to reasonably handle?"

I did a search and didn't find the answer either.

[John Schreiber]

I'm trying to get a picture of how the euro-style planer/joiners work. Is there a video or animation of the transition from planer to joiner and back somewhere out on the web?

[Ted Miller]

That would be my only concern is table size, hp to but size really does matter...

[Curt Harms]

Or asked another way... "With a 60 inch jointer bed length what is the longest board that you can expect to reasonably handle?"

I did a search and didn't find the answer either.

I've heard that flattening boards twice the length of the bed is practical. e.g. 48" bed 8' boards, 60" table 10' boards. I cut my rough stock to length before face jointing so bed length is not that limiting, I don't do projects that use finshed boards over 8 or 10 feet long. If the rough stock has significant problems, face jointing smaller stock results in less material being removed from the one face.

Curt

[Steve Milito]

I've heard that flattening boards twice the length of the bed is practical. e.g. 48" bed 8' boards, 60" table 10' boards. I cut my rough stock to length before face jointing so bed length is not that limiting, I don't do projects that use finshed boards over 8 or 10 feet long. If the rough stock has significant problems, face jointing smaller stock results in less material being removed from the one face.

Curt

I've always been confused by that. To me it seems that once 1/2 of the board is hanging in air that it would be very difficult to keep things true. So I would think that twice the length of the outfeed bed would be the practical limit for board length. Yet, I'm a novice, and likely wrong.

[Curt Harms]

I've always been confused by that. To me it seems that once 1/2 of the board is hanging in air that it would be very difficult to keep things true. So I would think that twice the length of the outfeed bed would be the practical limit for board length. Yet, I'm a novice, and likely wrong.

I've never had the need to face joint stock longer than about 4 feet so far, so I can't really comment. The thickness of the stock would enter into it as well. It's easier to keep adequate pressure on 4/4 stock sticking beyond the outfeed table than it would be to keep adequate pressure on 16/4 stock. If I needed to face joint really long stock, I'd set up an outfeed roller as level as possible beyond the jointer bed and keep good pressure on the outfeed table. Perhaps others who have done this can comment.

Curt

[Frank Martin]

I don't know if twice the bed length is really the rule of thumb, but given my experience I have successfully face jointed boards up to 1.8 times the jointer bed length. Translating this to 60" jointer bed of the Grizzly unit, I should expect to face joint at least 9 ft boards, which is way more than I ever plan to do. :)



I've never had the need to face joint stock longer than about 4 feet so far, so I can't really comment. The thickness of the stock would enter into it as well. It's easier to keep adequate pressure on 4/4 stock sticking beyond the outfeed table than it would be to keep adequate pressure on 16/4 stock. If I needed to face joint really long stock, I'd set up an outfeed roller as level as possible beyond the jointer bed and keep good pressure on the outfeed table. Perhaps others who have done this can comment.

Curt

[Mike Wilkins]

Not sure why there has been no mention of a 12" j/p from Andreou Machinery, which is a knock-off of the Laguna 12" machine. From the looks of this machine, it appears to be the same machine as the 315 from Rojek, with a different paint job. The jointer tables tilt to the front, similar to both the Laguna and Rojek machines.
I have had one the Andreou machines for about 3 yrs. now, and have been pleased with it. While it is no Felder or MM, it does the job. Tables are 60" in length, Euro-style guard, and center mounted fence. For a review of this machines' features, just read FWW review of the Rojek machine.
I got mine to replace a Jet 6" jointer and Parks 12" planer, with space-saving and jointer width as the ultimate reasons. Check their website for info.
Cost is around $2800 plus shipping from NJ.

[Todd Solomon]

Make sure you read the Fine Woodworking 12" jointer-planer review, in their latest magazine. I thought it was an accurate assessment. I also would agree with their conclusions:
Mini Max FS30 is the best overall, at $3.8K.
Hammer 12" is the best value, and nearly as good as the MM, at $3K.
I used to own a Mini Max 14" J-P, a great machine. I've used the Hammer 12" at a friend's house, also a terrific machine.

I don't personally see a lot of incentive to go with the Rojek, because it's price is so close to the Hammer's sale price, and was not rated as highly.

The Grizzly looks intriguing because of it's price point. Just realize that you're taking a chance on an untested, new design. If you have the extra funds, I would go with the Hammer or MM.

Todd

[David Stonner]

I was at the Grizzly store in Springfield, MO last week and the sales guys said they will get a display model in stock in April, and start selling in May. No one has any experience with them yet. They are all still in Asia. I too am curious to see how they perform.

dave

[Dave Avery]

I'm trying to get a picture of how the euro-style planer/joiners work. Is there a video or animation of the transition from planer to joiner and back somewhere out on the web?

John,

If I remember correctly, the Fine Woodworking web site has a video of what you're looking for. Best. Dave.

[Cary Swoveland]

In case you can't find a video, I can give you a quick run-through. My experience is with a Minimax CU300 Smart, which has a 12" joiner and planer, as well as sliding table saw, shaper and mortiser. I think many of the combo jointer-planers work work like the Minimax.

Let's say you're jointing. The dust collection hose will be attached to the dust collection outlet under the jointer's outfeed table. Suppose you now want to switch to planing. You would follow these steps.

1. Remove the jointer fence.

2. Facing the machine on the business-side (with the jointer outfeed table on your left and the infeed table on your right), unlock the hinged jointer infeed table and tilt it back (with attached cutter guard) away from you as far as it will go, forming an angle with its previous position of about 120 degrees.

3. Unlock the hinged jointer outfeed table and tilt back as far as it will go, again, about 120 degrees.

4. Remove the dust collection hose, rotate the dust collection outlet assembly clockwise, over the top of the cutterhead, secure it in place and reattach the dust collection hose. Repositioning has three purposes: 1) it moves the dust pickup to the correct location for the planer operation; 2) it clears a path under the cutterhead for boards to be planed; and 3) it provies a guard over the top of the cutterhead. (You may be able to flip the dust collection outlet without removing and reattaching the dust collection hose.)

5. Position the movable table under the cutterhead for planing, turn on the motor and engage the clutch drive (if it has one).

Switching from planer to jointer it is pretty much the reverse operation:

1. Disengage the planer clutch drive (if it has one).

2. Lower the planer table to make room for the dust outlet assembly.

3. Remove the dust collection hose, unsecure the dust collection outlet, flip the latter counterclockwise and reattach the dust hose.

4. Lower and lock the jointer outfeed table.

5. Lower and lock the jointer infeed table.

6. Replace the jointer fence.

Note that in step 1 you may have to lower the planer table quite a bit to provide enough room for the dust outlet assembly.

Clear as mud?

Cary

[John Schreiber]

Thank you Cary, that does indeed make it clear.

Having read through that and watched the video which Dave suggested Video (http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuideArticle.aspx?id=28316) it is pretty straight forward.

I wonder if anyone has made an adapter so that you could use your drill to do the raising and lowering of the planer table.

[Darroll Walsh]

Thanks vor the video link.

I think I now have a new toy to add to the wish list.

[Cary Swoveland]

I wonder if anyone has made an adapter so that you could use your drill to do the raising and lowering of the planer table.

I think many of us have done that. How you do it depends on the machine, of course. Often the shaft diameter is greater than the drill chuck size, so you need to step it down some way. I turned a block of wood to about 2" diameter, 3" long. On one end I drilled a hole for the shaft, cut an "X" and used a band clamp to attach the cylinder to the shaft. The shaft had a pin through it, to keep the slide-off handle from rotating around the shaft. I chiselled a notch for the pin. On the other end of the cylinder I epoxied a 3/8" or so rod, for attaching a drill. I'm sure metalworkers could come up with a more elegant solution, but the wood cylinder works fine.

Cary

[Paul Johnstone]

Or asked another way... "With a 60 inch jointer bed length what is the longest board that you can expect to reasonably handle?"

I did a search and didn't find the answer either.

I will try to tell you based on my experience. I believe my 6" jointer had a bed length of 46".. it was the Jet 6", and that's what Amazon says the length is now.

You can do longer boards with 4/4 boards. With 8/4, you have more weight hanging off and the extra weight is a killer.

The most I attempted was a 6' board that was maybe 4" wide. But that was a real struggle. So much so that I never tried it again. 4' was about the limit, and that wasn't exactly comfortable.

I know some people rig outfeed tables, but for me, that was impossible.
I have seen where people have bolted extensions on to the jointer. That would probably work, since you could adjust everything perfect.

I agree that the max length you can join is probably twice the length of whatever bed is shorter, although I guess the outfeed table is usually shorter when they aren't the same length. Note that at that limit, it's not going to be comfortable pushing that last 6 inches through.

Also, I think it's easier to edge join longer pieces than it is to face join longer pieces.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Jeff,
I've been waiting to hear the consensus on the new Grizzly combo too. I have a small shop and am currently using a portable planer and 6" jointer. I'm in no hurry because I've been using these machines for almost 20 years.

Upgrading to individual machines like a stationary 15" planer and an 8" jointer will be daunting task in both getting the machines into my basement shop and arranging them such that I can still move around. But I think shop space is the deal killer.

I checked out the Hammer A31 12" jointer/planer at a local woodworking show about 1 year ago. I was not all that impressed with the Hammer considering the cost of the machine being over $3,000. My biggest turn-off was the wobble in the extruded aluminum fence which was end mounted.

If I had the room, I would definitely go with separate machines. I like the idea of being able to go from one machine to the next with minimal machine setup. But a combo may be a nice compromise on shop space and allow me to have heavier duty equipment.

cheers, Jeff :)

[John D. Thompson]

I've never had the need to face joint stock longer than about 4 feet so far, so I can't really comment. The thickness of the stock would enter into it as well. It's easier to keep adequate pressure on 4/4 stock sticking beyond the outfeed table than it would be to keep adequate pressure on 16/4 stock. If I needed to face joint really long stock, I'd set up an outfeed roller as level as possible beyond the jointer bed and keep good pressure on the outfeed table. Perhaps others who have done this can comment.

Curt

Hi Curt,
My experience also has been that edge jointing long stock is easier than face jointing. The problem with thinner pieces is that, as they start to hang off the table, they deflect and, so, distort the cut. There's probably an 'optimum thickness' of workpiece that will both resist this tendency and not be too heavy to safely manage. I run an old 8" Powermatic that is 65" overall and, while I have been known to edge and face stock up to 10 feet in length, it requires a Zen-like concentration and I am never really quite comfortable with the process.On my 65" jointer I would place the practical limit at about 100".

The only thing I would add is that, if I were to use roller supports, I would use ball-type rollers or just a melamine or laminate outfeed table (my true preference here). My problem with axle-mounted rollers is that they will pull the work off track if they are not perfectly aligned and that could be very disconcerting when handling a large/heavy workpiece.

I am very new here but, I love this place.

Thanks Fellas! JT

[Trevor Walsh]

I have a Hammer A3-31 at work, the fence does "wobble" because it's fixed at one end of you are pressing hard against it. After running a few hundred board feet of wood through it, even with that wobble all of the edges are square to the faces referenced, that flex doesn't impact the accuracy of the cut at all. The A3 is a joy, and when I have my own house I'm strongly considering the Hammer with a spiral cutterhead.