Custom Dust Collection Pipe Hangers

[Keith Weber]

I've had my Dust Gorilla for WAY too long now, but I've been neglecting putting up the 6" piping because I've had other projects consuming my time.

Yesterday, I decided to tackle the problem of hanging the pipe on the walls. Sure, I could have just used tie wraps or metal strapping, but that would have been too easy. Instead, I decided to design and build my own hangers out of steel.

I made them out of 1/4" x 1" flat steel. I made the rings on a hand-operated ring roller. I used my Miller Dynasty TIG welder for the welds. The design allows for a 7" hose clamp to fit around the ring and 6" S&D pipe that I'll be using. I made the rings 1/4" big in diameter to accommodate some adhesive-backed weather stripping on the inside of the ring to dampen any vibration.

The reason that the vertical hangers have more ring on the bottom is two-fold. It allows me to put up the horizontal pipe during assembly without needing to put the hose-clamps on right away. It also allows me to drive the screw in the top.

The symmetrical hangers are to be horizontal to steady the vertical drops. I think that I'll need about 4 more hangers, but I ran out of steel, so they'll have to wait for my next set of days off.

Although, I'm kind of liking the shiney steel look right now, I think that I'm going to get them powder-coated white to match the trim in my shop.

I'm just hoping that the pics show up. They're not showing in the Preview Post.

Keith

[Eric Brenneman]

Sweeeeeeeeet!!!!!

[Pete Brown]

Man, keep this up and I might have to pick up yet another hobby :)

Seriously, those look great, and should keep the rattles down in that ductwork

Pete

[Jim Becker]

Well...that's another interesting way to do it! Nice work, Keith.

[Al Killian]

Keith, Those are not going to work, so send them to me for disposal.:D (j/k) They look great. I dont have the power to run my old arc welder,so welding is out of it for now.

[Keith Weber]

Thanks for the compliments! A question for down the road... How do you attach a 6" to 4" S&D reducer to a 4" flex hose? The flex hose almost fits inside the reducer...almost!

Keith

[Tim Malyszko]

Very cool. I always appreciate good metalworking. If you were looking to sell, I'm sure you could find quite a few people willing to purchase some from you.

I'd be proud to show those off without any powder coating.

[Joe Jensen]

Keith, I'm now embarassed with my hangers. I used super heavy duty zip ties and zip tie hangers. I used to do a ton of stick welding and way back in HS I was very good with gas welding and a rod. How hard is it to learn TIG? I'm drawn the beautiful welds you can make...joe

[Rob Will]

Thanks for the compliments! A question for down the road... How do you attach a 6" to 4" S&D reducer to a 4" flex hose? The flex hose almost fits inside the reducer...almost!

Keith

Looks good Keith,
On the hose, I'm wondering about chucking the 6 x 4 adapter in a lathe and enlarging the opening. Another method might be to wrap the 4" end of the adapter with a 4" wide collar of metal (possibly stainless). That makes the end large enough for the hose.

I think Woodcraft sells a fitting that makes this connection.

Rob

[Eric Wong]

Cool!
I wish I had some metalworking skills...

[Jeff Miller]

Looks good Keith,
On the hose, I'm wondering about chucking the 6 x 4 adapter in a lathe and enlarging the opening. Another method might be to wrap the 4" end of the adapter with a 4" wide collar of metal (possibly stainless). That makes the end large enough for the hose.

I think Woodcraft sells a fitting that makes this connection.

Rob



Spray a small amount of pure silicone inside pvc fitting, use a screwdriver and push on the wire part of the flexible hose and work it in as far as a piece pipe would go in. Worked fine for me.:cool:

[Carroll Courtney]

YOU! Have way to much time on your hands(LOL):D Those custom hangers are Looking Good!

[Keith Outten]

Keith W,

A 4" hose will fit the OD of a 3" pipe fitting. You could get a 6" by 3" reducer and the hose shoud fit over the end of the 3" fitting.

.

[Jeff Miller]

Keith W,

A 4" hose will fit the OD of a 3" pipe fitting. You could get a 6" by 3" reducer and the hose shoud fit over the end of the 3" fitting.

.

Wouldn't that be cutting the flow back too much;)

[Keith Weber]

How hard is it to learn TIG? I'm drawn the beautiful welds you can make...joe

Joe, I learned to TIG in a very unconventional way -- I taught myself. I just bought a TIG welder and read a lot. I think that TIG welding is one of those things that you either find easy to pick up, or you find it downright impossible. I was fortunate in that I picked it up quite quickly. I'm only on my third Argon tank right now. I think that it's probably a lot easier to take a course. I just couldn't find one near me at the time that I wanted to learn. The welding forums are a great source of help and info, too.

There's a lot going on at the same time when TIG welding. Your right hand controls the torch, your left hand feeds the rod, and your foot controls the amperage. Once you get used to it, TIG can produce some very pretty welds, which is why I went with TIG. On the downside, it's relatively slow, and it is absolutely critical that the metal is clean and shiney. Any contamination whatsoever, and it will be nearly impossible to weld.

Having skill with oxy-acetylene brazing will definitely help in learning TIG. I haven't tried aluminum yet. Apparently it requires a whole new level of skill.

I took up metalworking to supplement my woodworking by building some metal stuff for around the shop, but it's really growing into a second hobby.

Keith

[Joe Jensen]

Keith, what's it cost to get into TIG? I assume around $2K?

[David Wambolt]

Yes! Another forum member with a TIG welder and a Dynasty no less. I have a Miller Dynasty 300DX Tigrunner, Miller Millermatic 350P MIG and a Miller Passport MIG. Nice work on the brackets.

Metal working is fun if you've got the tools and equipment.

Getting into TIG is not cheap. There is a lot more to it than just grasping a torch. You need to know the differences between a transformer and inverter based machine and the benefits both types offer. You then need to have an assortment of tungstens, fillers, cleaners, dedicated diamond wheel for sharpening tungstens, know how to sharpen them, Argon or Helium shielding gas, helmet, welding jacket (don't want all that UV on you for long), and a whole lot of patience. For example the TIGRunner I have is about $6500 new. That's just the machine, cooler, torch, pedal, and regulator. Plan on using LOTS of argon. :)

If you don't weld and want to weld straight away... I would not recommend a TIG. If you want to work with stainless or aluminum, then TIG is really the answer. I prefer to MIG weld most parts as it's a lot faster, and I'm still perfecting my TIG welds. Once my shop is done I'll be so very glad I can set up my welding equipment again and get to fabricating.

[Jim O'Dell]

Keith, how many have pm'd you for prices on the hangers??:D I bet you could fund a good part of your ducting making those, if you were so inclined. Really nice! Jim

[Matt Meiser]

Very cool!

[Keith Weber]

Keith, what's it cost to get into TIG? I assume around $2K?

Joe,

Unfortunately, it's not that cheap to get into. My machine (Miller Dynasty 200DX) with the torch kit was about $4000. With all my nice woodworking tools, the welder is my most expensive toy...er...I mean tool! As David mentioned, that's just the tip of the iceberg. As a minimum to even get started, you'll need filler rods, tungstens, a good-quality helmet, gloves, a metal bandsaw, a couple of angle grinders, and a grinder with one wheel dedicated only to grinding tungstens (because using it for steel will contaminate the wheel.) A high quality Cobalt drill bit set and a 3-way vise for the drill press can't hurt, either. I was surprised, as David mentioned, how fast you go through Argon. I quickly realized a second 120 cu. ft. tank was a required companion to my 80 cu. ft. original purchace.

I probably was into it for $6000 before I finished my first project. There are cheaper machines than the Miller, but as with most things, the cheaper you go, the more limitations the machine will have. My basement is my woodshop, my garage has become my metalshop. Grinding sparks and sawdust don't go well together!

Unless someone really wanted the versitility or challenge of learning TIG, I would recommend a MIG welder to most beginning hobbyists as well. Most of the welding that you see on stuff you buy is done with MIG because it's fast and does a decent job. TIG welding is usually used in precision applications, such as in aircraft construction, or specialty metals, such as Aluminum or Titanium. Its telltale signatue is the "row of nickels" look to the weld.

But, if you're like me and love nice things and a challenge, then by all means give TIG a shot. On the welding forums, I've seen pics posted by 20-year professional welding veterans that took up TIG about 6 months ago and their welds may as well have been done with a stick welder. Not everyone can do it, so I'd recommend finding someone to let you take a crack at it before investing a lot of money in something that might end up frustrating the heck out of you.

Keith

[Joe Jensen]

Joe,

But, if you're like me and love nice things and a challenge, then by all means give TIG a shot. On the welding forums, I've seen pics posted by 20-year professional welding veterans that took up TIG about 6 months ago and their welds may as well have been done with a stick welder. Not everyone can do it, so I'd recommend finding someone to let you take a crack at it before investing a lot of money in something that might end up frustrating the heck out of you.

Keith

This is one of those things I'll do someday when I have more shop space. My 3 car garage is packed to the gills with wood and wood tools today. When I weld I have to do it outside on the driveway well away from the wood. I won a national Lincoln welding contest in 1979, but then that was a LONG time ago. Back then I worked a summer job welding 8-15" diameter thin wall pipe with a stick welder. Did that 100 feet above the ground. Made for an exciting summer. My favorite welding was using a gas torch with just a steel rod which I think would be similar to the TIG, but I didn't have to use a foot pedal.

I think my best start would be to try a TIG welding class at a local community college...joe

[David G Baker]

One of my first jobs was a polisher/grinder of stainless steel tanks and pipe fittings for Food Machinery Corp. 98% of the welds were TIG and they were beautiful. They were so tiny and clean. I have always wanted to give TIG a try but I had a career switch before I had the opportunity. I have a MIG unit that will do a fair job of welding material the size of the hangers but would much rather have TIG.
Those hangers are some of the finest items I have seen coming from a home shop. Great work.
I have a question, anyone know how Titanium is welded? I ran a TV news motion picture lab and needed some fittings fastened to a Titanium rack that I had. I called every shop in the phone book in San Francisco and the only place that did the work was at the San Francisco Airport. They wouldn't do the work so I had to use plastic.
David B

[Bill White]

Just don't see how those can POSSIBLY be strong enough. Maybe need to double up.
NOT!
Bill

[wayne ateser]

seems like a lot of unnecessary trouble and cost to replace a metal strap and a couple of nails

[Mike Seals]

seems like a lot of unnecessary trouble and cost to replace a metal strap and a couple of nails

Some things are done just because we can. When I hung my dust system, I was in such a hurry to get it going, I "bought" hangers. For me to buy something that I can make myself is way out of character. Those hangers are some nice work, good design.

I too have a ton of metal working tools along with wood working and various others, I've been buying and collecting tools for 30 something years. Why? so I can do as he did, build the things I want to.

I don't build things because I have too, I build them because I want to.

[Matt Meiser]

seems like a lot of unnecessary trouble and cost to replace a metal strap and a couple of nails

Unless you enjoy making them. And it sounds like he did. The same could be said of any piece of furniture.

[Keith Weber]

What Matt and Mike said!

Keith

[Mike Elo]

How heavy is this duct work? I see Waynes point on this one. Over designing doesn't make it better. But if he enjoyed making them, more power to him.

[wayne ateser]

How heavy is this duct work? I see Waynes point on this one. Over designing doesn't make it better. But if he enjoyed making them, more power to him.
Sometimes its the journey, but Id rather travel down the road of beautiful functional furniture then pipe hangers.

[Keith Weber]

Some people have hobbies. Mine is building stuff. I enjoy doing it. That is why I built the hangers that way. Yes, I could have bought some strapping and nails, but I didn't.

I checked over some of Wayne's previous posts. It appears that his hobby is spreading his bitterness on the Internet. I quote, from some of his recent posts...

"LOL big whoop.......LOL"
"that stand puts the TV much too high for comfortable viewing."
"sorry....but the stair rail dont look safe to use"

IMHO, wasting my time being unecessarily bitter to others = 0. Sorry that I offended somebody by improperly mismanaging my spare time. Please attach a list of what is "necessary" so that I do not make that mistake again.

Keith

[Joe Jensen]

Some people have hobbies. Mine is building stuff. I enjoy doing it. That is why I built the hangers that way. Yes, I could have bought some strapping and nails, but I didn't.

I checked over some of Wayne's previous posts. It appears that his hobby is spreading his bitterness on the Internet. I quote, from some of his recent posts...

"LOL big whoop.......LOL"
"that stand puts the TV much too high for comfortable viewing."
"sorry....but the stair rail dont look safe to use"

IMHO, wasting my time being unecessarily bitter to others = 0. Sorry that I offended somebody by improperly mismanaging my spare time. Please attach a list of what is "necessary" so that I do not make that mistake again.

Keith

Keith, here's my list;
1) do what's fun as this is supposed to be a fun hobby

[Pete Brown]

Sometimes its the journey, but Id rather travel down the road of beautiful functional furniture then pipe hangers.

For you that works. For other folks, building tools and doing other things are part of their list of hobbies.

I personally hate spending time building jigs. However, there are tons of books and several articles a month on that very topic. I put down thw work of others who like to build them, though.

To quote someone on my model railroading lists (another of my hobbies) "If you're having fun, you must be doing something right." I hope your comments don't discourage Keith or others from posting their work in the future.

Pete

[Frank Chaffee]

I want to not waste my time building unecessary things and focus on the important and benefical things. benefit of gold plated duct hangers vs metal strapping and 2 nails = 0.

Some people have hobbies. Mine is building stuff. I enjoy doing it. That is why I built the hangers that way. Yes, I could have bought some strapping and nails, but I didn't……..Keith
Keith, I admire those clamps… nice work, even if you powder coat them white and don’t gold plate them, they look like they will be a nice component in your beautiful shop.

I used to weld a lot… mild steel, stainless steel, and aluminum. The stainless welding I did was MIG for pressure vessels. I took a course at a community college to learn TIG stainless… and I could not get the hang of it!!! Glad to see someone who does post here!

Wayne, is not the joy one experiences in creating an environment important? Do you mow the lawn, pick up fallen branches near your house, comb your hair or otherwise tend to your appearance? Have you any values that another might consider frivolous and not productive of the forms they feel are functional? I too, make judgments about other’s use of resources, but I differentiate between those that I see as purely self indulgent (i.e. driving SUV to quickie stop to buy lotto ticket release from reality), and those activities where one is exploring one’s ability to create objects useful in one’s life.

Perhaps, Wayne, if you would take the time to elaborate upon your philosophy, we would be better able to hear your voice as coming from somewhere other than under the bridge, and benefit from your wisdom.

[Glen Blanchard]

I checked over some of Wayne's previous posts. It appears that his hobby is spreading his bitterness on the Internet.

Right on the money Keith. I just finished doing the same persuing prior to seeing your post here..........and I arrived at the same conclusion.

[Frank Chaffee]

Wayne Asteser has been politely asked on more than one thread to elaborate on his views, yet he remains entrenched in his position of brief slights against posters. I suggest that he be removed from the membership of SMC because he is a troll.

[Mike Seals]

I want to not waste my time building unecessary things and focus on the important and benefical things. benefit of gold plated duct hangers vs metal strapping and 2 nails = 0.

Not to continue an on going debate, but that is where I, like many others here differ from you. My journey is not based on what I can have, or the time it takes to get there, but the feeling of self accomplishment.

I used to build street rods for many years, I had more enjoyment hunting down the parts than I did in the completed project, the thrill of the hunt. It's the same with building things, it's not so much the end product as it is the learning of the build and learning of the skills to get it completed.

The desire to build things has nothing to do with time and money, it's creative. It's what we want to do, not what we have to do. If you are looking at it from the stand point of time and effort, then you are in the wrong hobbie and you'll never achieve what we have and we can never explain to you what it is we are striving for, you'll never understand.

That is why we come here, most of the people here know and understand what it is inside us that makes us want to do things such as build elaborate duct work braces.

I have lots of freinds that come by the shop, most just to see what it is that I'm up too for the day. I call them friends because they know who I am and respect what ever I'm doing. That respect is a two way street, learn it and you'll be a much happier person.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Wayne's self-professed gee-netic superiority (SawStop post) apparently didn't extend to his grammar and spelling.

I question whether he makes any "journey" other than that to his keyboard to troll SMC.

Congrats Wayne, I think you are the only troll I've ever noticed here at SMC.

JH

[Keith Outten]

Keith W,

In a former life I was a power plant piping inspector, both nukes and fossil. I have seen my share of tig welding, got my AWS CWI and ASNT Level III Visual, Radiography Level II, MT Level II, PT Level II, UT Level II, etc. I own an old Miller stick welder and a small Hobart mig machine and really enjoy designing/welding my own projects.

I like your design and the quality of your metal fabricating work, keep em coming :)

Thanks,
Keith O

.

[Jude Tuliszewski]

Nice work on the supports. I welded on jet engine parts, cobalt based alloy, nickel, inconell, and some stainless. I have not picked up a torch in a while but do have a Miller Maxstar 152 Tig with Snap Start, but no bottle, on the list of things to do. When I trained I would show off… I mean demonstrate technique by butting up the sharp edge of two razor blades (case cutter type) and weld them together, with no blow out (holes).
Woodworking took over, but I would like to get the welders (I also have an arc welder) set back up. It is very handy having welding capability.
I think woodworking and certain metalworking compliment each other well.

[Keith Outten]

Wouldn't that be cutting the flow back too much;)

Jeff,

Your right, I missed the mark on this one since the 3" isn't in the plan :)

Joe,

What tool are you using for bending the strap?

.

[Keith Weber]

Joe,

What tool are you using for bending the strap?

.

Keith O.,

If that question was meant for me, I used what is called a ring roller. I ordered it on eBay for about $150 including the shipping. It bends the metal by squeezing it between 3 rollers.

Keith W.

[Keith Outten]

Keith W.

Thats the rig I have been looking for, I own several scroll benders and a parts bender. One will roll flat bar but it leaves knurl marks on the strap and is limited to small size strap. My parts bender won't roll large diameters without a form.

What is the capacity of the roller and how can i find it?

I think I found it...$89.99 and will roll 3/8" thick by 2" wide flat bar. Made by Proline Parts. The shipping price is brutal :(

Thanks,
Keith O.

[Ralph Barhorst]

[quote=I have a question, anyone know how Titanium is welded? [/quote]

Titanium is welded with the TIG process. However, I know why no one wanted to weld it for you. Titanium must be welded in a chamber filled with Argon. The chamber has sealed glove holes so that you can get your hands in it and do the weld. Titanium will weaken if it comes in contact with oxygen when it is near the melting point.

[Keith Weber]

Keith O.

That's the one! Same seller! The shipping is huge, but I found that overall, the total price with shipping was less than I could have found one locally. It's not the best-built tool in my collection. Typical Made-in-China quality, but it does what it is supposed to. There is a company called Shop Outfitters that makes a better-built, but similar unit in America, but the price is in excess of $700. For the few times that I'd need it, the Chinese version offers good bang for the buck. I couldn't justify the $700+ myself. The jack came loose in the box and got damaged in shipping, but it still functioned. The seller and I agreed to a $20 credit for the damage.

The specs listed said that the minimum diameter was 8". I needed less than that for my hangers, but the roller was the closest that I could find to handle the job. I planned on manufacturing new side plates to bring the bottom two rollers closer together, but it turned out that I didn't need to. Maybe the minimum diameter would be 8" with a 2" x 3/8" flat bar, but with the 1" x 1/4", it easily rolled to a much less diameter. It rolled to 6" without hitting the limit on the jack. I actually had to pull a couple of the rings apart to get the diameter that I was looking for.

It rolled the 1" x 1/4" stock like it was nothing. I haven't tried anything bigger.

Keith W.

[Keith Weber]

Regarding the Titanium welding:

I used to work for a company that rebuilt jet engines. The blades were made of titanium. The welders didn't use a chamber. The TIG process uses an Argon shield from the torch itself, so Oxygen is kept away from the weld. I suspect that the reason that it was hard to find someone willing to weld Titanium was nothing other than the fact that it was an unknown entity to the average weld shop. It welds like the other metals, but you need titanium filler rods. The average welding shop probably doesn't carry those. The tungstens might be slightly different as well, but the weld process should be the same.

Keith w.

[Ken Milhinch]

A few of you have given Wayne a serve for his responses, and he does seem to be the owner of the contrary view on most occasions, and yes, he expresses it in a fairly abrupt manner, but I must confess I don't think he is entirely wrong on this one.

The hangers are beautifully made, and probably hugely over-engineered, but I have been guilty of that so often I have lost count. I also like to make things rather than buy them if I can, so no problems there.
What actually made me laugh out loud when I read the original post was the statement that Keith "may get them powder coated to match the trim in his shop". My wife asked what I was laughing at, and I invited her to read the post. Her response was along the lines of - "Is it a workshop or a hairdressing salon ?"

No offence Keith, but "matching the trim in the shop" has had me chuckling for hours. Anyway, good work, they look very nice.

[Keith Weber]

Ken,

My comment on powder-coating to match the trim probably sounds worse than it was intended. I want to put something on them so that they don't rust. The powder-coating was not so much that I wanted them powder-coated, but rather an easy solution to the problem that I hate painting stuff. If it was summer, I could just paint them in the driveway, but I've got a foot of snow in my drive. By dropping them off at a powder-coating place, I can just let someone else worry about taking care of the task that I don't like and get onto doing what I like doing -- building stuff. As far as matching the trim, well...why not? They've got to be some color, right? Here's a pic of a corner of my shop. Not really what I'd call a hairdressing salon, but it is tending toward rec-room class. :-)

Happy Woodworking!

Keith

[Jim Dunn]

Keith that's not a shop that's a display area for tools, right??:) Really that's as neat a work area as I've seen since my days of working on a jig bore in an climate controlled room.

[Matt Meiser]

That roller is pretty cool. My dad has the HF ring roller which is good for very small stock, but it would be nice to have something for heavy stock.

[David Wambolt]

I have the same exact roller. Besides flat stock, you can do 16GA square tubing. I've tried up to 1-1/4" with good results. You can create longer radius bends for gates, tables, etc. The roller does leave some knurled marks in the steel, but you can clean those up with a flap disc or DA sander. It does not crush the tubing.

Here's a pic of a piece of I believe 1" 16GA tubing I rolled. The more pressure, the tighter the radius. The guys on the fourm didn't believe me, so I grabbed a junk piece of square tubing and went to town. I'd love to have a true roll bender, but for smaller work, this will get the job done.

http://www.dmwtech.com/gallery2/v/welding/machines/roller/

[Eric Wong]

Keith, how do you recommend that someone (me) who has never welded get started? I have an old 240V Mongomery ward stick welder that I bought from a friend ($30 bucks along with his welding helmet, gloves, sticks, brushes, and misc stuff, score!), but I was wondering if its worth trying to learn to stick weld or maybe get into something newer...what is your advice?

[Matt Meiser]

I have the same exact roller. Besides flat stock, you can do 16GA square tubing. I've tried up to 1-1/4" with good results. You can create longer radius bends for gates, tables, etc. The roller does leave some knurled marks in the steel, but you can clean those up with a flap disc or DA sander. It does not crush the tubing.

Here's a pic of a piece of I believe 1" 16GA tubing I rolled. The more pressure, the tighter the radius. The guys on the fourm didn't believe me, so I grabbed a junk piece of square tubing and went to town. I'd love to have a true roll bender, but for smaller work, this will get the job done.

http://www.dmwtech.com/gallery2/v/welding/machines/roller/

How tight of a radius can you get with that?

[David Wambolt]

Stick welding is pretty difficult to learn, but it has it's place. It's great for outdoors, heavy welding, machinery repairs, mobile welding, etc. However if you are a beginner, I'd highly recommend getting into a 180 AMP class MIG machine. This is typically one step above the standard 110V MIG/Flux Core welders. While a 110V welder has the convenience of plugging in most anywhere, it's power output can be limited. That's not saying it can't get the job done, but you'll be welding for a while.

MIG welders come in two flavors. There are transformer MIG machines and then there are inverter MIG machines. Every welder I own is a inverter based machine (Miller Dynasty 300DX, Miller Millermatic 350P, Miller Millermatic Passport), and the nice thing about inverters is the arc quality. It's usually adjustable, meaning you can soften or sharpen the arc to allow the bead to wet out more or less. As you get into higher end machines, the arc quality improves. Transformer machines are much more common and will also get the job done, all day long. I believe inverters are the future (lighter and more energy efficient) while transformers are the workhorses of the industry. Either will do the job in a home shop, but an inverter machine will cost you quite a bit more. In addition, MIG machines come in a couple of flavors. Tapped and fully variable. A tapped machine means that there are a certain number of fixed power output settings. Think of it as the blower switch in an older car. You then have to play around with wire speed to get the arc/weld pool quality you want. The fully variable machines allow you to dial in your weld settings to a finer degree, but it can make finding that sweet spot more difficult for a begginer. I'd recommend a non-tapped machine just as it gives you a bit more flexibility in terms of adjustments.

I started off on a Millermatic 175 which is Miller's entry level 220V machine. It's just been replaced by the Millermatic 180. It was a solid machine and great for pretty much any task around the home. It did have one feature regarding auto wire feed tracking that I didn't like, so I ultimately sold it and upgraded to the Miller 350P. It's an AWESOME machine, but it's also over $3,000.

If you want to learn how to weld, first off try to find someone that knows how to weld. Hopefully you are good friends with them, but if not, pay them a bit of money for some hands on instruction. You can spend a lot of time trying to 'figure it out' when someone can spend an hour giving you the yes and no's of welding. MIG is probably going to be the easiest form of welding to learn and MIG is used all over the world. Most home welders would use a C25 mix of gas, along with roughly a .030 wire size. Different wire (brands) can produce different types of welds. Some wire is better than other. They have wire out that makes the welds easier to grind, etc. MIG does not work outside with the wind blowing though, so keep that in mind. It's best suited to a calm environment, and in a windy situation it will blow the shielding gas away from the weld pool resulting in a substandard, very messy and contaminated weld.

1. Get an entry level 220V welder from Miller, Hobart, HTP, Lincoln.
2. Get a decent auto darkening helmet. Miller, Speedglas, Optrel all make nice helmets. Seeing what you are doing while learning will make the whole process that much easier.
3. Buy gloves, wire, brushes, grinder (I'd get two, one with a standard grinding wheel and one with a lighter grit flap disc for finishing).
4. Welding cart to hold your welder and gas cylinder
5. Bottle of gas. I'd recommend getting an 80CF or larger tank. A 125CF would be a very good size if you plan on welding fairly frequently. A smaller bottle will work if you plan on using the welder once a month for a job here and there. It will last a long time. Rent or buy, it's up to you at your local welding supply.
6. Welding Apron. Protect yourself while welding.
7. Build yourself a small welding table so that you can lay parts directly on the table, clamp or fixture them, and weld. This allows you to ground the table and not the work piece directly which makes working faster, easier, and you're not fighting the ground lead pulling on your work.
8. Test your welds to destruction as you learn. Cut them open, check them with acid if they are critical (search google). Put in a vice and beat the pieces apart. You don't want the weld to just snap off the base material. You want solid penetration in your welds with tearing of the base material. Ideally the weld should be stronger than the base material itself.

[Keith Outten]

How tight of a radius can you get with that?

Matt,

The vendor says it will bend 8" diameter and larger up to 3/8" thick 2" wide flat bar.

I ordered one last night. The next machine up is in the $700.00 range so this is a bargain IMO.

.

[Ted Calver]

David,
Thanks for the great info on how to get started. I've been eyeing the welding machines in the local Northern Tool store but have no clue as to what brand or type of machine to buy. Your post was very helpful.

[David Wambolt]

David,
Thanks for the great info on how to get started. I've been eyeing the welding machines in the local Northern Tool store but have no clue as to what brand or type of machine to buy. Your post was very helpful.
You're welcome Ted. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I've bought over 20k in metal working equipment for my home shop, so I have some buying experience. :)

My advise is, do not buy an off brand welder. Spend a bit more and get a name brand machine. You will find it's easier to get parts and supplies, and support is much better.

Don't forget that the first part of 'project welding' isn't the welding itself. It's the design and cutting of the parts. Many people use abrasive chop saws and those work fine for straight cuts, but are messy and loud, plus leave burrs on the material being cut. A metal cutting bandsaw goes a long way towards making projects much easier. I would recommend a swivel head unit, like this:
http://www.homier.com/detail.asp?SessionKey=Lsp1Gh705wMMFMqUIWB%2feR%2bD DVuR79TVHPd963RKHldLvhQM6DvDsOtHYvwRkV%2bade1Sag%2 bEyh2A&dpt=9&cat=119&sku=03111

I have that exact machine and it was my first bandsaw. I've since upgraded to this:

http://www.ellissaw.com/Band-Saws/3/1600-mitre-band-saw

The smaller saw will allow you to cut miters very easily due to the swivel head. I would not claim it's 100% dead on accurate, but for the price it can't be beat. Grizzly sells the same basic saw for hundreds more. It does not compare to my Ellis, but it was leaps and bounds better than an abrasive saw.

Lastly, being woodworkers, nobody should be shocked by the pricing of materials. It's not cheap either. I enjoy welding and fabricating parts. It's always nice when you need a bracket for something and you just go make the thing. Need a tool cart? No problem. Then you start combining wood and steel to make something very unique. Lots of fun on both sides of the fence.

[Keith Weber]

Eric,

I couldn't possibly top David's advice. That was a very good post. I agree that MIG would probably be the easiest and best way to go. Like anything else, an hour having someone to show you how it's done is worth many hours of trial and error. The auto-darkening helmets like David mentioned are a must so that you can see what you're doing before you start the weld. Many beginning welders build their own welder carts as practice, as well. I oly stick-welded once 27 years ago when I was 13. I think that I spent more time trying to get the rod unstuck than I did laying down a bead. It's handy for farm work, but you'd be much happier with a MIG.

Keith O.

You'll like the range of that ring roller. Have fun! I didn't find that mine left much at all for marks. Anything it did leave easily disappeared with one pass of the wire wheel on the grinder.

David,

I'm impressed with the quality of that tubing bend. I would have expected it to deform the tubing more. I'll have to try that!

Keith W.

[Eric Wong]

Thanks for the advice, David and Keith!
I'm keeping that post on my hard drive for future reference.
Now I just need to find someone to show me the basics!

[Matt Meiser]

The vendor says it will bend 8" diameter and larger up to 3/8" thick 2" wide flat bar.

I ordered one last night. The next machine up is in the $700.00 range so this is a bargain IMO.

I was wondering specifically about bending radius for tubing. I agree on the price. For $700, I'd make one. For the price of the Ebay one, I don't think you could beat it. In fact, once we have our taxes paid and things settle down at work, I'll probably consider one as well. I need some new dust pipe hangers to replace the giant zip ties. :D

[Keith Weber]

I need some new dust pipe hangers to replace the giant zip ties. :D

LOL!!! I'm never going to live this one down, am I? :D

From what I've read on the welding forums, the $769 one from Shop Outfitters is a different machine. Although it has the same performance specs, it weighs about 25 lbs. more than the one I bought. It's apparently made to a much higher quality. The guys I've talked to that bought that one say that it's worth the extra money. That said, these guys were using it in a business on a daily basis. For those of us that are hobbyists, though, that extra $600 is just too much to justify that quality (IMHO).

For those of you that are buying the cheap one, don't forget to grease the bushings, as they came dry and will stick until you work the grease in. You'll have to spin the bushings by hand to get the grease to the bottom. Once they're greased they work fine.

Keith