Plane knowledge needed.

[Mike Heidrick]

So far I have been pretty much a power tool guy. Recently I have been looking more and more at my tools and decided to buy some hand tools.
So I was at a swap meet today and I picked up some planes. I know nothing about planes really. How did I do? What did I get? Any help from the masters??

Scraper says Stanley 80 on it.
Little plane says LS0 or LSO and then a number 1.
Largest plane says Defiance by Stanley and made in USA on front. Everthing works great on it.
One smaller plane says Lakeside on the blade and Made in USA on back. 4C under the blade holder and has a screw down front handle.
The other smaller plane says Sargent 217 New Haven Ct USA on blade, 307/306 under blade holder, Made in USA in front, handle with top screw, and has a nicer srew in back.
Any value guestimates on these? I plan to use these though but just want to know.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/planes1.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/planes2.jpg

[Jim Becker]

I don't know about the planes, but I bought my Stanley #80 in a yard sale for $10 a few years ago.

That little plane is really cute! :)

[Mike Henderson]

The Stanley Defiance was the lower end of the Stanley line. The irons are not the best. You could improve it with a new iron but it might be better in the long run to sell it and buy a older Stanley Bailey. I'm afraid you wouldn't get much for it on eBay - do a search on "completed items" for "Stanley Defiance" and you can see what they sell for.

I don't know anything about the others except the Stanley 80, which should be a good scraper for you as long as the iron is good.

Mike

[Brian Hale]

Hey Mike!

It wans't long ago i tried using hand tools in my work and in the past year i've acquired 11 hand planes, only 3 of which were new. Take that as a word of caution, it's addictive!

As Mike said, the defiance line of Stanley planes were more of a "homeowner" line of tools, not the best quality but quite usable if tuned well. Personally i suggest you replace the blade and chip breaker in the larger plane with a Hock setup (you can get then from Highland Woodworking) and spend some time getting to know how a plane can be used.

As for tuning, put the blade and chip breaker in the plane, retract the blade all the way back and "sand" the bottom till it's flat. Do this with all the planes. This is the most important part of getting a plane into working order. Without a flat sole you'll never get a consistent shaving and you'll give up on the whole concept.

To flatten the sole, i use 80 grit PSA backed paper on a flat surface such as glass, MDF, melamine of any cast iron machine surface. Use a magic marker on the sole so you can check your progress as you work. You'll use a fair amount abrasive and elbow grease but you'll get there eventually.

Get the blade razor sharp and start making shavings. Start out on some well behaved wood like birch or maple, something with straight subtle grain that won't tear out easily.

Don't worry about putting a nice blade in a cheap plane as you'll find the blade can be used in a higher quality Bailey style plane later on if you decide to stick with it. If not, you can sell it for a almost what you paid for it in the classified section.

If you run into trouble, don't give up. Just ask and you'll find plenty of knowledgeable folks here to help you along.

Best of Luck!

Brian :)

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Mike,

The Sargent brand is good but not as known as the Stanleys.

I think the Defiance would be a great plane to practice on as you would not have to worry about it and it would allow you to learn how to take apart and assemble the planes.

Welcome to the slippery slope! I hope you brought your skis.

[James Owen]

So far I have been pretty much a power tool guy. Recently I have been looking more and more at my tools and decided to buy some hand tools.
So I was at a swap meet today and I picked up some planes. I know nothing about planes really. How did I do? What did I get? Any help from the masters??

Scraper says Stanley 80 on it.
Little plane says LS0 or LSO and then a number 1.
Largest plane says Defiance by Stanley and made in USA on front. Everthing works great on it.
One smaller plane says Lakeside on the blade and Made in USA on back. 4C under the blade holder and has a screw down front handle.
The other smaller plane says Sargent 217 New Haven Ct USA on blade, 307/306 under blade holder, Made in USA in front, handle with top screw, and has a nicer srew in back.
Any value guestimates on these? I plan to use these though but just want to know.



Hi Mike,

Nice score! From the pictures, your new toys look like they could use a little TLC, so you might find the following useful:

Here's what I do when I teach plane tune-up classes:


1) Disassemble and inspect the plane. Take everything apart: knob, tote, lever cap, iron, chip breaker, frog, iron adjustment wheel, all screws, as applicable. Inspect for rust, grime, missing parts, damage to parts, etc.


2) Clean everything. Mineral spirits and steel wool/scotchbrite-type pads work well for most cleaning. If the rust is really bad, you can use electrolysis. A brass/bronze toothbrush-sized brush is also handy for getting in to corners and such. I generally don't use a wire wheel because it can damage parts, but that's up to you whether to use one or not.


3) Re-inspect and note any damage, etc., that might have been hidden by rust or grime.


4) Determine whether the frog bosses on the casting are flat and parallel: set the frog on the bosses and try to rock the frog. If it rocks -- doesn't sit flat and square on the bosses -- then either the frog boss(es) on the casting or the bottom of the frog are not flat/parallel. Or both may need work. Use a fine file to make the bosses on the casting flat and parallel, as necessary. Use a light touch here, and try to remove as little metal as is absolutely necessary.


5) Flatten the bottom of the frog, as necessary (see #4, above). Also, use a straight edge to determine whether the iron bedding surface of the frog is flat and parallel. If not, use a file to flatten/make parallel, as necessary. You want the iron to mate tightly and as completely as possible with this surface -- it helps make the iron rigid, reducing chatter. Again, a light touch with the file is best.


6) Inspect the mouth. The forward edge should be flat and square to the sole. If not square it and/or flatten it, as required. This is one place where you really, really want to remove as little metal as is absolutely necessary. The tighter the mouth can be made, the better results -- i.e., less tear-out -- (all other things being equal) you will get when use it as a smoothing plane.


7) Inspect the mating surface of the lever cap. File it square and flat, as necessary. Remove the file marks on a medium and then fine smoothing stone. Lubricate the lever mechanism on the upper end.


8) Inspect the mating surface of the chip breaker. File it square and flat, as necessary. Remove the file marks on a medium and then fine smoothing stone. Polish the upper portion of the leading edge with 400/600 (and higher grits, if you desire) sand paper. The mating surface should completely mate with the iron -- with no gaps. This will help prevent shavings from sticking between the chip breaker and the iron, and jamming your plane. It also makes the iron more rigid and helps prevent chatter. The polished upper leading edge helps move the shavings up and away from the mouth.


9) Inspect the iron. Grind as necessary. The leading edge needs to be square to the sides. Polish the reverse (non-bevel side) of the iron (about 1" to 1½" back from the cutting edge) to a mirror polish. You should be able to see fine details in the reflection. (You normally have to do this only once; subsequent sharpenings/honings will keep it that way.) Then hone the bevel side of the iron progressively up through your finest sharpening stone also to a mirror polish. Add a micro-bevel, if desired.


10) Put a very light coat of oil on all screws and pivot points. Clean and polish the brass iron adjustment wheel, as needed/desired.


11) Make any necessary repairs to the knob and/or tote. Sand off any old nasty finish and refinish the knob and tote with oil, shellac, etc., as needed/desired. I strongly recommend against polyurethane; it looks horrible on wooden plane parts.


12) Reassemble the plane. Withdraw the iron above the level of the sole. You want the plane fully assembled to introduce whatever stresses will be present when planing into the lapping process, so that the sole is flat when the plane is set-up for use. Lap the sides if desired (not really needed for a smoothing plane, unless you're going to use it on a shooting board. If so, then make sure that you lap the sides at exactly a 90° angle to the sole.) Now comes the fun part: lap the sole. Use a known flat surface (float/plate glass, surface plate, etc. Some recommend using the wing of a table saw or one of the tables on a jointer; personally, I cringe at the thought of deliberately introducing grit into fine machinery....) Start with 80 grit and progressively work your way up to 220 grit; don't skip a grit. You can go higher, but once you pass 220, you're just polishing the surface. Water or a light machine oil on the sand paper makes a good lubricant to float the swarf away. How flat is flat? Well, for smoothing planes, the general rule of thumb is "flatter is better." At the least, you want the first 1" or so of the toe, the ½" to 1" in front of the mouth, the ½" to 1" behind the mouth, and the last 1" or so of the heel to be co-planar. Using a permanent marker to mark wavy lines on the sole will help you see your progress. Continue lapping until you have reached the desired level of flatness. This is quite boring, but you need to maintain your attention to the task at hand to do a good job. It may take only a couple of minutes or it may take a couple of hours, depending on what shape the sole of your plane is in and how flat you want it. Use an accurate straight edge to check flatness from toe to heel and from side to side, especially in front of the mouth. Once you have finished lapping the sole, disassemble and clean as necessary. If you used water as the lubricant, make sure that you get all of the water off your plane, to prevent new rust!!


13) Reassemble the plane, and adjust the iron for a light cut. Test your newly-tuned plane on a nice piece of hard wood. You should be able to take nice, full-width, translucent shavings. Enjoy!


There are many different possible sequences to do this; the one listed above is merely the one that I use.

_____


As a general rule, you can expect a well-tuned smoothing plane to put a surface on a piece of wood that is ready to apply finish to. When you look at the surface against a light at a low angle, the surface of the wood should reflect the light like glass, and it should feel almost glass-smooth.

Have fun, and good luck!


James

[Bill Houghton]

I've got a similar one, which I've never used. I think it was a modelmaker's plane, and some people apparently find them useful for minor trimming work. I wouldn't focus my attention on that one first.