How would you do this

[Ed Blough]

I have worked very hard and built five raised panel doors and 14 drawer fronts. Now I need to rout a ogee around the outside edge of each.
My problem, I'm using maple and I don't know if it is wood or what but I have been battling tear out big time. I had to remake many pieces because of it. I don't want to ruin any of the work already done so I pose my question.

To rout these edges would you do it on the router table or would you route the edges using a bearing guided bit and holding the router. The ogee is 5/32 radius so I'm not cutting deep but I still fear tearout.

In the past I have done it both ways and I don't recall which was the best. Also I can't decide on bit speed, it seems if the bit speed is too high any hesitation on my part results in a burn but if I go slow it seems the chance of tear out becomes greater.

Honestly I feel like a deer frozen in headlights over doing this. It has been such a battle to get to this point.

Using a 5/32 Radius ogee bit which method would you use and what speed?

Thanks

[Joe Chritz]

I would climb cut with a feeder but before that I would turn up the speed some and take two cuts. Go easy and keep it moving and it should do ok.

If the roundover bit is well used a nice sharp bit will help.

Joe

[Ed Blough]

I would climb cut with a feeder but before that I would turn up the speed some and take two cuts. Go easy and keep it moving and it should do ok.

If the roundover bit is well used a nice sharp bit will help.

Joe

Joe isn't climb cutting going against the normal feed direction of a router?

I know you said use a feeder but since I don't own one I hestiate to try climb cutting. Also you suggest using two cuts. I have been pondering this, should I set my fence for the final cut and then add a shim, or would it be better to lower the router in the table make a cut then raise it for the final cut?

I have actually experimented with both ways but I'm still getting cuts that are that perfect burnished look you get with cut pine or walnut.

My problem is with using a router table I tend to get more burn marks, than I do with hand held. But with hand held there is a greater chance of leaning the router or messing up a corner. Both seem to produce about the same cut quality which at times is baby bottom smooth and at other times rough almost as if the router chattered.

I guess I'm at the mercy of the grain but I was hoping for a fool proof method that perhps some of you that do this everyday has found to work.

[glenn bradley]

No fool proof method per-se. I would use the router table with the bearing guide and a starter pin (no fence) but, fence use should be OK as well.

Assuming a sharp bit . . Is the tear out along the cut? If so it can indeed be the wood. I've had this experience with oak. Some boards 'blow out' and others behave normally.

If the tear out is at the end of the cut:

- Cut across the grain first. That way the 'with the grain' cut will eliminate the torn corner.
- Use a backer board so the exit point is supported to further eliminate tear out at the exit point.

[Joe Chritz]

Yes climb cutting is against the rotation. Don't do it without a feeder.

A small roundover should not give many problems. That much burning sounds like a feed rate problem or if the unit is reversable (unlikely on a router) the rotation is wrong. Make lots of neat smoke on a shaper. Don't ask.

Raising/lowering the bit or changing the fence in/out does the same thing. If you use a bearing bit then you have to raise it for the last cut.

Maple is funny sometimes. Do some tests on scrap and take several cuts if needed. Very light cuts with a decent feed rate should work well.

Something else I do, which I stole from metalworking is to take the final cut very light as a clean up cut.

Last time I had chip out problems with a roundover was a 1/8 router bit on my shaper. The arbor speed was just to low and by increasing the speed (by going to a handheld router) it took care of the problem. That was also on maple, some soft maple and some hard.

Good luck

Joe

[Curt Harms]

I'd try several passes. Oak can be a splintery pain. The first pass just barely cut, 1/8" or less. Then one or more passes almost to the final depth. Then a shallow final finishing pass. Try this on some scrap and see if it helps. If not, all you're out is the scrap. It's great to be able to do something in one pass if you're a production shop, but for hobbyists like myself, a few extra minutes spent to save damaging a piece on which I've spent a lot of time and materials is time well spent.

HTH

Curt

[Eric Wong]

As others said, make sure you have a really sharp bit. Freshly sharpened or brand new is best. You also might want to have a backup because with maple your bit will dull quickly. I personally would do this in a router table.

I agree with Chris that multiple passes will help keep the tearout to a minimum. Another thing you can try if there is a really gnarly area is to take a very shallow pass after wetting down the surface with a damp rag. Dampen the area, wait about 15-30 seconds, then rout. The water will soften the wood fibers enough that it might help a little with the tearout.

Also, make sure you do your cross-grain routing first, then long-grain. And use a backer board.

[John Lucas]

Something is fishy. This should be an easy cut. Several posters have mentioned sharpeness of bit. I bring that up because it really sounds like you are using an inferior bit. Otherwise, adjust the right height and use fence to set the depth. You can make two passes but you shouldnt have to. And you shouldnt be getting burn marks with any sort of decent speed. Get a new bit and not one from the home centers. You have too uch good wood and your work at stake.

[Pete Brown]

Something is fishy. This should be an easy cut. Several posters have mentioned sharpeness of bit. I bring that up because it really sounds like you are using an inferior bit. Otherwise, adjust the right height and use fence to set the depth. You can make two passes but you shouldnt have to. And you shouldnt be getting burn marks with any sort of decent speed. Get a new bit and not one from the home centers. You have too uch good wood and your work at stake.

I definitely agree. Early on, I got some of my bits at sears or lowes. When I used them, the cut was terrible, even straight out of the box.

Later on I wised up and bought better bits. Those, even after many uses, cut cleaner and smoother than the cheapies.

On the wood: if this is a curly or tiger maple, I can see where the wood might be the problem. If it's a real bad problem, take a few cuts, and before you do the final cut, wet the ogee wood down a bit like you would when planing figured wood (a damp rag, just enough to wet the surface evenly)

Pete

[Ed Blough]

Something is fishy. This should be an easy cut. Several posters have mentioned sharpeness of bit. I bring that up because it really sounds like you are using an inferior bit. Otherwise, adjust the right height and use fence to set the depth. You can make two passes but you shouldnt have to. And you shouldnt be getting burn marks with any sort of decent speed. Get a new bit and not one from the home centers. You have too uch good wood and your work at stake.

Nearly every one said sharp bit and I thought I had a sharp bit. However now that I have tried a real bit I know it is junk. I won't name names but I was going to send it back to the manufacture to see what they say about it but why bother I found my bit manufacturer.

In any case John finally shook me from my slumber and since I live close to Infinity Cutting Tools I figured it was a good time to pay them a visit.

First off David Venditto the president of the company is a really great guy. He took the time to personally give me a tour of their facility. He was willling to show me some their new products they are testing to see if they meet their standards.

He explained his operation to me, told how the bits and other cutters were manufactured and let me take time to examine one of everything he sold. Which is a lot of looking.
I was impressed with their friendliness, their openness, and their knowledge of wood working.

I told him my story about the maple that was tearing out and he got that knowing smile. Then he asked me what shape I was looking for and produced the exact bit I needed. Now get this the bit he recommended was also on overstock sale so it cost a little more than 1/2 the normal price which was far cheaper than the price of the bit I had been using.

Let me tell you I'm sold. I now know what a quality bit is. This thing sliced through the maple taking transparent thin slices (notice I said slices, not chunks or making saw dust). I looked more like something that would come off a plane than off a router.

I did five fairly large doors and 14 drawer fronts to perfection. Doing the same cut using my other two router bits were producing tear out on nearly every board, and a fairly rough finish on all. I will admit one bit was fairly cheap but the other costs nearly three times what I paid for the Infinity bit.

David explained router bit dynamics to me and showed me why his bit would do the job and he was right. Each cut as smooth as a baby's behind and not one tear out. I highly recomment Infinity Cutting Tools.

[Jason Beam]

If it were me, I'd use my table. Put a length of celophane tape on the fence and cut them in multiple passes, say only about 1/16" per pass. Crank that bit all the way up to full speed and don't worry about burning.

After all the passes are done, pull the tape off and run everything through again. This will take of a smidge, and any burn marks you may have. It'll also leave a really clean surface, even in tear-happy woods most of the time.

[Eric Wong]

Thanks for the report on Infinity. I've never used them (although I do have one of the Olsen All-Pro bandsaw blades they sell on thier website). I think I may give them a try the next time SWMBO gives me my allowance.