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Mark Koenig
02-24-2007, 10:00 AM
Epilog Legend 36EXT cost with a 75 Watt Laser??? :rolleyes:

http://www.epiloglaser.com/ext_overview.htm

Wil Lambert
02-24-2007, 10:04 AM
You really need to contact Epilog for a sales rep. The price will vary depending on how you deal with them. It's kind of like a used car salesman.

Wil

Mark Koenig
02-24-2007, 10:49 AM
Have sent all of my information but just wanted to get a ballpark figure +/- $5K...

Thanks Mark...

James Stokes
02-24-2007, 12:06 PM
I would guess around $32,000

Mark Koenig
02-24-2007, 1:02 PM
I would guess around $32,000

Thanks James...

At least now I know that it's in my price range and not getting worked up about nothing...

Just needed an idea before I pursue this venture further...

Take Care, Mark.

P.S. Any other comments are welcome!!!

Joe Pelonio
02-24-2007, 2:02 PM
I would have thought more like $40,000 for 75 watts.

Dave Fifield
02-24-2007, 2:24 PM
It seems like cost rises almost exponentially with power. 45W 36EXT was $26.5K. 60W quote was $33K, so I think Joe's $40K number sounds about right for the 75W version, but even that may be a little low.

Mark Koenig
02-24-2007, 2:34 PM
I would have thought more like $40,000 for 75 watts.

Still in my budget but at the top end... Has anyone bought one with all the "Fu-Fu" options before I start to negotiate???

That thing looks soooo cool and would like to place an order in the next two weeks...

Are there other brands that I should be looking at???

Thanks for your input and advice... Mark.


P.S. My new company is being registered and business licenses are in process... Can't believe it's gone this far but I have a dream
... :rolleyes:

James Stokes
02-24-2007, 3:06 PM
My 100 watt legend was $38,000 new in 2002. The prices have dropped a lot since then. That is why I guessed at $32,000

Shaddy Dedmore
02-24-2007, 3:21 PM
You interested in a used one?
http://www.epiloglaser.com/preowned.htm


Shaddy

Mike Hood
02-24-2007, 4:05 PM
Are there other brands that I should be looking at???

Signwarehouse.com deals the Laserpro line.

The Pinnacle ZX 100W is listed at $39,995, but I'm sure could be had at a much lower price. I'd guess that $30,000-$32,000 pric would be pretty close.

Mike Null
02-24-2007, 5:14 PM
Obviously I would suggest you take a hard look at Trotec. Mine's now 8 months old and performing beautifully. Very fast at 140 inches per second.

Mark Koenig
02-24-2007, 6:19 PM
You interested in a used one?
http://www.epiloglaser.com/preowned.htm


Shaddy

Looking at all optiions... Thanks for the tip...

Mark Koenig
02-24-2007, 6:20 PM
My 100 watt legend was $38,000 new in 2002. The prices have dropped a lot since then. That is why I guessed at $32,000

Do you use the full power often???

Rodne Gold
02-24-2007, 6:21 PM
Why do you need 75w?

Mark Koenig
02-24-2007, 6:24 PM
Why do you need 75w?

That was one of my questions... :confused:

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Stokes
My 100 watt legend was $38,000 new in 2002. The prices have dropped a lot since then. That is why I guessed at $32,000


Do you use the full power often???

Mark Koenig
02-24-2007, 6:26 PM
P.S> Saw some other people’s posts about wishing that they had gotten a higher watt system... I'm here to listen to other people’s experiences before I plunk down a large sum of cash and not get what I need...

Keith Outten
02-24-2007, 6:50 PM
Mark,

Back in October my Epilog sales Rep sent me a price list. The Epilog Legend 36EXT with a 75 Watt tube list price was $41,900.00 and the sale price was $34,650.00
We bought a Xenetech XLT1325-60.

.

Mike Null
02-24-2007, 6:50 PM
I am one who indicated I would have rather had a 60 watt than the 45 I have. It is not because I need more power but the machine is so fast that there are jobs where I have to slow it to 60% to get the depth of engraving I want.

For my kind of work the 45 is entirely adequate but like everybody else I want to push the pedal to the metal.

Keith Outten
02-24-2007, 8:31 PM
Mike is right, with engravers running 120 to 150 IPS the higher speeds require more power or you wasted your money.

Our Xenetech at 150 IPS will fly and at 60 watts we still have to slow the speed down for some jobs.

.

Mark Koenig
02-24-2007, 8:34 PM
Mark,

Back in October my Epilog sales Rep sent me a price list. The Epilog Legend 36EXT with a 75 Watt tube list price was $41,900.00 and the sale price was $34,650.00
We bought a Xenetech XLT1325-60.

.

What features did you like that you decided on theXenetech XLT1325-60???

Need to make a decision in the next two weeks...

Spring Shows are coming soon...

Rodne Gold
02-25-2007, 3:16 AM
Mark , you have to look at your potential market and unless you are doing a serious amount of cutting only , 75w is wasted.
Most engraving jobs can be done with far less wattage at full machine speed .
Full machine speed is often not good regardless of your wattage as you approach the limitations of the motion system rather than hitting a power ceiling. some lasers cannot give good results at full speed so in essence you can never use it for serious work.
Be careful of size too , its a double edged sword in terms of maintaining correct alignment and minimising power drops over the bed. You will often find that at the extremes of the bed , you cant use the same power to process as at the top left and thus have to set an average power/speed that is neither fish not fowl (IE not 100% right for the material at any point)
High power lasers tubes can also cost an arm and a leg to replace or repair and its pretty likely you will not get 2-3yrs uninterupted useage , especially if youy use the laser a lot.
Yeh its nice to have the power , but the cost to laser something is increased substantially too as you have to amortise the cost of your laser over a fixed period. If you and I were doing the same thing in the same time , I could seriously underprice you with a smaller less potent laser due to the fact my capital expense is soo much less.
You would really have to amortise your laser over a 3 yr period at max , so a 35k laser will cost like $1000 a month just to "pay off" , regardless of whether you have work for it or not.

One could buy lets say a 30-35 w laser AND a decent medium scale (1m x 500mm) CnC overhead router/engraver for the same money as a 75 watter and that combo will be WAY more useful and generate more money and allow you to process and combine a ton more materials than a mere laser can.

Look closely at your needs rather than your wants in this regard. If you for example , had to go into a production environment , 2 x lower power lasers would suit your needs far better as you have a backup machine and can almost double production (We run 6 x 30w machines)

Dont be swayed by bells and whistles , stuff like 3d engraving , rubber stamps etc are not money making or really useful features.

Whatever you do buy , the most important thing is service and warrantee - especially on the tube. A Yr's warrantee on the tube is not good enough , 2-3 yr warrantees on the machine , bumber to bumper are what you need. The ability of the provider to ship parts with less than 2 days downtime is of importance.

At the end of it all , it's almost impossible for anyone here to guide you to the best machine without an in depth knowledge of your applications , and to make matters worse , often what you intend to do at first is not what you end up doing with the laser.

I would suggest before you buy anything , to investigate your market and ask yourself some questions
1) Who are my customers
2)Who are my competitors
3) What is my cash flow projection
4) Why would folks use me above anyone else
5) List your top 3 applications
6) How much is it going to cost me to get new customers
7) How much working capital will I need
8) When do I think the laser is going to be generating profits

I think you are jumping in head first with a machine that might be overkill for you.
I am also of the opinion that any one reputable laser in the same power/size/price class is no better than any other , the reputable ones all do more or less the same thing.

James Stokes
02-25-2007, 5:36 AM
I do use the full 100 watts 90% percent of the time. I engrave a lot of stainless and aluminum, a lot of wood products. To get what I need 100 watts works great for me. I allso have a 35 watt machine, it is now used very little. I like the higher power machine.

Keith Outten
02-25-2007, 8:12 AM
What features did you like that you decided on theXenetech XLT1325-60???

Need to make a decision in the next two weeks...

Spring Shows are coming soon...

Mark,

There were lots of features that I liked about the Xenetech machines that swayed our decision to buy the XLT1325-60. Speed was important since we will be using the engraver for Corian door signs and plenty of them. Cutting thicker materials is also a plus, it will cut 1" thick acrylic.

It also has;

Multiple Auto focus options with the ability to choose your focus point on odd shaped materials.
Job Preview with zoom.
The ability to save up to 4 home positions.
Easy cleaning of the optics and mirrors, they all snap in and out of their holders.
Excellent pass through capability, the entire length of the bed.
Adjustable engraving speed from .001 to 150 IPS
On the fly speed and power changes make it easy to tune a job test piece without having to resend the drawing.
Lifetime bearing warranty.
Real time job statistics.
A very large cabinet that provides plenty of room for loading from the top or the front panel.

There are a lot more less technical reasons why I like this machine like the built in light that totally illuminates the bed and the ability to recall any job stored on the host computer right from the engravers touch screen. I could go on but you get the picture, the Xenetech is very rich in features.

Rodne makes some very valid points above, he has more experience than most and you should consider his points carefully. Selecting an engraver can be one of the most difficult jobs because of the number of variables to consider. The type of work you do is just as important as the engravers capability, this is more important when you are going to be depending on just one machine. In many cases you could buy two engravers for the price of one higher powered machine and it would make more sense from a business point of view. Physical space limitations may not allow for multiple machines, one very fast and powerful machine may be the best option.

Take your time and consider all of your options. You will have to live with your decision for a long time so try not to get too tied up in the bells and whistles stuff. Make several lists of what you like, what you don't like, what you need for the work you expect to be doing and what you don't need. In spite of your immediate plans stay open minded about your business plan, many here will tell you that the type of work they planned originally is not even close to what they are doing today. I started out with the idea of engraving pictures on wooden plaques, I can't remember the last time I engraved a picture. For me commercial signs are five times more profitable and I really enjoy sign work.

There are so many really good engraving machines to choose from these days.
Epilog sent me a sample of their Aztec calendar that was amazing.
Trotec sent me a sample that had vector cutting capability I could not believe.
Xenetech seems to be concentrating on the quality of their components, speed and longevity of their machines.
Universal has a reputation for solid machines with a very low number of failures.
...................You get the picture.

Get the longest warranty you can.
Every laser engraver will break down at some point in time, you will need good support.
Don't purchase a machine without knowing the cost to replace the CO2 Tube.

.

Mike Hood
02-25-2007, 10:33 AM
There are so many "common" features that should (or could be) ruled out to find a machine that fits your needs.


Look at the uncommon ones and see what best suits you.
Steppers versus Servos is a fair comparison.
Pass-through is a good trade-off for bed size (if money is tight)
Power is a no-brainer... more is always better (and always more $$$)I dunno about bed size being a double edged sword though. At least with a larger bed you HAVE the option. While you may have to compensate power on the far lower-right to get consistent results... it's very easy. I routinely bump the power (through color selection) on items across the table. Power ramping helps with faster engraving.

You have to sift through the personal opinions of "the one I bought is certainly the best", but there is a TON of good advice on here. Good luck in whatever you purchase.

Larry Bratton
02-25-2007, 6:49 PM
Mark, I noticed today that Epilog has a preowned Legend 75w on their website for $29k and change. I would suspect it has a full warranty. Just FYI.

Jeanette Brewer
02-26-2007, 9:32 AM
Check with your local distributor for pricing but for your reference, if you were in our territory, the price of the EXT (75 watt) would be $34,650.

Mark Koenig
02-27-2007, 7:13 PM
Well, I'm placing my order on the 36 EXT with Double Head Attachment (that's why 75 watts ) on Thursday...

Here we go...:eek:

Rodne Gold
02-28-2007, 12:06 AM
Carefully consider dual heads , it's not a fantastic option.

It halves the laser bed size and power , the alternative to 2 machines is defeated by the fact that if anything goes down , the whole machine is down , alignment issue could be a problem , it's not an easy system to install/uninstall and often the ability to do 2 things at one time is offset by decreases in max speed.
Dual heads can be retrofitted , so why not get the machine as is and decide later if you want to go dual head.

Mark Koenig
02-28-2007, 5:27 PM
Carefully consider dual heads , it's not a fantastic option.

It halves the laser bed size and power , the alternative to 2 machines is defeated by the fact that if anything goes down , the whole machine is down , alignment issue could be a problem , it's not an easy system to install/uninstall and often the ability to do 2 things at one time is offset by decreases in max speed.
Dual heads can be retrofitted , so why not get the machine as is and decide later if you want to go dual head.

The duel head option must be installed at the factory... The bed is 36.0 x 24.0 so I should have plenty of room for two pieces on the table... 75 watts will yield 32.5 at each optic so I assume that I should still have enough power for photo engraving two images on tile and wood...

It's a $2700.00 option that I feel should pay for itself... I might be a bit biased toward multiple spindles since one of my duties at the plant is programming 5-Axis/ 5 spindle CNC Mills... They do have a longer cycle time but the hourly output is far greater than the single spindle machines...

Do you have any time estimates for both scenarios of a single head capable of 75 watts verses a double head at 32.5 watts??? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks Mark of Kudzu Creek Customs...

Mike Mackenzie
02-28-2007, 6:06 PM
Mark,

Keep in mind that with a dual head you are running two of the same graphic you can not run different graphics with each head.

If the dual head is factory installed then how will you be able to take it off if you want to use the whole field or the entire 75 watts?

Mark Koenig
02-28-2007, 8:58 PM
Mark,

Keep in mind that with a dual head you are running two of the same graphic you can not run different graphics with each head.

If the dual head is factory installed then how will you be able to take it off if you want to use the whole field or the entire 75 watts?

The mount is installed at the factory, not the attachment... I understand that the image will be a duplicated but was thinking that the etching productivity will go up by 50% (not double) and could set stops to accurately reload the material if I wanted to cut or separate multiple images... Like in wood...

See here...
http://www.epiloglaser.com/double_head.htm

What do you think???

Mike Mackenzie
02-28-2007, 9:44 PM
Mark,

Yes that is doable as long as they are the same file or graphic.

Dave Jones
02-28-2007, 10:25 PM
Mark, just curious what the size of the objects you plan to engrave will be? Since 2 objects on a 36" bed limits you to 18" each, are the objects you have in mind always 18" or smaller? Or even 24" and smaller? If so, I wonder what the price difference would be between the 36EXT with 75 watts and dual head, vs buying 2 of the Mini-18 or Mini-24 with 35 watts (or even 45 watts).

A couple of advantages with 2 lasers is you can be loading one while the other is engraving, and if one breaks then production is cut in half instead of halted until it is repaired.

Joe Pelonio
03-01-2007, 8:12 AM
One of my wholesale customers paid $40,000 for a used Epilog dual head with 100 watts. That's 50 watts at each head. For 90% of his work the dual heads are a waste, because he does mainly name badges, trophy plates, and individual acrylic awards. The dual heads are great for doing hundreds of identical items, how often do you do that? Whether to pay more for a new dual head depends on what you will be doing. Buying used, as long as it's easily removed and the price is good there's no reason to pass it up just because of that, whether you need it or not.

Allan Wright
03-01-2007, 8:56 AM
If you don't mind used - there's on on ebay. Auction # 270093131715

James Stokes
03-01-2007, 9:39 AM
My Epilog has the dual head option. I do have some jobs I could use it on, but I have not. Most of my jobs each item is differant in some way weather it be sequential numbering or something.